ampfixer
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Thoughts on Sonar
Like most other folks around here, I have purchased other DAW's and occasionally look at other DAW's. The only one I've been really comfortable with is Sonar. It is a mystery why it isn't the one that everybody talks about. Nothing else really has the scope of Sonar. Then I had a thought (it does happen).
What if Sonar was the new contender? Imagine if we had never seen Sonar and it was dropped on the music world as it sits today. Same price, same features. I think the recording community would be gob-smacked. No one would believe that a DAW with all its features could be released at a competitive price point.
I'm positive that Sonar's biggest drawback is that it's been around forever and we just take it for granted.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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Slugbaby
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Re: Thoughts on Sonar
2016/12/30 15:40:58
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I don't think its ever been high on the public's eyeline.
I don't remember how I discovered Sonar, but it must have been from web-surfing as I don't actually KNOW anyone else that uses it. I've recorded in studios that use ProTools and Digital Performer, but Sonar is the only DAW i've ever used myself.
It's a solid product, flexible, and at a very competitive price. Must just be a marketing problem...
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jackson white
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Re: Thoughts on Sonar
2016/12/30 15:44:46
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Within my network, the biggest drawback was that it was never on a Mac. Never got into the game which already fielded a number of competent players. For a glass half full perspective, hoping #SONAR4Mac will drive some best-in-class feature development to compete effectively with the established players.
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MANTRASKY
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Re: Thoughts on Sonar
2016/12/30 16:00:17
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I've used Sonar (platinum) for almost 10yrs and really love it, I was using ProTools HD (pretty rock solid), Sonar is more user friendly (for me). I deal with friends and recording professionals that believe ProTools is the industry standard and could not see to ever use Sonar? They would use anything but? Not sure why most studios don't use Sonar, they tell me "it's not what professional artist are recorded with" just what I've experienced.
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eph221
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Re: Thoughts on Sonar
2016/12/30 16:13:56
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ampfixer
Like most other folks around here, I have purchased other DAW's and occasionally look at other DAW's. The only one I've been really comfortable with is Sonar. It is a mystery why it isn't the one that everybody talks about. Nothing else really has the scope of Sonar. Then I had a thought (it does happen).
What if Sonar was the new contender? Imagine if we had never seen Sonar and it was dropped on the music world as it sits today. Same price, same features. I think the recording community would be gob-smacked. No one would believe that a DAW with all its features could be released at a competitive price point.
I'm positive that Sonar's biggest drawback is that it's been around forever and we just take it for granted.
I write in Sonar. It has so many great features that pro tools doesn't. BUT, it crashes WAY to often. That's the reputation it has, and IMHO it's deserved. I don't go through a day when it doesn't crash. My setup is totally fine too, i7 20 gigs ram etc. I hear excuses from cakewalk about compatibility with plug ins...etc. That's not the consumer's problem.
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slyman
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Re: Thoughts on Sonar
2016/12/30 16:22:42
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If Cakewalk/Sonar had been a Mac oriented software from the get go, it would still be the reference for DAW's today.
Studios all over the world started using Apple computers at some point and it quickly became THE system to buy for audio recording and processing....the rest is history....
Sonar Platinum, Gigabyte H87-HD3, Intel 4770k, 16Mb Ram, Win 10 Pro, RME Babyface Pro, Roland A-Pro 800, Presonus Studio Channel, Kemper Profiling Amp, Strat/Tele/LesPaul/Taylor 214ce/Dean Cadillac/P-Bass
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Thoughts on Sonar
2016/12/30 16:23:31
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I like Sonar but Mac is still the dominant platform and sorry, but if you can get Logic for under 200 bucks there is no way Sonar's price point can be called "competitive". Even if Sonar does some things that Logic does not, the same can be said the other way around, and Logic is a third of the price. The amount of content it comes with and especially the integration of all the synths/presets/loops/etc is mind boggling.
Sonar is not on Mac and neither am I. I like the workflow and am not shilling out for another 500/600e DAW. Plus, credit where credit is due, I usr the heck out of Melodyne and ARA is killer.
