timg11
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Syncing Sonar tempo to match external MIDI clock
I have Sonar configured to use external MIDI clock provided by a Korg Kronos. The Kronos generates patterns with its internal Karma system, and I want the M:B:T timing in Sonar to match that used by Karma.
In Sonar, the recording waits (displaying Waiting for Midi Sync) until the pattern starts on the Kronos.
But the timing in Sonar does not match the Kronos. I'm running the Kronos pattern at a tempo of 120, but if the tempo in Sonar is at 90, the metronome and M:B:T ruler will operate at a tempo of 90.
Shouldn't the tempo come from the MIDI clock? As I understand it, a MIDI Clock is related to the tempo as there are 24 MIDI clocks per quarter note. I verified that the MIDI clock generated by the Kronos does follow the tempo. If the Kronos is set to a tempo of 40.0, there is 62mS between clocks. At a 3X tempo of 120.0, there is 20mS between clocks (1/3).
Why is Sonar using the internal tempo when set to external clock? How do I get it to use the MIDI tempo?
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timg11
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Re: Syncing Sonar tempo to match external MIDI clock
2014/01/26 17:10:36
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☄ Helpfulby FrogPrince 2015/11/15 22:01:50
I checked the help file for MIDI Sync with Sonar as a slave. Two things in the help file are questionable: First in step 4 it says "4. Make sure that your MIDI interface is highlighted in the Inputs list, and click OK." The use of "highlighted" is puzzling. Normally, MIDI devices that are checked are active, and those that are not checked are not active. It is possible to left-click on a MIDI interface and it will highlight, but that is a non-persistent setting. The next time the Preferences dialog is opened, the "highlight" is no longer present. I'm assuming that this statement should read "Make sure that your MIDI interface is selected in the Inputs list, and click OK." Second in step 5 it says "Click the Transmit MIDI Sync button  in the Sync module to use the MIDI Sync clock source." The help for the Transmit MIDI Sync button on the Sync Module says "Transmit MIDI Sync to external MIDI devices, such as drum machines, stand-alone MIDI hardware sequencers, and sequencers built into MIDI keyboards (only available when using the Internal or Audio clock)." If Sonar is the slave, the external device is providing the MIDI sync to Sonar, so Sonar will not be sending it to an external device. If step 5 is correct, it is highly non-intuitive, and this section needs a lot of additional explanation. I am assuming that the correct setting in the Sync Module is to set the Sync Type control to "MIDI Sync" and the state of "Transmit MIDI Sync" doesn't matter. I tried clicking it anyway, but the basic problem of Sonar not following the MIDI Sync for tempo still exists.
post edited by timg11 - 2014/01/26 22:08:10
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timg11
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Re: Syncing Sonar tempo to match external MIDI clock
2014/02/01 22:27:06
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☄ Helpfulby FrogPrince 2015/11/15 19:39:48
Has anyone successfully synced Sonar as a slave to an external device providing MIDI sync?
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Jeff Evans
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Re: Syncing Sonar tempo to match external MIDI clock
2014/02/01 22:36:01
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When the DAW is acting as a slave then it must be set to work from the incoming midi clock. Sounds like you have not done that and it is still free running under its own internal sync. Can Sonar slave to midi clock or MTC not sure. If it is MTC then you are not in luck. If it is Midi clock then yes it should work.
Why don't you do this the other way around and make Sonar the master, get it to send Midi clock to the Kronos and put Kronos into slave mode. It still should work as long as Kronos can be put into slave mode that is.
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timg11
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Re: Syncing Sonar tempo to match external MIDI clock
2014/02/02 14:46:50
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☄ Helpfulby FrogPrince 2015/11/15 19:39:30
Sonar is using the incoming MIDI clock. When I press record the time display changes to "Waiting for MIDI Sync" until I start the instrument playing. However the tempo in Sonar is not locked to the MIDI clock.
To test whether Sonar is using the MIDI clock tempo, or its own, I intentionally set the Sonar project tempo to 120, while the MIDI clock tempo is 90.
I record 4 measures of audio based on the pattern from the source keyboard at tempo 90. At the end of the recording, the Now marker is at the start of measure 5, which is where it should be. But the recorded audio clip is about 6 1/3 measures long, which corresponds to the tempo 120 in Sonar. Also the Sonar metronome runs at 120, which shows it is not locked to MIDI sync.
