mudgel


Anyway back to finding the balance between leveraging technology to make music and actually making music. When its all out of whack I pick up an acoustic guitar and just start playing. When that hits the spot I go back to leveraging the technology with a new lease of energy and a clearer perspective on things. But I do love the challenge that the technology presents. Some of us musos just can't help but love tinkering too.

I'll tell you a secret: sometimes; just sometimes mind you; The tinkerer in me beats the musician in me and he doesn't mind getting caught up in the technology even if he doesn't make a note of music. As long as he's enjoyed it I'm OK with that.
But there's 2 hats.
The party hat where I can play just for fun; music or tinkering whatever:
then there's the working hat; still enjoyable but different priorities take over and you need to get the job done. Don't want to tinker then. It all has to come together and just work - the technology, the techniques, the workflow,the skills and of course the project, music video whatever.

Crg

In other words, I'm feeling that even though I may have a 100% x64 project set up (as in, all the plugins are x64), that if I have too many plugins that are DIFFERENT, things can get strange.

 
Even in X64 I'd have to point the finger at processor scheduling and memory address's. Software is built a certain way and hardware has limits as to what it can process. I don't know what kind of machine you're using, 4 core, 2 core, 8 core. Or how many Gb of ram you have but eventually you're going to reach the limit of what your machine can process in the proper time frame. I think you'd have the same problem in X86.

mudgel


I'm taking so long to write my posts that I'm not connecting with the right people.

eratu: admit it go on. YOU ARE REALLY GREEDY. where did you get the idea that could have your cake and eat it too. hang on! Why would you even want a cake if you couldn't eat it?

Technology makes us greedy, do more in less time, do better more quickly etc. etc.

I certainly haven't had projects that pushed your kind of limits but i don't use Omnishere or Wave arts stuff and the like either.

after lots of experimenting I find I get predictably stable results usingas many of the following as I like: I'd say i wouldn't have atrack count go over 80 or so and no more than 100 plugin instances synths or fx

I've also found that I've benfitted form using the whole "kit" from one software developer, in my case as follows.
Yellow tools
Independence 2.5 with all the instruments that load through it,
Toontrack -
All the SD2 packs MIDI's the lot
Native Instruments
KOMPLETE 7, and several other NI libraries like Alicia Keys
IK Multimedia
everything including T-Racks 3 for mixing & mastering none of it is 64bit yet all works perfectly well through Bitbridge
Line 6 POD XT Live for guitar hardware.
iZotope
Ozone 4 and Alloy for channel fx processing, RX for restoration work

I'm waiting on EWQL's Goliath; my first iLok software but a step up in orchestral instrument samples as well as the Bosendorfer 290 piano

I don't use any of Cakewalks new 64 bit plugins at all nor do I use any of the Cakewalk instruments except for z3ta +. I want Cake to concentrate on the DAW. I already have 3rd party plugins for all the other stuff.

I'd love to get my teeth into a project that could bring my computer to its knees but its not happening yet.

I wonder though what EWQL will do along with an iLok?? Stay tuned.

vintagevibe


FWIW I use Sonar 8.5 32bit in Windows 7 64bit.  For my large libraries I use jBridge to run them in the 32bit Sonar.  I've had a lot less problems (but still some) using it this was as opposed to usinging BitBridge to have 32bit plugs in sonar 64bit.

eratu


I made the wholesale switch to x64 on my main DAW and now even on my backup DAW -- I've been basically thrilled until recently... as I've been slamming my projects with more and more plugins, I've noticed some strange things begin to happen.

For example, the other day I had a project with >4GB RAM used (very typical, with many instances of Omnisphere x64, Kontakt x64, etc.) and when I opened a WaveArts plugin (also x64), the plugin interface didn't show up in some of the instances. When I removed several instances of Omnisphere I got the interfaces of the WaveArts plugins back. How strange is that?

Now, I haven't diagnosed it fully yet, and I will be contacting WaveArts (and perhaps Spectrasonics) about it when I get a breather, but of all the things to give me trouble, those were among the last ones I'd think of. Again, this is really preliminary, and I don't know the culprit yet -- could be Sonar for all I know right now --  but this is not the only thing that's been a bit strange.

In general, I've found that if my projects contain tons of different plugins (quantity and variety) -- even really high-quality plugins that I trust and hammer day in and day out -- things can get a little unpredictable.

What's very interesting to me is that when I keep the TYPE of plugin consistent -- i.e. -- if I load up >4GB of Kontakt x64 with many instances, I'm good... on light, medium and heavy loads, so it's not the amount of RAM that is issue, nor is it the CPU load, drivers, etc... it's really only the number AND variety of plugins that cause strangeness...

In other words, I'm feeling that even though I may have a 100% x64 project set up (as in, all the plugins are x64), that if I have too many plugins that are DIFFERENT, things can get strange.

So, without going into more detail, I'm wondering if some of the x64 plugins are just not as fully-baked as their x86 equivalents... leading to more subtle, very hard to track issues when used in combination with many other plugins simultaneously. See, I thinking DAW developers and plugin developers are not hammering their test suites with enough plugin varieties to test for subtle issues once the load gets way up there...

I also did a breakdown of my memory usage patterns, and basically, the only time I go over 3GB RAM usage (which is quite often -- almost every serious mix or project now) is when I use sample-based products like Kontakt, PLAY or Spectrasonics plugins. If I create a super-complex session WITHOUT those types of memory-hungry plugins, I can almost always stay under 3GB usage, and things seem more stable...

