You can get a TB 3 to USB 3c adapter cable, or tb 2 to usb c? until MS gets their Crap sorted...But MS wants USB3c sales...So, you see their plans...try it out if all else fails...for the PC solution they want you to adopt usb over TB.
 
Apple store might have what you need for that solution, if you get the Asus TB3 card, it takes or has a USB3 port....if it does get detected when you do it that way?, is to try it.
 
Not sure about fire wire to TB3 yet?...TB2 is possible....if you find the fire wire adapter for TB 2...all tb is supposedly BWC but, TB 3 cables ends are not TB 2 able and vise versa it seems...so you might have to just get the fire wire adapter to tb2 and then, I am not sure if it will go into the TB 3 port, you might have to use a tb 2 card....as mine did not, I used TB 2 to TB 3, as my Motu device supports TB 2 and USB 3.
 
 As for the driver for the audio device driver, if something is not signed properly, that might be the weakest link....
You can make window not address unsigned drivers...I believe.
 
Google how to.
 
 
 
Cheers!.
 
PS,
Sorry for putting you into a state of frustration on the other post, but it kept it current ,and upfront and on top,...so they worked to get it off the top 1st listings page.
 
But I had enough of the dick arounds....You can understand I hope?,,still nothing posted to help me or others...as in tech support ...so I wonder more so now.
 
I meant no harm to you.
 
best of luck.
 
 
 
 

Universal Audio have a new Apollo interface range for Windows Thunderbolt 3 and that could be less expensive than an Antelope. To fully use the power/speed they also offer an additional excelarator box that let's you use Universal Audio plugins at lower latency etc.
Asus have a desktop computer (one of their most expensive at approx 4k) with Thunderbolt 3, you could check what motherboard is in that computer...
You could be one of the fastest Windows DAW users in the world I guess...but I don't know Apollo specs/performance...
Good luck
 

Oh if using TB 3 PCIe 1x Asus Cards, or the 2TB one by Asus, the motherboard has to have a TB header on it.
 
That said, using a motherboard with onboard TB, will not accept the cards if it does not have that TB header on it.
 
Just to say...Setup on the right PCIe slot can be a tricky sortings..and dependency on what else is being used...
Let's say you use M.2...Might be when selecting this to enable in Bios, you defeat the PCIe 2 slot for , or other for TB.
Thus a conflicting state is invoked.
So you have to read the manual for the MB, Bios settings, and TB manuals....And it all gets confused in mind...contact the tech help by phone..ASUS ...And get it all sorted with a good techie, if so confusion is with the TB 1,2 or 3 setup on their MBs.
 
If it already has TB onboard...just a plain firewire to TB adapter should work with that, but because of the protocols being switched up by the adapter....it is not supported as stable with all devices & drivers .
Then again, you mention problems with signage of the audio driver, and MS.
So, there is a way to defeat , or address MS windows signage issues, if it cannot be gotten a proper driver for this setup you wish to use.
 
Not sure it can be solved ?..if the driver is being held under some form of policing of MS Policy agents services being interrupted or causing your problems with,  by that MS service agent on that driver signage issue, is put,  to protect the OS from harm , and your machine...But if that is the case....You will have to seek help from the Audio device manufacturing Techs for help, And MS Techies, to which I find have not solved my issues with this sort of setup, and finding signage issues with Motu.
 
If there Is a Firewire to usb adapter?...surely you can do the workaround until things are sorted?.
 
That would get you at least up and going, as usb and Windows are tied at the hip,...lol...Right?.
 
Well, hope that helps you also decide, and or look into all options of the lessor before spending on more so more...and finding down the road, they screw it up again once finding bliss.
 
Reminds me of Me...LOL.
 
Cheers.

would wait a while....only latest Windows 10 update unblocked Thunderbolt 3 driver writing.
even if you get a Thunderbolt 3 board and interface, at this time it will probably not use the Thunderbolt 3 potential as the drivers are not yet ready.
personally waiting for an RME Thunderbolt 3 interface, that should be WAY cheaper than current Universal Audio Apollo and Antelope, but might be more stable and lower latency.
At least, that's how I see it...
good luck

vladasyn
My motherboard has Thunderbolt header.
 