What steps are necessary to get Sonar to use the MIDI clock tempo as the project tempo?
My test demonstrates that they are not locked currently. If I set the tempo in Sonar to match the keyboard, expect it will drift out of sync eventually. Isn't the whole idea of external sync supposed to prevent simply matching the tempo settings and hoping they don't drift too much?
Making Sonar the timing master may be the only solution. It is less convenient, because the tempo for each program is part of the program settings. If the instrument is changed to enable external clock, then the tempo disappears and says EXT. Changing the mode back and forth is inconvenient because it is buried deep in menus.
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Jeff Evans
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Re: Syncing Sonar tempo to match external MIDI clock
2014/02/02 15:14:48
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That is weird regarding incoming midi clock because from where I come from everytime I have told something to lock to incoming midi clock the tempo of the slave device is locked to the tempo of the device sending the midi clock. That is the whole idea of it actually. Anything else is pretty useless. You must be doing something wrong in terms of Sonars incoming midi clock settings. I don't use Sonar so I am not too familiar with all that.
As you say making Sonar the master and Kronos the slave might be the best option. When I was using Sonar BTW (Producer 8.5) and I was trying to do things like this I always found it was better as the master, it did not like being the slave so much.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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WDI
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Re: Syncing Sonar tempo to match external MIDI clock
2014/02/02 15:33:25
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BPM (beats per minute) is midi sync. However, audio is HMS (hours minutes seconds). So if you record 1 minute of audio in Sonar at the start of the timeline it is always going to be 1 minute of audio regardless of what the tempo is set at. If you want the timeline for audio in Sonar to match bars of BPM in Sonar it's probably a lot more intuitive to use Sonar as the master and create your tempos in Sonar and have the Kronos be the slave. This way, your audio in Sonar will look correct in regards to the grid set by BPM.
Another inconvenience of setting Sonar as the slave to midi sync is always having to press play in Sonar to start listening for midi sync. Instead with Sonar set to the master, you can transmit not only the midi sync tempo, but SPP (song position pointer) for Kronos. Your Kronos sequence should follow correctly when starting Sonar in the middle of the song and you will not always be having to press play in Kronos to start listening. One thing to note, you will need to manually set time signatures in Kronos to match the Sonar timeline or again BPM will be off between Sonar and the Kronos.
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SuperG
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Re: Syncing Sonar tempo to match external MIDI clock
2014/02/02 18:33:30
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I've had success syncing to an external keyboard - a Yamaha DGX-230. I did it just for fun. It's been awhile though. Here's the basic setup: On Sonar, make sure transmit midi sync and mtc are on. Most of the fun is on the keyboard side. On the keyboard, I enabled ExtClock, KbdOut, StyleOut, SongOut. The means that the keyboard will follow the midi clock from Sonar, any keys I hit are sent via midi, built-in Songs played on the keyboard are sent as well, and any Style Accompaniments too. The main reason for following Sonar's clock is that data is recorded in Sonar according to it's tempo - not someone else's.. That's not a problem for most performers since this is the normal way of doing things - but not necessarily so for a Digital Piano playing a built-in song file. A Digital Piano can play by itself and doesn't need a clock. If you were to record it playing a song (or accompaniment) on it's own without setting it to use an external clock, Sonar records it at Sonar's own tempo, not the Piano's (which is following its song/accompaniment's embedded tempo). Even if Sonar and the Piano were set to the same tempo value, it will likely drift, and if the tempo's are not the same on both devices, you'll know it. It will sound correct if played back in Sonar at the Sonar's recorded tempo, but since it's not at the midi piece's original tempo, bringing the recorded piece up in the PRV or the Staff view will show the notes at the wrong MBT's. Basically a jumble. The trick is to set the Digital Piano to use an external clock. Simply set Sonar's tempo to the same tempo the Piano would use to play a piece (although you can make it play faster or slower by changing Sonar's tempo - to your taste). Hit record, Wahoo! - you've just made a copy of an internal song. 
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WDI
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Re: Syncing Sonar tempo to match external MIDI clock
2014/02/02 23:51:11
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just curious if got sync working timg11 regardless of which route you went with Sonar as master or slave?
