Still Crashing Sonar X2 Repeatedly

Okay, I've been getting a 500 error from the forum server every time I try to post another message on the original thread -- Here: http://forum.cakewalk.com...793650&mpage=1#2798882 -- and btw, the Cakewalk Technical Support email server reported that it was not working -- so here's a new thread with the update: UPDATE: OK, went into Ctl Panel, there were two audio devices already disabled, one for the NVidia card and one by Realtek (on the motherboard).

Looked for conflicts, found one IRQ conflict that had both Universal Audio Device and 'High Definition Audio' both on IRQ 17.

Went into the BIOS and disabled the Realtek there--now it doesn't appear in the Device Manager anymore. NVidia is still present in Device Manager but is disabled.

btw, already checked defrag, 0%. Also went through the Avid list, all taken care of already.

Crashed three times last night, including a first-playthrough-after cold boot, just 30 seconds in. The previous night I worked for a good two hours straight, THEN crashed.

I've been doing a cold restart after every crash, trying to keep from introducing more errors because of not letting Windows clean house.

You could also run Memtest to rule out a RAM problem.

here are his specs (copy pasted from other thread)

i7-3770
8GB RAM
NVIDIA GeForce GT 620
RME Babyface
UAD 2 Quad-core

SW: Win7 Home Premium 64-bit Service Pack 1
Sonar X2 Producer Build 306 [NOTE Mar 3: Now updated to X2a]

In this piece, VST: Zebra2(x64) two instances
PSYN II one instance
UAD 1176LN three instances
UAD Realverb four instances
UAD Pultec one instance
UAD LA2A one instance
Cakewalk Multivoice Chorus/Flanger one instance
Cakewalk Channel Tools one instance

chuckebaby


here are his specs (copy pasted from other thread)

i7-3770
8GB RAM
NVIDIA GeForce GT 620
RME Babyface
UAD 2 Quad-core

SW: Win7 Home Premium 64-bit Service Pack 1
Sonar X2 Producer Build 306 [NOTE Mar 3: Now updated to X2a]

In this piece, VST: Zebra2(x64) two instances
PSYN II one instance
UAD 1176LN three instances
UAD Realverb four instances
UAD Pultec one instance
UAD LA2A one instance
Cakewalk Multivoice Chorus/Flanger one instance
Cakewalk Channel Tools one instance

Thanks - it is certainly helpful to have the mental picture of the system specs.  Many times, the basic specs are most useful for determining and resolving performance issues - in this case it is crashing altogether, so I need the additional info from the original poster, to try to see what is not playing nicely together on his computer.  

Barring a true hardware error, such as memory problems or intermittent disk failures, it would seem that good places to look for resolving this would be: Driver issues, Windows maintenance issues, settings mismatch on sample rate between Sonar and the interface, and/or a USB 2 audio interface having trouble with whatever port it is plugged into.  (possible problem with an individual USB 2 port, or perhaps the interface drivers freaking out to being plugged into a USB 3 port).  

It may be also project-related, such as a third-party plugin, and all of that, but going through that is a separate process, and in addition to reviewing the responses to my earlier questions, and one that mostly involves the original poster wading through things like loading one plugin at a time and such.

So, to the original poster, please review the above, and respond to my earlier request for specific information, so that I can better assist you.


Bob Bone

What happens if you increase buffer size to 256 or 512?

I would suggest you do the following, as a test:

1.  Save off the project, by copying the entire project folder under a new name, as a backup, or to use the newly copied one as a guinea pig for testing purposes.

2.  Try disabling all plugins - I think the keyboard shortcut is 'E', and see if that eliminates the crashing.  If so, then try loading one plug in at a time and running for a while until you find out which one kills it.

Bob Bone

Open your project in safe mode.   Hold shift key when selecting the project.   Try first with all plugins.   See if still crashes.   If so, Try without plugins (still in safe mode).    If doesn't crash, try enabling one at a time until you find culprit.  If it works in safe mode with plugins, not sure what it means but its a start and someone can tell at cakewalk or perhaps in the pdf user guide which is very robust.    

"Hi, if crashing happens repeatedly, ram and power adaptor are often the reason.
350 Watt aso are not strong enough.
Better also stabilized........

Pragi"


True, thanks for the response. In this case, I'm running a Lenovo K430 with a 450W power supply. Crashes don't happen repeatedly, but instead only with Sonar X2a, and these are not system crashes, just sonarpdr.exe itself.

OK,that´s right,
but why so shy in giving detailed  info about when , where , how,
about,why aso.
Is the tomahawk on the warpath ?