Asus has Thunderbolt 2 and Thunderbolt 3 cards. I am looking in to buying TB2 audio device such as Antelope. I am wondering if I can install older Thunderbolt 2 card on newer Z270 board or if I am obligated to use TB3 card.

You won't be able to choose which Thunderbolt AIC (add-in-card) you use with that particular motherboard.
It'll support one... or the other.
If it supports Thunderbolt-2, you don't want it.
Microsoft only supports "PCIe via Thunderbolt" with Thunderbolt-3 (via USB-C port).
ALL audio interfaces running via Thunderbolt-2 under Windows are running Firewire protocol over Thunderbolt.
 
Antelope doesn't offer Thunderbolt drivers for Windows... for any of their current audio interfaces.
If you purchase an Antelope audio interface and connect it to a PC, it'll have to run via USB.
 
If you're looking to go Thunderbolt with your audio interface, make sure to read all the fine details.
 
To my knowledge, only three companies have "PCIe via Thunderbolt" drivers actually available for Windows.

• MOTU with their AVB series
• UA with the newer Apollo series
• RME with the Fireface UFX+

 
For PCIe level performance from Thunderbolt, you need the following:

• Motherboard that offers Thunderbolt-3 (via USB-C port)
• Up-to-date install of Win10
• USB-C to Thunderbolt-2 adapter
• Audio interface drivers that support "PCIe via Thunderbolt"

Not sure what's happening, my 2nd answer was deleted. Here it is again, hope it won't appear as duplicate.
 

Jim Roseberry
 
To my knowledge, only three companies have "PCIe via Thunderbolt" drivers actually available for Windows.

• MOTU with their AVB series
• UA with the newer Apollo series
• RME with the Fireface UFX+

 

 
Focusrite has TB drivers for Windows in beta for the Clarett line: [link=https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-gb/articles/213525925-Clarett-Windows-Getting-Started]https://support.focusrite...indows-Getting-Started[/link]
 
TB3 PC to Clarett via adapter: driver in preparation, does not work yet.
 
I don't understand what you say about TB2. You will be perfectly able to drive a TB 1/2 audio interface from a TB2 PC, as long as drivers are available.
 
TB3 to TB2 is not guaranteed, as the port is physically different. However, some TB3 + TB2 adapter do work, if not officially, see my post above.
 
For an example of TB3 PC to TB2 audio interface that works (with Apple 30$ TB3-TB2 converter), see https://youtu.be/9fdM9j70PSc
It's a NUC to UA Apollo.
 
 

Duplicate post

Jim Roseberry
FWIW, Your post is lacking some important details.  
 
ANY audio interface that is running under Windows via Thunderbolt-2 is running "Firewire protocol via Thunderbolt"... not "PCIe via Thunderbolt".  
Microsoft does not support "PCIe via Thunderbolt" for Thunderbolt-2 (only Thunderbolt-3).

Can you please post links to sources that confirm this?
 
Have you looked at the videos linked ?
UA Apollo TB works really well with both a TB2 Windows computer and a TB3 Windows computer, at least with pro tools.
 
I found an interesting & long thread on Gearslutz on TB support in Windows 10, with someone from Microsoft participating. I'll read it in full, at the latest this weekend.
 
Cheers
https://www.gearslutz.com...port-windows-10-a.html

I wouldn't make any big investment right now. I read yesterday that the people that developed TB3 and own the rights will be dropping the license fee next year and open it up to the market. They want some saturation in the I/O market and figure making it royalty free will encourage manufacturers to adopt it for computer design and make it more popular for 3rd party developers. This could change a lot in the PC world.

vladasyn
Thank you for the good information. By the time I read this thread, I called to Antelope and to my disappointment, they told me that if I want to use their new goliath. $7000 interface, I would have to use it with USB3. They claim that it works as good as Thunderbolt. What you think about this option?
 
This makes me wonder:
"PCIe to Thunderbolt adapters, Thunderbolt to FireWire adapters, and Thunderbolt hubs are not tested or supported and may cause unexpected behavior."
 
My motherboard, Rog Maximus Hero Z270 has USB-C port and connector for Thunderbolt 3. It would need a PCIEX4 card to use Thunderbolt 3, and I still not sure how it connects to USB-C- does it mean that the USB-C will be taken (in use)? So what do they mean by PCIe to Thunderbolt adapter? My motherboard has port but not a card, so is this card considered to be PCIe adopter or not?
 