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kzmaier
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Re: Syncing Sonar tempo to match external MIDI clock
2014/02/03 12:21:35
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☄ Helpfulby FrogPrince 2015/11/15 22:04:59
Bump, very good question!!
TimG,
I could not get this to work with a external drum machine (alesis sr16 I think) back in X1. I had to set Sonar's tempo to match drum machine and then nudge the midi data time with the "event" tool (I'm not at my daw, so event tool may be wrong name). I believe I used the same approach as you (Sonar as slave and drum machine as master). I'll try this again on X3 if I can get the time.
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timg11
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Re: Syncing Sonar tempo to match external MIDI clock
2014/02/03 18:24:53
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☄ Helpfulby FrogPrince 2015/11/15 19:38:14
I submitted the question to CW tech support last week, but still no reply. There are two issues:
1) MIDI sync with Sonar as a Slave does not appear to work in the expected manner
2) The help regarding Sonar as a Slave MIDI sync may have an error.
Whether the two are related is still unclear.
I am now experimenting with making the Kronos the slave, and having better luck. I solved the problem of the Kronos desired tempo becoming invisible (replaced with "EXT") by adapting my sysex app to pull the Combi or Program over MIDI, extracting the tempo, and displaying it on the screen.
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JoeyAudioey
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Re: Syncing Sonar tempo to match external MIDI clock
2014/11/17 15:33:50
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Wouldn't you know it? Communication is a beautiful thing. The help documentation for SONAR X2 and SONAR X3 have been updated to be more clear and accurate. Thank you for pointing this out!
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konradh
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Re: Syncing Sonar tempo to match external MIDI clock
2014/11/17 15:47:03
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FYI, I used to syn Sonar to an external VS-1680 all the time with Sonar as the slave to the external unit. I would have to go back and recall how I did it, but to answer your question, "Yes, I've done it and it is possible." If you don't have this working, I will go back and see if I can recall how I did it.
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scook
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Re: Syncing Sonar tempo to match external MIDI clock
2014/11/17 15:59:43
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timg11
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Re: Syncing Sonar tempo to match external MIDI clock
2014/12/22 19:05:28
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☄ Helpfulby FrogPrince 2015/11/15 19:31:20
I keep coming back to this hoping I can figure it out and make MIDI Sync work again. I know I was able to sync Cakewalk to an external tempo source in the past - it may have been Sonar or even Cakewalk Pro Audio. I'm not sure if something has changed and there is some new setting required that I don't understand, or whether the entire "sync to MIDI" functionality is broken. It seems to me that if Sonar is syncing to MIDI clock, then the tempo must be determined by that MIDI clock. Under Settings / Project / Clock, I can choose ticks per quarter note. The default is 960. So if the MIDI clock is ticking at 960/sec, that is a tempo of 60 bpm. If my external device slows the clock down to 480 clocks/sec, the tempo is now 30 bpm. So why is the "Tempo" setting in Sonar still available when I'm using an external source for that tempo? What does it mean to set the Tempo in Sonar to 70, when the external tempo sync source that is driving it is running at 60 or 30bpm? It seems that the "Tempo" field should not be manually changeable by the user when in MIDI sync mode. Rather, it should display the tempo computed by measuring the MIDI clock provided from the external device, and Sonar should be following the MIDI clock, beat by beat. If it doesn't do that, then what is the meaning of "MIDI Sync"? (PS - for some reason this most recent post to the thread has been inserted at the top, rather than at the bottom - I don't know why. Please read the rest of the thread for context)
post edited by timg11 - 2014/12/24 10:28:16
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WilliamHenley
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Re: Syncing Sonar tempo to match external MIDI clock
2015/05/27 22:00:50
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☄ Helpfulby FrogPrince 2015/11/15 19:32:19
It's truly SAD that Sonar X3 cannot be slaved in regards to MIDI Clock Sync. I'm having the EXACT SAME ISSUE with my Korg PA800! Kontakt 5 is happy to oblige. This is a CAKEWALK SONAR FLAW, pure and simple. I'm also able to sync Ableton LE with my Pa800 so the issue is definitely SONAR. I've been getting the Platinum Upgrade Adds in every social media tool I use. MIDI SYNC is BASIC Stuff, not rocket science. I've not gotten so much as a reply from Support! This needs to be addressed. I didn't purchase X3 under the premise that I had to slave my entire studio to Sonar. I purchased it based on Cakewalk advertised specifications, which Sonar X3 (at least) does not comply. "No Returns on Software", what a load of crap when what you purchase is based on the seller's specifications. Thanks to all on this thread who are trying to help! I guess I've vented now so I'll shut up. If anyone cracks this "ball bearing type" non compliance issue, please share your success. If I have success on the" Refund Topic" I'll share as well.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re: Syncing Sonar tempo to match external MIDI clock
2015/05/28 00:50:14
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I'm not sure of the cause of your issue but it is definitely possible to slave Sonar to external equipment. I do that myself regularly, mainly with a couple of drum machines. Here's my sequence - Open Preferences--->Project--->Clock and set to "MIDI sync"
- Press play in Sonar. At this stage the transport message will read "Press<Esc> to cancel. Waiting for MIDI Sync"
- Press start or play on an external device. Sonar should start, or does here anyway.