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panup
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Re: Thoughts on Sonar
2016/12/30 16:35:29
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In the past Pro Tools HD was, I believe, more robust recording system than the others and it became the industry standard. This combined to SONAR's lack of Mac support is one logical explanation why SONAR isn't more popular than it is.
Most of my friends are musicians almost all of them use Mac. All my nearby recording studios use Mac with Pro Tools. I'm still asked "Why don't you use Mac?". My normal answer is: "I get more power for half the price and SONAR is more advanced than Pro Tools.". Usually they believe when they see me mixing their songs. :)
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Brian Walton
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Re: Thoughts on Sonar
2016/12/30 16:48:27
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☄ Helpfulby wetdentist 2017/01/06 12:08:36
eph221
ampfixer
Like most other folks around here, I have purchased other DAW's and occasionally look at other DAW's. The only one I've been really comfortable with is Sonar. It is a mystery why it isn't the one that everybody talks about. Nothing else really has the scope of Sonar. Then I had a thought (it does happen).
What if Sonar was the new contender? Imagine if we had never seen Sonar and it was dropped on the music world as it sits today. Same price, same features. I think the recording community would be gob-smacked. No one would believe that a DAW with all its features could be released at a competitive price point.
I'm positive that Sonar's biggest drawback is that it's been around forever and we just take it for granted.
I write in Sonar. It has so many great features that pro tools doesn't. BUT, it crashes WAY to often. That's the reputation it has, and IMHO it's deserved. I don't go through a day when it doesn't crash. My setup is totally fine too, i7 20 gigs ram etc. I hear excuses from cakewalk about compatibility with plug ins...etc. That's not the consumer's problem.
Are you using any 32 bit plugs in 64bit sonar?
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panup
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Re: Thoughts on Sonar
2016/12/30 17:41:23
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eph221
I write in Sonar. It has so many great features that pro tools doesn't. BUT, it crashes WAY to often. That's the reputation it has, and IMHO it's deserved. I don't go through a day when it doesn't crash. My setup is totally fine too, i7 20 gigs ram etc. I hear excuses from cakewalk about compatibility with plug ins...etc. That's not the consumer's problem.
You did not mention anything about what causes the crashes. Do you let SONAR send the automatic Problem Reports to the Cakewalk HQ? Have you asked for help from Cakewalk Support? I have always got help to my crash problems and possible causes have been eliminated in the new SONAR builds. Just get in contact with Cakewalk.
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bapu
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Re: Thoughts on Sonar
2016/12/30 18:01:02
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I run SONAR on an i7 2600K with 16 gigs of RAM and I have just about one crash every 7-8 months. That crash is almost always because of me doing something stoopid like inserting a massive latency plug while the project is running.
I have plugs and synths from at least 60 vendors. I run a 64bit OS, 64bit SONAR and 64bit plugs. FWIW, I almost *never* use a 32bit plug.
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Kev999
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Re: Thoughts on Sonar
2016/12/30 19:29:50
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There are two weak areas that need to be improved before Sonar can be regarded by the pro community as being in the same league as certain other DAWs. One is video. The other is notation.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Thoughts on Sonar
2016/12/30 20:03:32
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bapu
I run SONAR on an i7 2600K with 16 gigs of RAM and I have just about one crash every 7-8 months. That crash is almost always because of me doing something stoopid like inserting a massive latency plug while the project is running.
