dubdisciple
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Subsription Model Disturbing Trend
I just noticed that Avid has not gotten in on the subscription model train: I'm sure a pro tools subscription model is on the way if not already. This trend upsets me because the math is strangely similar to the ones crack dealers used to use in the heyday crack dealing. Get the person hooked on a very expensive product by nickel and dimeing them perpetually with the illusion of being affordable. Crack ends up costing more per ounce than regular cocaine but seems "cheaper" because it is sold in smaller increments. Many coke dealers realized this and began converting their powder cocaine to crack.Yes, I know ity is a strange analogy and don't ask how I know so much about crack distribution. As odd as it sounds, it is very similar. Being able to use Avid for $49 sounds good until you add it up long term. After having used Adobe Cloud since inception (had very little choice) I can say with certainty that it does cost me more in the long run. I, like many Adobe users would occasionally skip upgrading because sometimes the upgrade was merely fluff and included stuff I did not need. The cloud model pretty much means you are perpetually upgrading and paying for it whether you want to or not. If you are a person who religiously upgrades every time you do actually save. Otherwise it is similar to the crack model. Every time I check my email another company seems to be testing those wasters. Digital juice, red giant and others are pushing this model and I fear it is only a matter of time before cash strapped music software companies jump in.
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Fog
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Re: Subsription Model Disturbing Trend
2014/08/30 20:38:55
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I won't buy into it. I pay for something I use it outright.. that simple.
much like folk are too lazy to get off their ... to go to the shop for a game , a lot of the time things like steam are more expensive, for say a new game.
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dubdisciple
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Re: Subsription Model Disturbing Trend
2014/08/30 20:56:41
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Fog, I wish I could take your stance because I agree in principal. Unfortunately Adobe made the move of not offering standalone products anymore and have a monopoly on certain products. Premiere is easily replaced. Audition is also easily replaced too. Unfortunately Photoshop does not have a single legit competitor and the only competing products for After Effects are very expensive. Illustrator has inched closer to monopoly too.
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backwoods
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Re: Subsription Model Disturbing Trend
2014/08/30 20:58:30
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More companies that do it the more "acceptable" it becomes too which is annoying.
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Fog
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Re: Subsription Model Disturbing Trend
2014/08/30 21:04:16
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I use corel photo paint x3 and their video studio pro.. not been bothered to update either, and for quick editing .net paint.. but I can see the whole industry standard argument etc.. just I think they will have rivals that aren't pay-per-view as such. I used to use photoshop myself.
much as people go on about uad and things like waves.. I'll stick to fabfilter , psp, izotope :)
I find it , well a privacy issue. where it will get to a point where they will want you to store YOUR work on their servers etc. thats how it seems to be going.. or maybe I read 1984 too much as a kid ;-)
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dubdisciple
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Re: Subsription Model Disturbing Trend
2014/08/30 21:11:58
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Sadly, this gives pirates more incentive to keep doing what they do. Pirates are going to be pirates anyway, but I find some of my colleagues find themselves more open to the concept. I fear all software will move towards online app store to try and combat the fact that it is probably impossible to make any software crack proof.
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dubdisciple
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Re: Subsription Model Disturbing Trend
2014/08/30 21:21:27
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Fog, I find it is easier to get by not using "strandard" products when it comes to audio. i think that does give audio software users an advantage. The best freeware audio apps are actually quite good. For visual apps I find there are far less alternatives and even the few alternatives result in very time consuming workflow issues . A good examples is Blender. If you have the patience, Blender offers 3d modeling and animation, video editing and compositing and even some motion tracking. It is very capable at all of them but the time consumed on workarounds makes it impractical for me to use it for more than just dabbling in 3d. ANother issue with visual software is that collaboration is much harder if using other software. I have used Corel products and they are good but only up to a certain point. Trust me when I say tat Photoshop may have the most stable hold on being a monopoly among professionals.
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cclarry
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Re: Subsription Model Disturbing Trend
2014/08/30 21:55:13
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For the companies the "subscription" model more accurately represents
an "annual income". It is also, more dependable. So, this trend will continue...
Having said that....I don't like it. It's like WUP. It's paying "just in case"
rather then "because"...and eventually the companies will start to take
advantage of that....
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dubdisciple
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Re: Subsription Model Disturbing Trend
2014/08/30 22:16:05
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cclarry
For the companies the "subscription" model more accurately represents
an "annual income". It is also, more dependable. So, this trend will continue...
