Synth notes staying on after stopping - Did we ever figure out a resolution?

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JoshWolfer
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2011/07/08 02:57:49 (permalink)

Synth notes staying on after stopping - Did we ever figure out a resolution?

I've just started using NI Reaktor  / Razor and now it's happening to me :(.

whatever note was playing during the playback will continue after stopping. I need Sonar to send midi note offs when I hit stop. 


I know there was a big thread on this before, but I just went 6 levels deep and couldn't find it. 

Cheers!

Josh Wolfer - Big Dumb Monkey Productions - www.bigdumbmonkey.com (Twitter @bigdumbmonkeyp)
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    djjhart@aol.com
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    Re:Synth notes staying on after stopping - Did we ever figure out a resolution? 2011/07/08 10:17:57 (permalink)
    Hey Josh . I posted 3 post's to this same issue with Zero response from anyone.. 
     Quick question are you on 64 bit Os ,( I would assume you are )  Cause my 32 bit Os dose not see this behavior at all.. 64 bit seems to be very flaky more so than 32 bit..!  I also had 3 crashes last night while working in 64 bit, I havn't had a random crash with 32 bit in along time.. Yesterday I was using the undo Cntl Z option and Bang Crashola! 
     VERY VERY VERY FALKY 64 bit is.. Here's one of my post's
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2341286

    post edited by djjhart@aol.com - 2011/07/08 11:40:42

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    djjhart@aol.com
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    Re:Synth notes staying on after stopping - Did we ever figure out a resolution? 2011/07/08 10:21:38 (permalink)
    I know there was a big thread on this before, but I just went 6 levels deep and couldn't find it. 




    Cakewalk needs to do something with there search engine, its so bad, you can never find anything while using there search engine.. Your better off using Google I found..



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    Twigman
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    Re:Synth notes staying on after stopping - Did we ever figure out a resolution? 2011/07/08 10:32:02 (permalink)
    I was told by a VSTi developer a couple of years ago that on 'Stop' Sonar sends midi 'All Notes Off' messages.
    From what I am told many other DAWs do not.
    The others send individual 'NoteOff' commands to stop currently sounding notes.
    The VSTi developer told me (and it was true of his commercial product then) that many VSTi soft synths do not include a response to 'AllNotesOff' as most DAWs send individual NoteOff messages anyway......


    just a theory

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    rainmaker1011
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    Re:Synth notes staying on after stopping - Did we ever figure out a resolution? 2011/07/08 11:32:37 (permalink)
    I have the same problem with NI Scarbee Vintage Keys. I have discussed this with CW support via email, they advised me some things but it did not help. The last advice I am about to try has something to do with Audio interface, but I am skeptic with this one.

    If it is true what you are saying Twigman, I think CW should seriously look into this. I can imagine there are hundreds of Sonar users who are affected with this "issue" (bug). However, maybe some of them have learned to live with it.

    I tried the same VSTi in Reaper and did not have the problem at all. So it must be related to Sonar.

    For me, "Zero controller values when playback stops" option is very, very unpredictable. (politely said)...

    Best Regards,  
    Marek

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    Twigman
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    Re:Synth notes staying on after stopping - Did we ever figure out a resolution? 2011/07/08 11:45:21 (permalink)
    rainmaker1011


    So it must be related to Sonar.

    Not necessarily - I got the VSTi developer to include a response to AllNotesOff in his VSTi and it works now.

    Hardware synths all respond to AllNotesOff - AllNotesOff is the most efficient way to handle the Stop button as it uses less bandwidth than multiple NoteOff messages.

    it is the VSTis that need to be edited to include the response to AllNotesOff

    Some already do.
    Many don't.


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    thefyn
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    Re:Synth notes staying on after stopping - Did we ever figure out a resolution? 2011/07/08 11:48:07 (permalink)
    Still happens to me with Razor Win 7 64 using 32 bit X1
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    Rodab
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    Re:Synth notes staying on after stopping - Did we ever figure out a resolution? 2011/07/08 14:52:38 (permalink)
    When it has happened I just click the restart audio engine button and it stops the synth.

    It seems like 64bit plugins are the cause of most of my issues with sonar.  And the same thing happens with other daws when trying to run 64bit.  I get crashes all the time.
    post edited by Rodab - 2011/07/08 14:53:44
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    rainmaker1011
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    Re:Synth notes staying on after stopping - Did we ever figure out a resolution? 2011/07/08 15:32:52 (permalink)
    Twigman


    rainmaker1011


    So it must be related to Sonar.

    Not necessarily - I got the VSTi developer to include a response to AllNotesOff in his VSTi and it works now.

    Hardware synths all respond to AllNotesOff - AllNotesOff is the most efficient way to handle the Stop button as it uses less bandwidth than multiple NoteOff messages.

    it is the VSTis that need to be edited to include the response to AllNotesOff

    Some already do.
    Many don't.


    Sure, VSTi developers can edit their products, but how many VSTi synts are there? Hundreds. One change in a single DAW would solve hundreds of issues :) I am wondering if AllNotesOff message can co-exist with NoteOff message, so that Sonar would become flexible enough to handle all kinds of VSTis...