Which made me realize that I could theoretically use VE Pro as my sample-based plugin host all the time, instead of trying to make Sonar x64 (or Cubase x64, etc.) do all the heavy lifting.

So in other words, I'm contemplating moving to the following combo:

I'd stick with Win 7 x64, but instead of running Sonar x64 and Cubase x64, I would install the x86 versions plus finally start using VE Pro, which can then host the sample-based plugins on the same computer AND networked computers. Voila! Best of both worlds... maybe.

This might give me more oomph and less strangeness than I'm currently getting. Or maybe not.... I'm definitely interested in people's opinions who have tried something like this.

I'm also wondering if anyone else has considered these issues, and what benefits/issues you might have researched.

The other bonus of this is that I'll be able to run Reaktor again (which just doesn't seem to work 100% right all the time in both Sonar x64 or Cubase x64 with any of the bridges, no matter what people may say), plus a few other goodies I kinda miss.

Now before anyone wastes time trying to troubleshoot hardware, the system is tested and solid. No issues there.

Maybe this is also a query about the general state of x64. While it's better than ever -- I freely admit to that as an x64 convert -- I just wonder if we're still not really there yet?

Maybe we are there, and I have to just live with the little issues and find workarounds?

eratu


I made the wholesale switch to x64 on my main DAW and now even on my backup DAW -- I've been basically thrilled until recently... as I've been slamming my projects with more and more plugins, I've noticed some strange things begin to happen.

For example, the other day I had a project with >4GB RAM used (very typical, with many instances of Omnisphere x64, Kontakt x64, etc.) and when I opened a WaveArts plugin (also x64), the plugin interface didn't show up in some of the instances. When I removed several instances of Omnisphere I got the interfaces of the WaveArts plugins back. How strange is that?

Now, I haven't diagnosed it fully yet, and I will be contacting WaveArts (and perhaps Spectrasonics) about it when I get a breather, but of all the things to give me trouble, those were among the last ones I'd think of. Again, this is really preliminary, and I don't know the culprit yet -- could be Sonar for all I know right now --  but this is not the only thing that's been a bit strange.

In general, I've found that if my projects contain tons of different plugins (quantity and variety) -- even really high-quality plugins that I trust and hammer day in and day out -- things can get a little unpredictable.

What's very interesting to me is that when I keep the TYPE of plugin consistent -- i.e. -- if I load up >4GB of Kontakt x64 with many instances, I'm good... on light, medium and heavy loads, so it's not the amount of RAM that is issue, nor is it the CPU load, drivers, etc... it's really only the number AND variety of plugins that cause strangeness...

In other words, I'm feeling that even though I may have a 100% x64 project set up (as in, all the plugins are x64), that if I have too many plugins that are DIFFERENT, things can get strange.

So, without going into more detail, I'm wondering if some of the x64 plugins are just not as fully-baked as their x86 equivalents... leading to more subtle, very hard to track issues when used in combination with many other plugins simultaneously. See, I thinking DAW developers and plugin developers are not hammering their test suites with enough plugin varieties to test for subtle issues once the load gets way up there...

I also did a breakdown of my memory usage patterns, and basically, the only time I go over 3GB RAM usage (which is quite often -- almost every serious mix or project now) is when I use sample-based products like Kontakt, PLAY or Spectrasonics plugins. If I create a super-complex session WITHOUT those types of memory-hungry plugins, I can almost always stay under 3GB usage, and things seem more stable...

Which made me realize that I could theoretically use VE Pro as my sample-based plugin host all the time, instead of trying to make Sonar x64 (or Cubase x64, etc.) do all the heavy lifting.

So in other words, I'm contemplating moving to the following combo:

I'd stick with Win 7 x64, but instead of running Sonar x64 and Cubase x64, I would install the x86 versions plus finally start using VE Pro, which can then host the sample-based plugins on the same computer AND networked computers. Voila! Best of both worlds... maybe.

This might give me more oomph and less strangeness than I'm currently getting. Or maybe not.... I'm definitely interested in people's opinions who have tried something like this.

I'm also wondering if anyone else has considered these issues, and what benefits/issues you might have researched.

The other bonus of this is that I'll be able to run Reaktor again (which just doesn't seem to work 100% right all the time in both Sonar x64 or Cubase x64 with any of the bridges, no matter what people may say), plus a few other goodies I kinda miss.

Now before anyone wastes time trying to troubleshoot hardware, the system is tested and solid. No issues there.

Maybe this is also a query about the general state of x64. While it's better than ever -- I freely admit to that as an x64 convert -- I just wonder if we're still not really there yet?

Maybe we are there, and I have to just live with the little issues and find workarounds?

I was thinking VE Pro

kev11111111111111


when I load samples into Eastwests Colossus - along the lines of "system is running low on memory,loading more samples may cause your system to be unstable"
 
 

Crg


I was under the impression he was refering to a plugin hosting setup of some sort. ??

Eratu?

eratu

kev11111111111111


when I load samples into Eastwests Colossus - along the lines of "system is running low on memory,loading more samples may cause your system to be unstable"

Yeah, this happens to a lot of us -- you're using the bundled plugin, which is really old, and not supported any more, sadly. The plugin itself is old, but the samples are still excellent and totally usable, though. What you can do is use Kontakt 4, which will load the authorized libraries you have, without those errors. Kontakt 4 is also available as a native x64 plugin, so it's really worth the upgrade if you haven't already done so.

Alternatively, you can upgrade your Colossus to the PLAY version, which is called Goliath, which actually comes with some extra samples as well. I didn't bother upgrading to Goliath since Colossus works just fine in Kontakt 4.