This sounds exactly like me in a nut shell. Like my last crash was "Cloning" a track. The problem was I had all 64 tracks selected  . So it cloned all 64 tracks, totaling 128 tracks (with data). It worked well until I hit play. was wondering why it took 15 seconds to clone 1 track. Sonar has been Super stable for me. Even when using older 32 bit plug ins and plug ins from different vendors. I first learned about Cakewalk in 1999. The studio I was working in (in Boston, MA) decided to go half Digital/half Analog. Basically heading all Digital but not all at once. They handed me Cakewalk Pro Audio and told me to learn it. I spent days and nights reading the manual (Yes it came with a softcover manual back then). When I finally decided to go Digital in my own private studio at home, I choose a product I was familiar with, Cakewalk Sonar. Ive walked out on the limb many times and tried other DAW software. Cakewalk almost lost me as a customer in the early stages of Sonar X1.Im sure many of you remember what that was like. I was excited for the new look but I really enjoyed certain things about Sonar 8.5 and stability was a factor before Sonar released its first patch (Sonar X1 A) Autosnap was basically broken. Besides that, I've never had a stability issue or crashes that come in multiples. Only the occasional crash brought on by something stupid I have tried to invent, like saving while the transport is running.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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Kamikaze
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Re: Thoughts on Sonar
2016/12/30 22:20:57
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Sonar seems to have missed out on the dance music scene. In the UK it really kicked off in the early 90's, when I got Cakewalk on '93, everyone was cubase or logic, and when I was asked which of the two I used, they were baffled by the answer 'Cakewalk'. Chart record sales may have kicked off of dance music later in the US, but when Chime peaked at number 17 in 1990, when the singles charts meant something, it was a big sign. They used a fourtrack, but it gave rise to the significance of the bedroom producer. just a few later, the UK dance scenes importance has spilt into multiple genres. Over the 90's record sales grew, but more importantly home sequencers exploded. Sure people were using cracked versions, but not cracked version of Cakewalk, but logic and Cubase, which from a European perspective, made cakewalk irrelevant.
I think musicians from a rock background really ignore the significance of dance music, and it's effect on software development, but in my opinion it's been key to much of it. When Propellerheads made ReBirth in '97 it really set the scene for modelling old synths. Sure prog rockers may have been interested, but it was the dance market that created the demand.
Then from that Reason, fruityloops, Acid, Ableton, all created for the dance market. This forum seems to be in denial of it's size and importance. The term EDM was coined in the early 2000's when americans really started to take note. but the Europe, it just been Dance music for over a decade and half before then, despite the detriot scene.
When logic dumped PC after being acquired by apple, it was big thing. So many logic users were on PC's. So yeah, cakewalk not being on Macs has cut it's market, but I think it's failure to invest capture the hearts on dance producers, has basically left it out of the conversation. I probably would have never joined this gang if it was for the bundling with soundblaster 16.
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Jimbo 88
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Re: Thoughts on Sonar
2016/12/31 01:00:50
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In 1992 my college roommate was working at Guitar Center and gave me an illegal copy of Twelve Tone System's Cakewalk 3.1. I needed something to help me score a hour long cable TV show I was hired to score. It was the only DAW that would lock to SYMPTE TC at the rate I needed. At the time we called Macs "Crashintoches" Things went well and I spent the next 17 years scoring shows literally working 7days a week. I maybe took 5 days off a year and was on "Sonar" and all it's incarnations constantly. How anyone could or would say it crashes is insane to me. During that time I was always ahead of tech advances, (random access video cause I could play AVI files inside the computer, 64 bit allowing me not to need a slave computer for Gigastudio, fast bounce allowing rendering as fast as the computer would go and not render things real time) All these things happened way before my friends on ProTools or Apple DAWs could. And it was not "Crashing".
That said, my son just bought a Macbook Pro (against my advice) and here is the thing. His laptop does not need an external sound card for Logic to work. Score Editor appears to pretty cool in Logic...I'm going to have to check that out. It has some cool synths and features.
I'm hoping Sonar heads over to Mac so I can turn him into a Sonarite, but I am seeing the draw to the "otherside".
Cakewalk By Bandlab Cubase 9.5 Pro Windows 7 64 Bit Core i7-8700 32 Gig Ram 3.20ghz RME Fireface 400 Audio Card Behringer FCA 1616 Sweetwater Creation Station
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eph221
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Re: Thoughts on Sonar
2016/12/31 01:01:33
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Brian Walton
eph221
ampfixer
Like most other folks around here, I have purchased other DAW's and occasionally look at other DAW's. The only one I've been really comfortable with is Sonar. It is a mystery why it isn't the one that everybody talks about. Nothing else really has the scope of Sonar. Then I had a thought (it does happen).