    It would be great if someone from CW chimed in...


    Best Regards,  
    Marek

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    cyphersuit
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    Re:Synth notes staying on after stopping - Did we ever figure out a resolution? 2011/07/08 18:51:38 (permalink)
    Sonar also is not working properly with:

    TAL Noizemaker (64 bit)
    Sugar Bytes Turnado (64 bit) (green effect group in dictator mode)

    Also ElectraX from Tone2 did not play nice until they included a a response to AllNotesOff.
    #10
    JoshWolfer
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    Re:Synth notes staying on after stopping - Did we ever figure out a resolution? 2011/07/08 18:57:55 (permalink)
    yeah, I'm using all 64bit. I don't even install the 32bit versions. 

    Meh =(

    Thanks guys,

    Josh Wolfer - Big Dumb Monkey Productions - www.bigdumbmonkey.com (Twitter @bigdumbmonkeyp)
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    JoshWolfer
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    Re:Synth notes staying on after stopping - Did we ever figure out a resolution? 2011/07/08 19:01:01 (permalink)
    If it's that common, Sonar should support an advanced option to overried all notes off with individual note offs.

    Josh Wolfer - Big Dumb Monkey Productions - www.bigdumbmonkey.com (Twitter @bigdumbmonkeyp)
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    cyphersuit
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    Re:Synth notes staying on after stopping - Did we ever figure out a resolution? 2011/07/08 20:08:12 (permalink)
    i really need this to be fixed with X1C. I've had enough disheartening moments with synths and effects not working properly in X1 :(


    #13
    JoshWolfer
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    Re:Synth notes staying on after stopping - Did we ever figure out a resolution? 2011/07/09 00:37:40 (permalink)
    I filed a formal bug. I'll let you know what they say. I've had fairly good times with support. 

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    cyphersuit
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    Re:Synth notes staying on after stopping - Did we ever figure out a resolution? 2011/07/11 07:09:06 (permalink)
    after talking to sugar-bytes we can put turnado off of the list. the behaviour is correct. there is even a hidden option, to make turnado stop after pressign stop on the transport.

    Josh, did you add all the other vsts in your bug report?
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    wetdentist
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    Re:Synth notes staying on after stopping - Did we ever figure out a resolution? 2011/07/11 08:38:49 (permalink)
    i am having the same issue with my current project & Absynth; latest version x64

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    djjhart@aol.com
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    Re:Synth notes staying on after stopping - Did we ever figure out a resolution? 2011/07/11 09:18:59 (permalink)
    cyphersuit


    after talking to sugar-bytes we can put turnado off of the list. the behaviour is correct. there is even a hidden option, to make turnado stop after pressign stop on the transport.

    Josh, did you add all the other vsts in your bug report?


    Cyphersuit , I have turnado also what hidden option? also did you update to 1.01? BTW Turnado Is INSANE!!!



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    cyphersuit
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    Re:Synth notes staying on after stopping - Did we ever figure out a resolution? 2011/07/11 17:15:18 (permalink)
    this comes directly from the sugar coated bytes: "There is also a hidden feature to turn off the knobs when the sequencer stops.
    To activate it click into the 'O' from the Off label in the setting screen."


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    JoshWolfer
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    Re:Synth notes staying on after stopping - Did we ever figure out a resolution? 2011/07/11 22:31:33 (permalink)
    I only listed Reaktor in my bug, since that's what I'm using. I didn't write the bug number down, unfortunately. When I get the email back from them, I'll add the others and share it. 

    It wouldn't hurt to have you guys both file your own bugs. The more bug sightings / filing, the more they'll take it seriously.

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    bladetragic
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    Re:Synth notes staying on after stopping - Did we ever figure out a resolution? 2011/07/12 00:54:04 (permalink)
    Yep, Razor is virtually unusable for me b/c of this issue.  And it sucks b/c it is an insane synth and I've been really wanting to make some music with it.  Meanwhile, my friend has Cubase and can't stop talking about how much he loves Razor since he started using it.

    However, I'm not sure if it's Reaktor as a whole b/c I've used other Reaktor instruments and don't have this issue at all.
    post edited by bladetragic - 2011/07/12 00:56:50
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    twoifbysea
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    Re:Synth notes staying on after stopping - Did we ever figure out a resolution? 2011/07/12 03:02:27 (permalink)
    I have had the same problem with Kontakt. 

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    JoshWolfer
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    Re:Synth notes staying on after stopping - Did we ever figure out a resolution? 2011/07/12 18:43:23 (permalink)
    Razor is pretty bad ass, but it took me twice the amount of time to sequence the track I'm working on, because I had to keep manually stopping the audio engine. 

    So please, everyone file your own bugs here: http://www.cakewalk.com/s...act/problemreport.aspx

    Bug sighting volume should reach them.

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    windsurfer25x
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    Re:Synth notes staying on after stopping - Did we ever figure out a resolution? 2011/07/12 19:40:55 (permalink)
    Experiencing the same problem...