Having said that....I don't like it. It's like WUP. It's paying "just in case"
rather then "because"...and eventually the companies will start to take
advantage of that....
+1 I really do feel held hostage. For now my red giant stuff works but they have offered an a la carte style system called universe and I fear if it is successful all their software will go that route. From a business sense i do get it because it does generate income less likely to fluctuate. It just sucks for me lol
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AT
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Re: Subsription Model Disturbing Trend
2014/08/30 23:59:16
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I hate subscription. Of course, I hate having my old software going out of date, too. I use MS word 2003 and I guess I need to upgrade to the sub for MS. I didn't do it for Adobe tho since I can't justify $100 a year for the little I use it.
It is good for the companies, and for businesses, but for the individual, not so much. MS Office was how much back in 2003? Imagine paying $1100 for it - over time. Even w/ free storage that is a lot for the single program I use it for.
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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dubdisciple
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Re: Subsription Model Disturbing Trend
2014/08/31 03:00:57
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AT.. have you tried Open or Libre Office? I own MS Office but have not installed because Libre does the trick. Adobe's model does work for individuals if that individual is a working profession l who uses multiple products and/or upgrades regularly.
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Glyn Barnes
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Re: Subsription Model Disturbing Trend
2014/08/31 05:55:29
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I am another that has taken out a subscription with Adobe, I got a new camera an found I needed Lightroom 5 to support it's newer RAW format. The deal does not seem too bad at the moment as I get Photoshop as well fotr under 9 pounds a month. Time will tell!
I was more concerened by Adobe dropping Vista support. Even their converter to make the newer formats backwards compatible needs 7 or 8. That means I am now reluctantly doing my photo work on my DAW, I dont feel inclined to update the other box to Windows 8 at the moment.
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sharke
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Re: Subsription Model Disturbing Trend
2014/08/31 14:02:45
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The trouble with being constantly up to date is that updates frequently break an old trusted workflow that you depend upon, especially if it involves 3rd party extensions or plugins. For instance I depend upon a seamless sync between Outlook 2010 and Google Calendars using Google's own sync tool. When I looked into switching to Office 365 upon its release, it turned out that there was no Google sync tool for that. If I'd upgraded without checking then my whole business setup, which depends on that Outlook/Google sync, would have been unworkable. And Google is frequently changing its API which means that a 3rd party online app I depend on, which interfaces with and extracts data from Google Calendars, suffers from periodic problems unless the author keeps on top of development.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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paulo
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Re: Subsription Model Disturbing Trend
2014/08/31 14:56:56
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As usual, customers have it in their power to put a stop to this. If nobody took up the subscriptions, software companies would soon revert to the old way. but sadly it won't happen because of those that just have to have the latest, greatest version.
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dubdisciple
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Re: Subsription Model Disturbing Trend
2014/08/31 15:00:15
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sharke
The trouble with being constantly up to date is that updates frequently break an old trusted workflow that you depend upon, especially if it involves 3rd party extensions or plugins. For instance I depend upon a seamless sync between Outlook 2010 and Google Calendars using Google's own sync tool. When I looked into switching to Office 365 upon its release, it turned out that there was no Google sync tool for that. If I'd upgraded without checking then my whole business setup, which depends on that Outlook/Google sync, would have been unworkable. And Google is frequently changing its API which means that a 3rd party online app I depend on, which interfaces with and extracts data from Google Calendars, suffers from periodic problems unless the author keeps on top of development.
I know what you mean. I always wait until all my current projects are done and paid for before upgrading because half my plugins stop working every time Adobe updates. Granted, the patches are usually ready within few days but can screw you bigtime if in middle of project
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dubdisciple
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Re: Subsription Model Disturbing Trend
2014/08/31 15:08:19
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paulo
As usual, customers have it in their power to put a stop to this. If nobody took up the subscriptions, software companies would soon revert to the old way. but sadly it won't happen because of those that just have to have the latest, greatest version.
That is a big assumption on your part. Many of us upgrade out of need. If people upgrading because they "have to have latest, gratest version" was so reliable, Adobe would simply have kept status quo and actually made more money. This model actually forces those who would have been fine without upgrade go that route anyway. Even those who have tried to get by with last packaged versions are starting to upgrade because of compatability issues and advances in file formats not supported in old version. Not to mention we are in an industry where collaboration is often necessary.
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Rain
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Re: Subsription Model Disturbing Trend
2014/08/31 15:25:01
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sharke
The trouble with being constantly up to date is that updates frequently break an old trusted workflow that you depend upon, especially if it involves 3rd party extensions or plugins.