What if Sonar was the new contender? Imagine if we had never seen Sonar and it was dropped on the music world as it sits today. Same price, same features. I think the recording community would be gob-smacked. No one would believe that a DAW with all its features could be released at a competitive price point.
I'm positive that Sonar's biggest drawback is that it's been around forever and we just take it for granted.
I write in Sonar. It has so many great features that pro tools doesn't. BUT, it crashes WAY to often. That's the reputation it has, and IMHO it's deserved. I don't go through a day when it doesn't crash. My setup is totally fine too, i7 20 gigs ram etc. I hear excuses from cakewalk about compatibility with plug ins...etc. That's not the consumer's problem.
Are you using any 32 bit plugs in 64bit sonar?
no
*Q-TIPS ARE FUZZY!!* Is a lumineer a new dental appliance? i7 2.5 ghz 32GB RAM WINDOWS 10 My Ass Cubase 9.5
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John
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Re: Thoughts on Sonar
2016/12/31 01:22:01
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ampfixer
Like most other folks around here, I have purchased other DAW's and occasionally look at other DAW's. The only one I've been really comfortable with is Sonar. It is a mystery why it isn't the one that everybody talks about. Nothing else really has the scope of Sonar. Then I had a thought (it does happen).
What if Sonar was the new contender? Imagine if we had never seen Sonar and it was dropped on the music world as it sits today. Same price, same features. I think the recording community would be gob-smacked. No one would believe that a DAW with all its features could be released at a competitive price point.
I'm positive that Sonar's biggest drawback is that it's been around forever and we just take it for granted.
Interesting thoughts. I have wondered why it doesn't get the same press as some others too. I have no answers to that. It is my goto DAW. No other DAW works as well for me. Perhaps that is an answer. How a DAW works for one. All DAWs have a philosophy. That is they come to the market with a point of view that the developers think will please users. Sonar started out as the only non destructive DAW. Its point of view was and still is to not do anything that is going to cause the user to loose what they have created. One big reason Sonar dropped the audio editing ability of Pro Audio. The ofter big deal when Sonar was first released was to have everything on one screen. What other DAW has buss tracks? Many DAWs have adopted Sonar's way of doing things without giving credit. To a degree each DAW is aimed at a segment of the market. I don't think Sonar does. I think it tends to be a general purpose DAW. This may mean to some that its not the best tool for a specific type of music. We know that it can and will do any form or type music. Yet many don't. I think this new year can be a watershed moment for CW if they are able to show that Sonar can do anything. Also keep in mind that Sonar is an American DAW that was unknown in Europe. I recall when CW started worldwide distribution. When they started multi language versions. Why they enlisted Roland and so on. I have no data on sales or where Sonar is most popular but I have noticed for a long time the English connection as well as an Asian connection that is in my view a strong move for growth. Let us hope that people will give Sonar a fair test because it is a great DAW.
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tenfoot
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Re: Thoughts on Sonar
2016/12/31 02:28:36
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ampfixer
Like most other folks around here, I have purchased other DAW's and occasionally look at other DAW's. The only one I've been really comfortable with is Sonar. It is a mystery why it isn't the one that everybody talks about. Nothing else really has the scope of Sonar. Then I had a thought (it does happen).
What if Sonar was the new contender? Imagine if we had never seen Sonar and it was dropped on the music world as it sits today. Same price, same features. I think the recording community would be gob-smacked. No one would believe that a DAW with all its features could be released at a competitive price point.
I'm positive that Sonar's biggest drawback is that it's been around forever and we just take it for granted.
Interestingly, in the early days of computers for live performance, whilst most were using hardware based midi players like the Yamaha QX3 or Roland MC 500, Cakewalk Live for DOS was probably the most popular PC based sequencer. I too am perplexed, given its functionality, why Sonar is not more commonly used. That said, when I first made the transition from Cubase to Cakewalk for sequencing rather than just live playback I did find it's commands and tool set slightly convoluted. That was of course a very long time ago:)
Bruce. Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
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John
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Re: Thoughts on Sonar
2016/12/31 02:56:37
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Kev999
There are two weak areas that need to be improved before Sonar can be regarded by the pro community as being in the same league as certain other DAWs. One is video. The other is notation.