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    windsurfer25x
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    Re:Synth notes staying on after stopping - Did we ever figure out a resolution? 2011/07/12 19:46:17 (permalink)
    ANother problem, don't know what it's related to but every time I load Kontakt 4, then load Alicia's Keys and try and choose a preset I get a Kontakt freeze followed by a Sonar crash and it requires a system reboot to get everything working again


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    djjhart@aol.com
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    Re:Synth notes staying on after stopping - Did we ever figure out a resolution? 2011/07/12 20:10:07 (permalink)
    cyphersuit


    this comes directly from the sugar coated bytes: "There is also a hidden feature to turn off the knobs when the sequencer stops.
    To activate it click into the 'O' from the Off label in the setting screen."


    Thank You Cyphersuit .. good to know..



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    cliffr
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    Re:Synth notes staying on after stopping - Did we ever figure out a resolution? 2011/07/12 20:25:45 (permalink)
    Twigman


    rainmaker1011


    So it must be related to Sonar.

    Not necessarily - I got the VSTi developer to include a response to AllNotesOff in his VSTi and it works now.

    Hardware synths all respond to AllNotesOff - AllNotesOff is the most efficient way to handle the Stop button as it uses less bandwidth than multiple NoteOff messages.

    it is the VSTis that need to be edited to include the response to AllNotesOff

    Some already do.
    Many don't.

    This is correct - the cause is not a Sonar bug at all.  Sonar sends a Midi AllNotesOff, which the instruments should honor.

    So a "Bug report" is not really the correct way to deal with this - it's simply not a bug in Sonar.

    What you should submit is a "Feature Request" to have a configurable option added to "Send Midi Note Off" for all active
    notes when the transport is stopped.


    From what I can tell, there's quite a number of VST Instruments that don't respond to the "AllNotesOff" message.
    And again - this is not really a bug, it's lack of support for a standard feature which "Should be supported".

    It's a damn annoying thing though, bug or not !.

    The thing is, you'll likely stand a better chance of getting this fixed (either in the host or the instrument) by submitting
    the correct type of request.  May seem or sound silly to the end user, but that's the way it is.


    If it really BUGs you (ha ha), I'd recommend submitting it as a "Feature Request" to both the VST vendor, and Cakewalk
    for an option as described above.


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    thefyn
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    Re:Synth notes staying on after stopping - Did we ever figure out a resolution? 2011/07/14 18:30:23 (permalink)
    It sucks.  I can't even trade it.  NI wont transfer licences for Razor.
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    djjhart@aol.com
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    Re:Synth notes staying on after stopping - Did we ever figure out a resolution? 2011/07/15 10:01:02 (permalink)
    This is correct - the cause is not a Sonar bug at all.  Sonar sends a Midi AllNotesOff, which the instruments should honor. So a "Bug report" is not really the correct way to deal with this - it's simply not a bug in Sonar.



    How can that be true when in 32 bit os there is no problem with this issue at all EVER!!!..
     I am sorry to say 64bit is not ready for main stream producing , not yet , NOT when you have stuck notes and patches changing by them selfs .. And the plugins are 64 bit native no bit bridge..

    Its heartbreaking no one from CW has chimed in...



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    Twigman
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    Re:Synth notes staying on after stopping - Did we ever figure out a resolution? 2011/07/15 10:08:38 (permalink)
    djjhart@aol.com



    This is correct - the cause is not a Sonar bug at all.  Sonar sends a Midi AllNotesOff, which the instruments should honor. So a "Bug report" is not really the correct way to deal with this - it's simply not a bug in Sonar.



    How can that be true when in 32 bit os there is no problem with this issue at all EVER!!!.. 


    Rubbish!

    It was when i was using 32bit Sonar that I had to get ReFX Nexus modified to respond to AllNotesOff.
    Nexus was initially released without a response to AllNotesOff programmed (according to the developer) as Sonar was possibly the only DAW that sent AllNotesOff commands and until I spoke to him he hadn't tested with Sonar (7 at the time).....he then secured a NFR copy of S7PE from CW and told me why my midi notes were hanging on Stop and modified his VSTi accordingly.

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    djjhart@aol.com
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    Re:Synth notes staying on after stopping - Did we ever figure out a resolution? 2011/07/15 11:16:13 (permalink)
    Hey twigman I never had a problem with notes being stuck in 32bit os , maybe I never noticed it, but I surely notice it now in 64 bit Os , and I been using Reactor for years,, Perhaps its only with X1 ,I do remember Scott had some issues with Nexus when X1 was released , and he had moved onto a different Daw. Just something I remember when x1 was first released, perhaps that was the same problem, I could be wrong but I never seen this issue while working in 32bit Os..  I stand behind what I say and its something inherently wrong with how Sonar works with these plugins. and I only see it in 64bit OS.. I still use 32bit everday with multiple instances of reactor and I dont ever hear a stuck note or a patch change just by hitting play on the transport..   If nexus works in Logic in presonus ect and they dont see stuck notes , How can it not be an issue with sonar.. My question is why do you have to modify Nexus to work with Sonar and only Sonar? Don't you think its a sonar issue. So basicly what your saying we will have to deal with stuck notes for ever in Sonar unless we can modify the plugin to respond to all notes off.. But for me I only see this in 64 bit OS.. SO weird!!! Something more is going ON here..

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