The good Charlie ( Chuckebaby) posted your system specs here !?


Peace 
Pragi

Bob,
not possible to say it better,thanks!

Thanks to everyone for the responses,and for your patience! <br>They are appreciated, and I am addressing everything as fast as I can. <br>This is not my day job, so I can only go so fast--yesterday I worked a 15-hour day, and I have another one tomorrow.<br>Believe me when I say that I'm much more frustrated with the slow pace I have no choice about, than all of my helpers put together!<br><br>
Also, I have **attempted** to post roughly TWICE as many responses as you have seen here, but a good 50% of the time, I get a 500 error from the forum server, so that interferes with my ability to respond.<br><br>
Some of you may have missed the original post of info; all of that is here: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2793650&high=
<br><br>
Summary of what has been suggested and the results:<br>
1: make sure you have windows service pack 1 (windows 7) and windows update is current; shut off any virus/malware; shutoff any unnecessary services<br>
---all of these were in place before original post<br><br>
2: make sure you have the latest version of audio drivers for your interface/devices; make sure you have sonar X2a<br>
---Did both of these; Sonar X2a was done two weeks ago, result is no change in crashes. Still crashing sonarpdr.exe, same frequency.<br><br>
3: Some folks recomended updating the bios, however I did not do this. <br>
---I have not done this one. I would expect a bios problem to cause problems with multiple applications, but I'm only *ever* crashing sonarpdr.exe. We may get to this one eventually.<br><br>
4: Did you defrag after installation? It's my first solution, and usually works.<br>
---Drive (very new)reports 0% fragmented, have not done this one.<br><br>
5: Are you exclusively using 64 bit plug ins? I do not own/know all your plugs, but e.g. UAD has only gone 64 bit in the last year.<br>
---I bought only the bundled Sonar X2 plugins, and only UAD plugins within the last 8 weeks. <br>I'm having a very difficult time finding out whether they are 32- or 64-bit, as I can't find this info in the manuals, spec sheets, or online.<br>My current list of UAD being used includes Realverb Pro, UAD 1176N, Fairchild, LA2A, Pultec. Max DSP usage in my meter on the quad card shows 29%<br>My other plugins being used are from the Sonar X2 bundle: Channel Tools, TL-64 Tube Leveler, Multivoice Chorus/Flanger, Sonitus FX Compressor.<br>I have three VST instruments: Zebra2(64-bit), PSYN II, and Cakewalk TTS-1.<br> There are multiple instances of Zebra2 now, but sonarpdr.exe was already crashing repeatedly when I had just one instrument track.<br><br>
I am using LOTS of automations, so to try and remove that I froze all the instrument tracks (rendered to audio), and still experienced exactly the same crashing behavior.<br>I have seen the tip about disabling plugins then putting them back in one by one---I am working my way through this, but since crashes are random and separated by as much as three hours, it's a slow process.<br>In the event that I *ever* get to a confirmed crash-free behavior through this method, I will definitely post that.<br><br>
6: is your interface set up with the latest drivers/set to ASIO ?<br>
---Yes, I have updated the drivers to latest versions, and have been using ASIO since installation/setup. Result: Still crashing.<br><br>
7: Check IRQ sharing, and see what it is shared with<br>
---Looked for conflicts, found one IRQ conflict that had both Universal Audio Device and 'High Definition Audio' both on IRQ 17.<br>
Went into the BIOS and disabled the Realtek there--now it doesn't appear in the Device Manager anymore.<br> NVidia is still present in Device Manager but is disabled.<br>Result: no change in crash behavior. <br>I have had a subsequent tip that disabling Realtek in BIOS was not a good idea.It's been crashing either way, so I don't have a lot of hope there.<br>I never plan to use the Realtek device, so turning it back on in BIOS and Disabled in Device Manager won't cause any problems for how I use the DAW, I just haven't turned it back on yet.<br><br>
8: I'd bump up to Windows pro.<br>
---Haven't done this yet, want to exhaust the less massive options first.<br><br>
9: With all that crashing, you should run a disk scan.<br>
---Did that early on, no problems reported.<br>I do plan to get hold of a S.M.A.R.T. utility and see what turns up there.<br><br>
10:What version of Windows? (7/8/etc)<br>
---Win7 Home Premium, Service Pack 1 <br>
32/64 Windows? <br>
---64-bit <br>
Is Windows up to current maintenance levels?<br>
---Yes. I do all Windows updates.<br>
 What audio interface do you have?<br>
---RME Babyface<br>
For your audio interface, what exact driver version are you using?<br>
---Driver Version 1.0.18.0, by RME, date 12/15/2011, signed by Diplom-Physiker Uwe Kirst<br>
---In Sonar Audio-Driver Settings, I'm showing "ASIO Fireface USB Analog 1 (1)<br>
If your audio interface connects through USB, are you plugged into USB 2 or 3 on your computer? (which one are you plugged into)<br>
---I have been plugged into USB 2 (black, rear panel) all this time. My USB 3 ports are blue, on the front.<br>
Are you using ASIO as your driver mode in Sonar?---Yes<br>
If using ASIO, please provide the settings for: Audio interface: <br>
---Sample Rate 48 kHz <br>
Buffer Size<br>
---128 samples <br>
Sonar: Sample Rate<br>---48 kHz
<br>also what is the total round trip latency showing as?<br>
---7.8 msec, 374 samples. I started off with 64 samples in the "Fireface USB Setting - Buffer Size (Latency) settings, adjusted to 128 after first crashes, no apparent effect, crash behavior unchanged.<br><br>
11:if crashing happens repeatedly, ram and power adaptor are often the reason.
350 Watt aso are not strong enough.<br>
---power supply is 450 watt<br><br>
12: You could also run Memtest to rule out a RAM problem.<br>
---Getting memory utilities this weekend, promise to report results.<br><br>
13:  Save off the project, by copying the entire project folder under a new name, as a backup, or to use the newly copied one as a guinea pig for testing purposes.<br>
Try disabling all plugins - I think the keyboard shortcut is 'E', and see if that eliminates the crashing.  If so, then try loading one plug in at a time and running for a while until you find out which one kills it.<br>
---As stated above, slowly working my way through this.<br>I was already crashing with just one instrument, and two plugins, early on. <br><br>
14: check the Windows Event Viewer for critical errors in the disk sub-system<br>
---No disk errors reported, BUT, did see this under Window Logs-Application:<br><br>
Faulting application name: SONARPDR.exe, version: 19.1.0.351, time stamp: 0x50d0844c<br>
Faulting module name: multivoicechorusflanger.dll, version: 2.0.1.47, time stamp: 0x4d77cb25<br>
Exception code: 0xc000000d<br>
Fault offset: 0x000000000000d9c7<br>
Faulting process id: 0x1008<br>
Faulting application start time: 0x01ce25d99d3016e5<br>
Faulting application path: C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\SONAR X2<br> Producer\SONARPDR.exe<br>
Faulting module path: C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\Shared<br> <b><ul>Plugins\multivoicechorusflanger.dll</b></ul><br><h3>
 