This! I committed an error last fall and finally upgraded my OS after 3 years on the original OS I had on my machine. Because I wanted to upgrade certain plug-ins and my old OS wasn't supported. Turns out that, despite being compatible the newer OS, there was quite a drop in performance in Logic. Never again! I intend to keep my next machine completely out of the upgrade loop save for minor updates, even if it eventually means scarifying a few 3rd party plugs. A subscription model would ruin that plan. Did I mention my brother-in-law still runs Pro Tools TDM 6.x on a G4/OS9 in his commercial studio? If it ain't broke...
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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paulo
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Re: Subsription Model Disturbing Trend
2014/08/31 15:26:58
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dubdisciple
paulo
As usual, customers have it in their power to put a stop to this. If nobody took up the subscriptions, software companies would soon revert to the old way. but sadly it won't happen because of those that just have to have the latest, greatest version.
That is a big assumption on your part. Many of us upgrade out of need. If people upgrading because they "have to have latest, gratest version" was so reliable, Adobe would simply have kept status quo and actually made more money. This model actually forces those who would have been fine without upgrade go that route anyway. Even those who have tried to get by with last packaged versions are starting to upgrade because of compatability issues and advances in file formats not supported in old version. Not to mention we are in an industry where collaboration is often necessary.
The point remains that if everybody simply refused to "upgrade" to a subscription version, what would they do ? Same applies to just about any product you care to think of and not just in terms of subscriptions. If people just point blank refused to pay X price for just about whatever product you care to name, the supplier would soon bring the price down as their alternative would be zero sales.
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dubdisciple
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Re: Subsription Model Disturbing Trend
2014/08/31 15:34:08
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In theory a complete boycott would work but that is not what I addressed. I addressed the assumption that those of us using it do so becaus we have to have the latest version. This is simply not true. As for a boycott, I'm not personally in position to pass up money in the hope that everybody joins me. I have had at least 5 assignments for companies this year that required current version of software. I would love to meet the person charismatic enough to get an entire industry to boycott their bread and butter.
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bluzdog
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Re: Subsription Model Disturbing Trend
2014/08/31 15:38:22
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backwoods
More companies that do it the more "acceptable" it becomes too which is annoying.
If consumers don't subscribe it's no longer a viable option. Rocky
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JohnKenn
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Re: Subsription Model Disturbing Trend
2014/08/31 15:45:39
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Yeah, disturbing. If it continues, more and more programs will have cloud only subscriptions that completely control your access and credit card. Like Dub said, try Libre Office. 5 years ago, Libre and the sister Open Office project were a good intended attempt to give a free, open source alternative to MS Office. Was a joke then, but not now. Still has the quirks being worked out, but up and running on my rigs and getting closer to slaying the giant. My old copy of MS Office was cut throated by MS themselves when win 7 was not backwards compatible with their own word processor. The bastards had notifications that they were weeping with compassion with us in every step of the ordeal. Be of great joy however because they fixed the incompatibility problem. Just bring out the credit card and for the right price, all would be bliss. F*** them. Installed Libre Office and missing nothing, although just a lay user. There is the lack of a replacement for MS Outlook. Seems the most popular replacement for Outlook is Mozilla Thunderbird and installing their calendar ap when using Libre or Open Office. http://www.libreoffice.org/ Parallel situation with graphics. Adobe Photoshop is about king of the realm. Open source and free competitor is Gimp, likewise a substandard program 5 years ago but not now. Most of what you could do in Photoshop can be done in Gimp. Excellent program that anyone dealing with graphics should be aware of. http://www.gimp.org/ Now, if someone can come up with an open source Adobe Audition. John
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dubdisciple
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Re: Subsription Model Disturbing Trend
2014/08/31 15:48:34
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An FYI on thunderbird. Mozilla has stopped development on it which makes me hesitant to use. Email programs are often targets for malware and exploits. I would be concerned that a program is abandoned in a world where malware is constantly evolving
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dubdisciple
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Re: Subsription Model Disturbing Trend
2014/08/31 15:50:48
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John..I think Audition may be the easiest one on the list to replace. I have had many jobs where Photoshop was mandatory but have never had a job where Audition was a must. In fact, I only use audition when I am doing small projects mixed in my video editor and have a small change that can be handled by the "edit in audition" feature.