Right, except there are DAWs that have neither notation or video and still get more press. I would love Sonar to improve its notation and its video but that still doesn't explain why other DAWs get press without them and Sonar doesn't. There could be something else in play here that we don't know about.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Thoughts on Sonar
2016/12/31 03:53:32
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Those are usually DAWs that have specialized a specific workflow, like Ableton. Sonar is more of a general purpose "classic" DAW to me. I'd pitch it against Cubase, Logic, StudioOne, Reaper, maybe ProTools. But not Ableton, Reason, FruityLoops. They earn their place because they do a certain workflow really really well, not because they're supposed to offer an alternative to ProTools.
I hate to say it but I honestly believe the Sonar move to Mac is doomed unless they price it like Logic and include a bunch of unique features (like ARA) off the bat. I'm never going to convince any of my Mac friends to switch, for sure. I may be sounding like a Logic fanboy here, but I have used it extensively and while it doesn't trump Sonar in every aspect, it's a really powerful package and very competitively priced.
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jamesg1213
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Re: Thoughts on Sonar
2016/12/31 03:58:12
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Slugbaby
I don't think its ever been high on the public's eyeline.
I don't remember how I discovered Sonar, but it must have been from web-surfing as I don't actually KNOW anyone else that uses it. I've recorded in studios that use ProTools and Digital Performer, but Sonar is the only DAW i've ever used myself.
It's a solid product, flexible, and at a very competitive price. Must just be a marketing problem...
I remember looking for 'home studio software' on Amazon 10 years ago and SHS4XL popped up. I'd never heard of Sonar or Cakewalk until then. Price was good so I went for it.
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synkrotron
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Re: Thoughts on Sonar
2016/12/31 04:16:27
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I got my first Cakewalk MIDI software free with a Sound Blaster sound card, way back when. Been with Cakewalk ever since.
It was a godsend really because prior to that I had bought Cubasis LE and I hated it. It's MIDI GUI was awful.
I, too, have wondered why Sonar is so left out. I recently bought something from Zynaptiq and there's a drop down which requires you to select your DAW. Sonar is not on that list...
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gswitz
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Re: Thoughts on Sonar
2016/12/31 06:45:22
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One of my Mac buddies got a Cakewalk 2002 disk with hardware he bought and handed it off to me. I never shopped around. For the first year and three months, I didn't use the forum I just tried to figure it out. I'll bet most people do the same.
At some point, I decided that I wanted to use it to record, not just mix. That is when I found the forum.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Anderton
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Re: Thoughts on Sonar
2016/12/31 09:47:58
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Sanderxpander
Those are usually DAWs that have specialized a specific workflow, like Ableton. Sonar is more of a general purpose "classic" DAW to me. I'd pitch it against Cubase, Logic, StudioOne, Reaper, maybe ProTools. But not Ableton, Reason, FruityLoops. They earn their place because they do a certain workflow really really well, not because they're supposed to offer an alternative to ProTools. Exactly. When people ask why I use Ableton for live performance and SONAR for the studio, my answer is "because Live is a musical instrument disguised as software, while SONAR is a $500,000 studio disguised as software." I hate to say it but I honestly believe the Sonar move to Mac is doomed unless they price it like Logic and include a bunch of unique features (like ARA) off the bat. I'm never going to convince any of my Mac friends to switch, for sure. I may be sounding like a Logic fanboy here, but I have used it extensively and while it doesn't trump Sonar in every aspect, it's a really powerful package and very competitively priced.
I agree. Furthermore, there are no guarantees Apple won't just bundle Logic Pro for free, like Garageband, if they ever update their desktops (nothing in three years...hmmm...) and want to spur sales. When Logic went to $199, Apple really damaged the bottom line of every company that did a traditional DAW on the Mac, as well as cause some companies to never trust Apple again. I have Logic installed as my go-to Mac sequencer. I like many aspects of it, but not enough to draw me away from SONAR.
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John
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Re: Thoughts on Sonar
2016/12/31 10:29:26
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synkrotron
I, too, have wondered why Sonar is so left out. I recently bought something from Zynaptiq and there's a drop down which requires you to select your DAW. Sonar is not on that list...