AHA!! NOW WE'RE GETTING SOMEWHERE--EVENT VIEWER, GOOD TIP!!!</h3><br>
Report Id: 1216508c-91d3-11e2-a63e-8c89a5b889f2 <br>
<br><br>
 
Okay, thing is I **have** to have a flanger for this track, capable of a really slow cycle. I will pay for a good one, all recommendations welcome.<br><br>
Judging from the report, I think we have a Sonar X2a bug.<br>Will go looking for a bug reporting channel on Cakewalk website. Again, suggestions welcome.

Great report, and excellent job following up on tips.

 Thanks for the help, bone.
...yes, you spotted my aviation obsession. This is my Internet handle from wayyyyyy back (1990, using XMODEM over phone lines)--tried to get P40Warhawk, but it was already taken! If not Tomahawk, my next option would have been Kittyhawk, also a handsome variant.

I should have thought of Event Viewer for application crashes to begin with, since I've used it for all sorts of problems in the past; just never needed it for audio before.

I did find the "Problem Report Form" page in Cakewalk.com, submitted my results there, including the Event Viewer output, and it generated a ticket code. We'll see what they come up with, if anything.

I will try your flanger suggestions, thank you.

On all my audio software (I'm a long-time Sound Forge user, and started with Cakewalk in version 3 on floppy disk), I like control over as many parameters as possible, no matter how detailed. UAD Realverb Pro gives me 40 tweakable parameters for one reverb patch, for example--lovely.

Are you using the babyface in bus-powered mode?  
If so, try the power adaptor for that.

Okay, I'm declaring victory on this one. Removed the Cakewalk Multivoice Chorus/Flange plugin and replaced it with UAD DM1-L. I've been playing with the track for three days, many many passes through the whole thing, probably 6 hours in Sonar X2a in total, with no crashes in this configuration. Thanks for the tips, which led to the solution!