Does that not work for you?
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Mystic38
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Re: Syncing Sonar tempo to match external MIDI clock
2015/05/28 17:45:13
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This is absolutely not the case, I do this regularly to transfer data from a Fantom G to Sonar.. The instructions by FBB above are exactly what is needed to setup Sonar for this, however note that this is a necessary but insufficient set of steps to make your setup work as the sequencer on the master unit also needs to be setup to be a midi master, to send midi clock and also to send midi sync.. in the case of the Roland Fantom and other Roland gear this is three different settings. WilliamHenley
It's truly SAD that Sonar X3 cannot be slaved in regards to MIDI Clock Sync. I'm having the EXACT SAME ISSUE with my Korg PA800! Kontakt 5 is happy to oblige. This is a CAKEWALK SONAR FLAW, pure and simple. I'm also able to sync Ableton LE with my Pa800 so the issue is definitely SONAR. I've been getting the Platinum Upgrade Adds in every social media tool I use. MIDI SYNC is BASIC Stuff, not rocket science. I've not gotten so much as a reply from Support! This needs to be addressed. I didn't purchase X3 under the premise that I had to slave my entire studio to Sonar. I purchased it based on Cakewalk advertised specifications, which Sonar X3 (at least) does not comply. "No Returns on Software", what a load of crap when what you purchase is based on the seller's specifications. Thanks to all on this thread who are trying to help! I guess I've vented now so I'll shut up. If anyone cracks this "ball bearing type" non compliance issue, please share your success. If I have success on the" Refund Topic" I'll share as well.
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Anderton
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Re: Syncing Sonar tempo to match external MIDI clock
2015/05/28 22:46:02
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I can also vouch that SONAR syncs to external clock...I've done it with everything from another computer to a Korg M3.
But as pointed out in the previous post, the device transmitting has to be set up correctly for whatever is synching to it. For example some MIDI masters have options for sending just MIDI clock, MIDI clock+start/stop commands, song position pointer, etc.
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Brando
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Re: Syncing Sonar tempo to match external MIDI clock
2015/07/24 12:14:07
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Anderton
I can also vouch that SONAR syncs to external clock...I've done it with everything from another computer to a Korg M3.
But as pointed out in the previous post, the device transmitting has to be set up correctly for whatever is synching to it. For example some MIDI masters have options for sending just MIDI clock, MIDI clock+start/stop commands, song position pointer, etc.
FastBikerBoy
I'm not sure of the cause of your issue but it is definitely possible to slave Sonar to external equipment. I do that myself regularly, mainly with a couple of drum machines.
Here's my sequence
- Open Preferences--->Project--->Clock and set to "MIDI sync"
- Press play in Sonar. At this stage the transport message will read "Press<Esc> to cancel. Waiting for MIDI Sync"
- Press start or play on an external device. Sonar should start, or does here anyway.
Does that not work for you?