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paulo
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Re: Subsription Model Disturbing Trend
2014/08/31 15:52:51
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dubdisciple
In theory a complete boycott would work but that is not what I addressed. I addressed the assumption that those of us using it do so becaus we have to have the latest version. This is simply not true. As for a boycott, I'm not personally in position to pass up money in the hope that everybody joins me. I have had at least 5 assignments for companies this year that required current version of software. I would love to meet the person charismatic enough to get an entire industry to boycott their bread and butter.
That is the entire problem. There are always those that will cave in for whatever reason (I used the latest versions junkies purely as one example) because they fail to realise who really has the power and suppliers are only too aware of that. I can see why people don't make the stand, it's fear of being the one who gets left behind / misses out in some way. I just wish that for once they would as it would open up a whole new dynamic in the world of supply/demand. Given the power of the www to spread a message quicky, it should be easier than ever.
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dubdisciple
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Re: Subsription Model Disturbing Trend
2014/08/31 16:07:57
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Paulo..I'm still hoping someone will offer an alternative. Monopolies tend to have an advantage in these situations. I recall taking part in a straw poll at convention of various visual media professionals. This included animators, 3d artists, graphic design specialists in film and print, web designers, etc and although we all had different preferences for various software for different tasks like editing and compositing, 100% in attendance used Photoshop.
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JohnKenn
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Re: Subsription Model Disturbing Trend
2014/08/31 16:13:31
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Didn't know Thunderbird stopped development, only that with win 8, I can't reconfigure it to not take emails off the server as you can on win 7 and earlier. This a common complaint.
Have a hard time giving up Audition 1.5, only decent release before Adobe took Syntrillium's Cool Edit Pro and created a bugged, bloated disaster with ver 2 and onward. The version currently in the suite is reported to be a cut down program regressing to SoundBooth level since the thrust of the suite is for graphics, not audio.
Interested to what people are using as a replacement, or not a replacement with the power of earlier Audition releases. I cut my teeth on Cool Edit Pro as my main DAW, so maybe defectively look at Audition 1.5 as the ultimate wav editor.
John
Paulo is right. If the collective could get unified and vote with their wallets, the cloud subscription model would be a forced death, like we have seen in a lesser way by some software companies abandoning Ilock in the face of sanctions.
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dubdisciple
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Re: Subsription Model Disturbing Trend
2014/08/31 16:18:59
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John..another FYI on audition. Most of the upgrades since 1.5 were bloat and arguably some are now but partn of the big chanhe was to maken it Mac compatible too.Tons of things had to be stripped away so they released a very soundbooth like version in CS6. The CC versions are much better but admittedly will not do much more for you in the audio realm. The noise reduction and timestretching features were improved, most improvements are geared towards people using audio for video applications
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Rain
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Re: Subsription Model Disturbing Trend
2014/08/31 16:21:38
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paulo
That is the entire problem. There are always those that will cave in for whatever reason (I used the latest versions junkies purely as one example) because they fail to realise who really has the power and suppliers are only too aware of that. I can see why people don't make the stand, it's fear of being the one who gets left behind / misses out in some way.
Those people account for a fraction of the user base. I'm sure there are plenty of commercial facilities who will gladly opt for the subscription model, cloud storage, the advantages of networking possibilities, pay an extra for training and support and a 24h hotline. We can't expect the big fish to adhere to the smaller fish ethics - their needs and financial means are on a totally different scale. Whether the software companies can survive w/o taking into account the smaller fish is a different question, though. But my guess is that they'll always manage to reel a bunch of them in, if only for the reasons you mention.
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cclarry
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Re: Subsription Model Disturbing Trend
2014/08/31 16:34:46
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paulo
That is the entire problem. There are always those that will cave in for whatever reason (I used the latest versions junkies purely as one example) because they fail to realise who really has the power and suppliers are only too aware of that. I can see why people don't make the stand, it's fear of being the one who gets left behind / misses out in some way. I just wish that for once they would as it would open up a whole new dynamic in the world of supply/demand. Given the power of the www to spread a message quicky, it should be easier than ever.
I've said that exact same thing...and Yep...I make a stand for the "little guy" and am told directly to "shut up"...even though the stand I was making didn't really affect me.. People don't care...they want what they want...and it doesn't matter about anything OR anyone else. As long as they GET WHAT THEY WANT...it's all good. To quote the inimitable Eric Cartman "Screw you guys...I'm goin' home" is their attitude.
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dubdisciple
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Re: Subsription Model Disturbing Trend
2014/08/31 16:39:52
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Larry, I have made an effort to just let you rant without responding but are you seriously going to pop into every thread to give the same rant and then announce you are going to be quiet?
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