Well I always say I use the other. LOL
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synkrotron
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Re: Thoughts on Sonar
2016/12/31 10:37:12
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John
Well I always say I use the other. LOL
Indeed
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Anderton
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Re: Thoughts on Sonar
2016/12/31 10:55:31
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John
synkrotron
I, too, have wondered why Sonar is so left out. I recently bought something from Zynaptiq and there's a drop down which requires you to select your DAW. Sonar is not on that list...
Well I always say I use the other. LOL
I think you're on to something. If we just change the name of SONAR to "Other," we'll automatically be included in all the lists!
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paulo
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Re: Thoughts on Sonar
2016/12/31 14:14:33
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I'd been getting by for a long while with 16 tracks on a Yamaha arranger keyboard and then recording the output of that plus live vocals directly onto a CD recorder, which could be frustrating to say the least, though at time( after many takes) I thought some turned out okay. Then I bought a pc with a junior version of Cubase, as I'd read/heard that this was the way to go. I could barely get a sound out of it and it seemed to crash a lot, probably because I was doing something wrong, but the customer support was appalling. The response to any question I asked was expressed in a way that I couldn't understand despite my having explained that I was a total noob and needed a press this, click that type of answer. Their final answer was that it was impossible to explain it any differently than they already had, so I soon gave up and went back to my tried and trusted method.
Eventually, probably sick to death of the same song over and over, Mrs Paulo booked me a day in "a recording studio" as a birthday present. It wasn't so much a recording studio as a guy with some gear in a shed, but he was running this thing called Sonar 2 and when the day was over I left thinking that I had to find a way to get me some of that..... so I did, and that was that.
Like many, I **** and moan about it from time to time, mostly when things get "improved" in a way that actually makes it worse, but in truth what I have now is beyond anything I could have imagined owning back in the day. I just wish I could have had it all back then and also had paid more attention to the guy who manned the mixing desk when we played, who at the time I thought just turned a few knobs a slid things up and down with no discernable effect just because he could. Maybe he did exactly that.....I was winging it most of the time, so who's to say that he wasn't ?
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bapu
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Re: Thoughts on Sonar
2016/12/31 15:18:30
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eph221
Brian Walton
eph221
ampfixer
Like most other folks around here, I have purchased other DAW's and occasionally look at other DAW's. The only one I've been really comfortable with is Sonar. It is a mystery why it isn't the one that everybody talks about. Nothing else really has the scope of Sonar. Then I had a thought (it does happen).
What if Sonar was the new contender? Imagine if we had never seen Sonar and it was dropped on the music world as it sits today. Same price, same features. I think the recording community would be gob-smacked. No one would believe that a DAW with all its features could be released at a competitive price point.
I'm positive that Sonar's biggest drawback is that it's been around forever and we just take it for granted.
I write in Sonar. It has so many great features that pro tools doesn't. BUT, it crashes WAY to often. That's the reputation it has, and IMHO it's deserved. I don't go through a day when it doesn't crash. My setup is totally fine too, i7 20 gigs ram etc. I hear excuses from cakewalk about compatibility with plug ins...etc. That's not the consumer's problem.
Are you using any 32 bit plugs in 64bit sonar?
no
Uh Oh.... I see Soundblaster in your sig. That could be the root of ALL your (audio) problems. 
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eph221
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Re: Thoughts on Sonar
2016/12/31 15:19:34
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synkrotron
John
Well I always say I use the other. LOL
Indeed
Not to put a wrench in the deal, but Sonar needs to rethink its promotion and advertising side. That's what greases the squeaky wheel. Sonar just isn't sexy...it's advertising isn't sexy. Sexy is what sells. Please don't laugh at this, it's a real observation. When I see Z3ta or Rapture or other cakewalk products advertised I just think to myself...stale, old, dusty. Cakewalk needs to bring sexy back.
*Q-TIPS ARE FUZZY!!* Is a lumineer a new dental appliance? i7 2.5 ghz 32GB RAM WINDOWS 10 My Ass Cubase 9.5
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