FBB - Does this also work for Tempo changes from the master device? I can't get Platinum to follow a tempo change, (albeit in a 'McGyver'd' setup). SONAR starts and syncs correctly, but won't change tempo, which sounds like the issue the OP was having. I am just running some experiments now trying to get Midi-OX to transmit Midi Sync to SONAR so I can trial making tempo change adjustments in SONAR to see how it performs. I am looking to buy or build a box for live Tempo adjustment of SONAR (or another DAW, using an encoder or fader). This seems to be the case for both Midi Sync and MTC/SMPTE, but it may be a limitation of Midi Ox. I just don't want to invest in something specifically for Tempo Control if SONAR can't do what I need it to do. Just looking for confirmation that current version SONAR responds to Tempo Change from a master device when configured to work as a MIDI slave - It's quite possible my little experiment isn't real life capable. Thanks!
Brando
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Brando
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Re: Syncing Sonar tempo to match external MIDI clock
2015/07/24 12:24:38
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Brando
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Anderton
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Re: Syncing Sonar tempo to match external MIDI clock
2015/07/25 14:50:54
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Well since this zombie thread has re-surfaced, a slightly on-topic point that I don't recall being mentioned is that MIDI clock and MIDI stop/start commands are different animals. You can cause SONAR to start from a master, but unless the master is also transmitting MIDI clock (and of course, SONAR is set up to receive it), the tempos won't sync.
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Brando
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Re: Syncing Sonar tempo to match external MIDI clock
2015/07/25 16:13:02
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ose Anderton
Well since this zombie thread has re-surfaced, a slightly on-topic point that I don't recall being mentioned is that MIDI clock and MIDI stop/start commands are different animals. You can cause SONAR to start from a master, but unless the master is also transmitting MIDI clock (and of course, SONAR is set up to receive it), the tempos won't sync.
Midi-Ox is (supposed to be) transmitting Midi Clock. Since my post above I've tried a couple of other software app freebies that also (are supposed to) transmit Midi Clock, including this one: http://www.softpedia.com/get/Desktop-Enhancements/Clocks-Time-Management/MIDICLOCK.shtmlI have tried every possible permutation in Platinum, and both virtual midi loop and hardware (via 5 pin DIN i'Face). Each time, SONAR waits for the Midi Sync signal from the master app, then begins when I start the Clock in the app, stops when I stop the Clock in the app, but at no time does it attempt to lock to Tempo - SONAR continues to play to, and display, its own Tempo no matter what the Clock application is sending to it. I just downloaded the trial of Timelord MTC, and also Reaper - thinking I would try a SMPTE/MTC approach via software in the former, and the same Midi Clock apps in Reaper. I recognize there could be some (!!) flaws in my little experiments - however the whole objective is to find out if Midi Sync (via Midi Clock) actually controls Tempo when SONAR is configured as slave. I am trying to figure out if I should invest either time or money (likely both) in a solution that would give me a hardware Master Clock whose tempo SONAR would follow. If you (or FBB, or whoever) can tell me with reasonable certainty that current (SPlat) SONAR does sync Tempo when configured as a slave to a (hardware) MIDI Clock I'll bite and look at my best options. So far I am considering everything from very pricey standalone master clocks to a DIY Arduino-based solution. (EDIT) - I should add, that FBB's instructions from above: FastBikerBoy
- Open Preferences--->Project--->Clock and set to "MIDI sync"
- Press play in Sonar. At this stage the transport message will read "Press<Esc> to cancel. Waiting for MIDI Sync"
- Press start or play on an external device. Sonar should start, or does here anyway.
Does that not work for you?
Work fine - but that's all I get. My question is - if you change the tempo on your hardware device - in FBB's case, his drum machine (if it is capable of controlling tempo as Master), in the same configuration (SONAR as slave, DM as master), does SONAR follow tempo? Thanks,
post edited by Brando - 2015/07/25 17:21:10
Brando
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Brando
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Re: Syncing Sonar tempo to match external MIDI clock
2015/07/26 11:54:46
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FWIW, Reaper responds to midi clock tempo changes (must be set up as SPP in Reaper - song position pointer)- when sending midi clock from the midi clock app referenced above. The bpm display in Reaper doesn't update but the tempo clearly changes. However it sounds like crap in doing so. Reaper doesn't appear to be well equipped for the task (several forum posts allude to issues when syncing to midi clock), but it does tell me the Midi Clock app is outputting more than just start/stop and that SONAR (unless someone tells me different) is just not responding to tempo changes. I think I'll try the demo of Ableton Live but was really hoping to just get a definitive answer for Platinum.
