Helpful ReplyTH2 Producer GUI Causing Crackles?

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Anderton
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2014/01/12 03:09:56 (permalink)

TH2 Producer GUI Causing Crackles?

I've seen threads alluding to crackles when moving the mouse of Sonar under some conditions. Well, I found one of those conditions tonight, and wondered if a) anyone else has experienced it, and b) if so, if you found a solution.
 
If I load TH2 Producer in an FX bin and open its GUI, moving the mouse around causes crackles and signal interruptions. This doesn't happen if the interface is closed, and doesn't happen at all with the full TH2 version (or any other other guitar sim, for that matter). Thoughts?
 
 
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Splat
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Re: TH2 Producer GUI Causing Crackles? 2014/01/12 03:31:02 (permalink)
Does play or record need to be engaged?

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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Anderton
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Re: TH2 Producer GUI Causing Crackles? 2014/01/12 03:36:45 (permalink)
Yes. And it doesn't matter if the track containing TH2 Producer is muted or not. It all depends on whether the GUI is open or not.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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cowboydan
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Re: TH2 Producer GUI Causing Crackles? 2014/01/12 03:52:11 (permalink)
Do you have the 64 bit double engine on? Maybe still coming from there. 
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Anderton
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Re: TH2 Producer GUI Causing Crackles? 2014/01/12 03:57:39 (permalink)
cowboydan
Do you have the 64 bit double engine on? Maybe still coming from there. 



Thanks for trying, but it doesn't make any difference whether it's on or off.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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cowboydan
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Re: TH2 Producer GUI Causing Crackles? 2014/01/12 04:10:06 (permalink)
I had also updated my video drivers in windows. I cant remember if this got the whole problem solved.
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cowboydan
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Re: TH2 Producer GUI Causing Crackles? 2014/01/12 04:16:39 (permalink)
I just put Th2 on three different tracks and I have no problems with cracks and pops. I turned all the knobs and did everything I could to reproduce this but to no avail.
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Splat
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Re: TH2 Producer GUI Causing Crackles? 2014/01/12 05:47:44 (permalink)
Ran a quick test before I ran for the door, nothing. Maybe try different display drivers.

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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Splat
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Re: TH2 Producer GUI Causing Crackles? 2014/01/12 05:49:02 (permalink)
Oh I wonder.. You don't have tempo changes in the project? Is it project specific?

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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KPerry
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Re: TH2 Producer GUI Causing Crackles? 2014/01/12 06:30:03 (permalink)
I've found other VSTs that, when loaded in SONAR, even if their track is muted, cause pops and clicks (eg. MHC Fatsondo).  Freezing/bouncing & archiving the offending track solves the problem.
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stonehedge
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Re: TH2 Producer GUI Causing Crackles? 2014/01/12 20:51:20 (permalink)
Are you using dual monitors? If so what happens if you move the GUI to the other monitor?

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Atsuko
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Re: TH2 Producer GUI Causing Crackles? 2014/01/13 10:04:47 (permalink)
Hi, Craig,
do you have the latest version of the plugin? It's 2.2.16.

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sharke
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Re: TH2 Producer GUI Causing Crackles? 2014/01/13 11:09:26 (permalink)
I'm not at my computer now and haven't used TH2 for a few weeks but I definitely remember experiencing crackling when moving my mouse around the interface.

James
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emwhy
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Re: TH2 Producer GUI Causing Crackles? 2014/01/13 11:24:29 (permalink)
Just wanted to add that I too have had this problem. I don't use TH2 that much so haven't worked with it recently, nor have I had the chance to see how it performs with different/new video drivers at different latencies. The issue for me was moving the GUI from left to right and back again to access the different modules.
 
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Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
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Re: TH2 Producer GUI Causing Crackles? 2014/01/13 12:18:27 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2014/01/13 16:08:30
In the past we found that UI doing too much alpha blending using GDI calls would result in crackle.
This is because GDI moved to Kernel around Win2K and Kernel servicing takes priority over the highest possible priority audio threads.  Having MMCSS on can help some, but in general anything that results in too much Kernel CPU usage will preempt user mode threads.  Raising the latency a notch should work around that.
 
Keith

Keith
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Thatsastrat
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Re: TH2 Producer GUI Causing Crackles? 2014/01/13 16:19:42 (permalink)
Cakewalk has spoken. Better mark this one as solved Craig.

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Anderton
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Re: TH2 Producer GUI Causing Crackles? 2014/01/13 16:44:45 (permalink)
Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
In the past we found that UI doing too much alpha blending using GDI calls would result in crackle.



"Alpha blending using GDI calls"...I have zero idea what that means, but I'll try increasing latency

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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Re: TH2 Producer GUI Causing Crackles? 2014/01/13 16:53:00 (permalink)
Atsuko
Hi, Craig,
do you have the latest version of the plugin? It's 2.2.16.


Is this the (Sonar) producer version or the full version? How do you update the TH2 Producer version in Sonar?
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Splat
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Re: TH2 Producer GUI Causing Crackles? 2014/01/13 16:55:07 (permalink)
Anderton
Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
In the past we found that UI doing too much alpha blending using GDI calls would result in crackle.