Brando
Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
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FastBikerBoy
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Re: Syncing Sonar tempo to match external MIDI clock
2015/07/28 05:26:34
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Brando
Anderton
I can also vouch that SONAR syncs to external clock...I've done it with everything from another computer to a Korg M3.
But as pointed out in the previous post, the device transmitting has to be set up correctly for whatever is synching to it. For example some MIDI masters have options for sending just MIDI clock, MIDI clock+start/stop commands, song position pointer, etc.
FastBikerBoy
I'm not sure of the cause of your issue but it is definitely possible to slave Sonar to external equipment. I do that myself regularly, mainly with a couple of drum machines.
Here's my sequence
- Open Preferences--->Project--->Clock and set to "MIDI sync"
- Press play in Sonar. At this stage the transport message will read "Press<Esc> to cancel. Waiting for MIDI Sync"
- Press start or play on an external device. Sonar should start, or does here anyway.
Does that not work for you?
FBB - Does this also work for Tempo changes from the master device? I can't get Platinum to follow a tempo change, (albeit in a 'McGyver'd' setup). SONAR starts and syncs correctly, but won't change tempo, which sounds like the issue the OP was having.
I am just running some experiments now trying to get Midi-OX to transmit Midi Sync to SONAR so I can trial making tempo change adjustments in SONAR to see how it performs. I am looking to buy or build a box for live Tempo adjustment of SONAR (or another DAW, using an encoder or fader).
This seems to be the case for both Midi Sync and MTC/SMPTE, but it may be a limitation of Midi Ox. I just don't want to invest in something specifically for Tempo Control if SONAR can't do what I need it to do.
Just looking for confirmation that current version SONAR responds to Tempo Change from a master device when configured to work as a MIDI slave - It's quite possible my little experiment isn't real life capable.
Thanks!
Yes. Sonar is following tempo changes here okay but I have noticed that the metronome will follow the project tempo regardless of actual tempo as dictated by the external device. Sonar doesn't record those tempo changes either.
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Brando
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Re: Syncing Sonar tempo to match external MIDI clock
2015/07/28 07:45:03
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FastBikerBoy
Brando
Anderton
I can also vouch that SONAR syncs to external clock...I've done it with everything from another computer to a Korg M3.
But as pointed out in the previous post, the device transmitting has to be set up correctly for whatever is synching to it. For example some MIDI masters have options for sending just MIDI clock, MIDI clock+start/stop commands, song position pointer, etc.
FastBikerBoy
I'm not sure of the cause of your issue but it is definitely possible to slave Sonar to external equipment. I do that myself regularly, mainly with a couple of drum machines.
Here's my sequence
- Open Preferences--->Project--->Clock and set to "MIDI sync"
- Press play in Sonar. At this stage the transport message will read "Press<Esc> to cancel. Waiting for MIDI Sync"
- Press start or play on an external device. Sonar should start, or does here anyway.
Does that not work for you?
FBB - Does this also work for Tempo changes from the master device? I can't get Platinum to follow a tempo change, (albeit in a 'McGyver'd' setup). SONAR starts and syncs correctly, but won't change tempo, which sounds like the issue the OP was having.
I am just running some experiments now trying to get Midi-OX to transmit Midi Sync to SONAR so I can trial making tempo change adjustments in SONAR to see how it performs. I am looking to buy or build a box for live Tempo adjustment of SONAR (or another DAW, using an encoder or fader).
This seems to be the case for both Midi Sync and MTC/SMPTE, but it may be a limitation of Midi Ox. I just don't want to invest in something specifically for Tempo Control if SONAR can't do what I need it to do.
Just looking for confirmation that current version SONAR responds to Tempo Change from a master device when configured to work as a MIDI slave - It's quite possible my little experiment isn't real life capable.
Thanks!
Yes. Sonar is following tempo changes here okay but I have noticed that the metronome will follow the project tempo regardless of actual tempo as dictated by the external device.
Sonar doesn't record those tempo changes either.
Hi Karl - thanks for the reply and the confirmation that it works. I really appreciate it. Not too concerned about the metronome specifically. I think I'll look for hardware clock options that I can try/return if they don't work, although the Arduino seems like a lot more fun. Thanks again Karl best regards,
Brando
Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
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FrogPrince
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Re: Syncing Sonar tempo to match external MIDI clock
2015/11/15 17:26:49
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I just figured I would come chime in here on this thread. For those who doubt and want to defend Sonar as a good midi sequencer...  Sonar is NOT following midi sync correctly. How can I say this? Because I wrote my own midi sync source using nAudio and c#. My source plays Yamaha style files. The START (0xFA), STOP (0xFC) and CONTINUE (0xFB) events function correctly, but the clock event (0xF8) is *NOT* implemented correctly, and, as everyone on this thread has already stated repeatedly, Sonar is basically ignoring the clock events and using it's own internal clock for the timing of the midi events themselves (regarding beats and measures). How do we know this? A simple look at the Piano Roll reveals all (as the timing is very clearly not synced). The best test is to make no manual attempt to synchronize the tempos between the source and the Sonar project. In fact, make them wildly different, just to illustrate the point. The tempo in Sonar should have no impact on anything. In fact, in slave mode, it should be greyed out. But then the developers stand up and say "Not so! The midi clock events are NOT being ignored!". =) Well... this is true. So long as I leave my Sonar sequence in slave mode for the rest of all time, all "appears" well with the world. I struggle to understand why I would want to do this, though, since I can't quantize anything in Sonar this way, but Sonar does drive playback and recording from the external clock events with each recording pass. But... with just a little extra attention to detail, the implementation could have been written to line up the notes to beats. Why would we want to do this? So that we could eventually cut out the external clock and run strictly with our sequence as it exists in Sonar. It is truly sad to see midi being treated as some kind of inconvenient afterthought by Cakewalk. So then... in this experiment of mine, what is my "control"? To what can I compare Sonar to show that they are doing it wrong and someone else is doing it right? Well... believe it or not, I'm the last kid on the block that is running Windows 7 32 BIT expressly for the purpose of continuing to run Cakewalk 3.0. And miracle of miracles, when I conduct my exact same test with Cakewalk 3.0, it works, and all of my drum beat notes are nicely lined up on the beats. I turn off the midi sync and run the sequence and I am golden for coming in and laying in some additional tracks in Cakewalk itself (and being able to quantize later). Now... I realize that Cakewalk 3.0 may represent the last time that cool kids actually worked at Cakewalk... and judging from the complete lack of follow up on that EXCELLENT midi equivalent of notepad, we might assume that the cool kids left the company and didn't leave any backups of their source code. However... if this is not the case, it seems to me that the current developers could go dig up the old code and find out what the old timers had done right. Just from reading the comments on this thread, it shouldn't be confusing what people want it to actually do, and there is no really good defense for why it doesn't.
post edited by FrogPrince - 2015/11/15 21:56:55
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FrogPrince
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Re: Syncing Sonar tempo to match external MIDI clock
2015/11/15 21:37:41
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So... before I wandered over to the bug submission form, I thought I would give them the benefit of the doubt. For others following this thread, I started out with Sonar 21.1.0.5 I just patched up to 21.9.0.40 and this bug persists. For the fellow who called this a zombie thread, the reason it doesn't seem to want to go away is because there is actually a bug in the software (that also doesn't seem to want to go away)  , and reciting very basic midi clock configuration instructions and making comments such as "well, don't do it the way that should work but doesn't work right... make everything slave to Sonar instead" aren't helpful, and in fact off-topic for this thread... but I'll hop over to the bug submission form to continue this conversation.
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Brando
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Re: Syncing Sonar tempo to match external MIDI clock
2015/11/15 22:20:26
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I know people say they have this working correctly but I can't for the life of me get it to work. I bought a (hardware) midi clock expressly for trying to control tempo in sonar but can't get sonar to slave to midi clock. Thanks for generating a problem report.
Brando
Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
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tenfoot
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Re: Syncing Sonar tempo to match external MIDI clock
2015/11/16 05:26:55
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In my experience, just as someone else mentioned, sonar will follow midi clock once set up correctly, but only for a single star/stop event. It will then, more often than not, give an audio engine stop error. It will stay in Sync as well as any other daw as long as it is left playing.
Ableton live, on the other hand, will sync to the same midi clock, and stop/restart with any new midi stop start event - just as midi clock should. Sonar coud certainly use a litle tweaking in this area.
Bruce. Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
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