"Alpha blending using GDI calls"...I have zero idea what that means, but I'll try increasing latency 


 
 
Graphics Device Interface.
Alpha blending is to do with transparency (background/foreground).
TTFN

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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bvideo
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Re: TH2 Producer GUI Causing Crackles? 2014/01/13 17:55:54 (permalink)
X-Ray on?
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Anderton
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Re: TH2 Producer GUI Causing Crackles? 2014/01/13 22:34:38 (permalink)
Atsuko
Hi, Craig,
do you have the latest version of the plugin? It's 2.2.16.




Mine says 2.2.3 (64-bit)...but thanks...!

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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scook
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Re: TH2 Producer GUI Causing Crackles? 2014/01/13 22:45:02 (permalink)
The current 64bit full version is 2.2.16, TH2 Producer is 2.2.3.
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Anderton
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Re: TH2 Producer GUI Causing Crackles? 2014/01/13 22:46:05 (permalink)
Turning off X-Ray didn't help either, but bumping up the latency to 1,024 samples did. Given that I can normally get by with 128, even on complex mixes, that seems like a lot. It's odd it happens only the TH2 Producer version, not the full one.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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Re: TH2 Producer GUI Causing Crackles? 2014/01/14 05:55:38 (permalink)
Doesn't seem right to me, I wonder if it is related to this:
 
I wonder if it is related to this (it's not the exact issue, and no crackling involved either, post #46 summarises it):
http://forum.cakewalk.com/sonar-X3d-now-time-playhead-Lag-when-moving-the-mouse-cursor-on-playback-m2952126.aspx
 

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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rontarrant
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Re: TH2 Producer GUI Causing Crackles? 2014/01/14 07:21:03 (permalink)
Anderton
"Alpha blending using GDI calls"...I have zero idea what that means, but I'll try increasing latency

Imagine a photo of a nice, clean car and another photo of some mud spatters. Putting the mud spatters onto the car is basically what alpha blending is.
 
GDI is a graphics subsystem in Windows where live all the programming calls (think: hammer, saw, screwdriver or, more musically: wah-wah, phaser, delay) for doing various types of alpha blending.
 
As for why GDI has priority over audio calls, Microsoft (along with a lot of other sadly-misguided people) seem to be under the impression we're a visually-oriented society. Someday, we'll set them straight.
 

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neirbod
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Re: TH2 Producer GUI Causing Crackles? 2014/01/14 09:19:13 (permalink)
Is TH2 locked to X3? If not I would be curious if you have the same crackles in earlier Sonar versions.  Perhaps you could try it out.
 
I have posted several times about crackles and pops I am having, and believe it could be a driver issue. But seeing posts like this makes me wonder if the source of the problem is something else. I too have found that bumping up to 1024 samples can help, but that it pretty high for moderate projects that ran at 128 or at most 256 with no problems on 8.5. 

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Atsuko
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Re: TH2 Producer GUI Causing Crackles? 2014/01/14 10:54:24 (permalink)
cowboydan
Atsuko
Hi, Craig,
do you have the latest version of the plugin? It's 2.2.16.


Is this the (Sonar) producer version or the full version? How do you update the TH2 Producer version in Sonar?


2.2.16 is the the most recent version for the full program.  I was having some issues that were resolved by this update.  Sorry, it's not useful for the TH2 Producer.

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Re: TH2 Producer GUI Causing Crackles? 2014/01/20 21:45:37 (permalink)
Anderton
Turning off X-Ray didn't help either, but bumping up the latency to 1,024 samples did. Given that I can normally get by with 128, even on complex mixes, that seems like a lot. It's odd it happens only the TH2 Producer version, not the full one.




Odd indeed, that the premium edition of Sonar's currently bundled-in (tethered?) guitar amp/fx sim plug-in would be causing problems unless the latency were raised so high. Odd also that a CW developer's response is to blame it on Windows and recommending increasing latency. Makes one wonder to what extent CW actually tests compatibility of bundled-in plug-ins with their software on different systems (and with different graphics cards).
 
If only there someone in a position to exert some influence upon CW (and perhaps Overloud too) to satifactorily resolve this rather unfortunate situation....
 
(fwiw, I do understand what Keith meant about alpha blending, and am generally aware of the state of MS' graphics APIs including Direct2D, but stil found it rather disappointing that CW's only proffered remedy was to increase the latency)
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Splat
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Re: TH2 Producer GUI Causing Crackles? 2014/01/20 23:25:38 (permalink)
It's a far better response than what most would have given... That is to contact the plugin manufacturer. Must cake get blamed for all third party code issues when they try to help?

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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Re: TH2 Producer GUI Causing Crackles? 2014/01/21 00:34:50 (permalink)
Just to give another view. I don't suffer with this problem in the bundled version of TH2. So it's not an issue that everyone suffers. Apart from the video card, my system is nearly identical to Craig.

Mike V. (MUDGEL)

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