The reason I wanted to go with Antelope is because I am a keyboardist and I have many keyboards- currently all my 24 tracks on Presonus FireWire mixer are taken. I need new interface to connect all my keyboards in stereo. I am not sure if I can trust UAD Apollo 16 and Apollo 8 or 8p connected together to work flawlessly as one. Or would it?
 
I also noted on AUD site it said- Apple adopter is not working, to find something else.

The best USB-2 audio interfaces are pretty close in performance to Thunderbolt-2 audio interfaces.
ie:  The RME Fireface UFX offers 4.3ms total round-trip latency at a 48-sample ASIO buffer size/44.1k.
The UA Apollo yields ~4.4ms total round-trip latency at a 32-sample ASIO buffer size.
 
USB-3 has plenty of bandwidth... 
Thus far, we've yet to see any USB-3 audio interfaces that best the low-latency performance of the best USB-2 units.
If Antelope delivers round-trip latency (and rock-solid performance) equal to the RME Fireface UFX, I have no doubt you'd be happy with the Goliath.
 
Asus chose to make Thunderbolt-3 an AIC (add-in-card) option for their motherboards.
Gigabyte offers Thunderbolt-3 directly on select motherboards.
I prefer the later... (but it doesn't affect performance)
 
Regarding the disclaimers:
I'd tested the Apple Thunderbolt-3 (USB-C) to Thunderbolt-2 adapter with several machines (2017 MacBook Pro, our Platinum Laptop, our Platinum Studio DAW).
Using a new UA Apollo, the Apple adapter worked in every scenario.
 
The UA Apollo series (connected via Thunderbolt) doesn't break new ground as far as lower round-trip latency, but the units work well.
The specs UA publishes are real.
I measured the noise-floor of the Apollo Twin Duo mkII... and the average noise floor was below -116dB.
 
A single Goliath vs. a pair of Apollos would be a tough decision.
You'd have about the same round-trip latency... and equally great fidelity.
Both offer DSP processing.
 
If looking at Thunderbolt based audio interfaces (running under Windows), make sure to know all the fine details.
 

HighAndDry
I am looking for a thunderbolt 3 motherboard to use with my motu 1248 avb.  any tests done with motu Jim?  also, those boards seem pricy.  
http://www.microcenter.co...d_with_USB_Type-C?ob=1

I guess there are cheaper.  Another question.  any socket 1150 that work?

Thunderbolt (on the PC side) is somewhat of a "luxury" option... so it's typically only available on higher-end boards.
At the moment, LEDs are all the rage.  
 
Microsoft only supports "PCIe via Thunderbolt" with Thunderbolt-3.
Unfortunately that eliminates all motherboards with Thunderbolt-2.
 
If all the following is in place, Thunderbolt-3 will work great.

• Z170/Z270/X99 motherboard that provides Thunderbolt-3 via USB-C port
• Audio interface that has full "PCIe via Thunderbolt" drivers actually available
• Up-to-date install of Win10
• USB-C to Thunderbolt-2 adapter

MOTU has full "PCIe via Thunderbolt" drivers for the AVB series.
There have been reports that the Apple USB-C to Thunderbolt adapter (relatively inexpensive) has been problematic.
We've had good luck with the Apple USB-C to Thunderbolt adapter.
Tested it with several different audio interfaces... using many different motherboards and laptops... and it always worked fine.
 

Unfortunately, that motherboard doesn't have Thunderbolt-3.
 
It gets confusing...
A motherboard can have USB-3.1 and not have a USB-C port or Thunderbolt-3 controller (which is the case for that motherboard). 
A motherboard can have USB-3.1 and USB-C port/s... and still not have a Thunderbolt-3 controller.
Many current generation motherboards fall into this category.
 
Your choices are Z170, Z270, or X99 chipset motherboards...
Nothing prior to that will provide Thunderbolt-3.
 
 
 

My post keeps disappearing! Why?
 
Thanks again for good information. When I was visiting Antelope web site, I signed preorder for Orion Studio HD and Goliath HD just to know when it becomes available. So now Orion Studio HD is available for Preorder and they contacted me. We had some e-mail conversation regarding the number of inputs and outputs and no Thunderbolt. I learned that the company's headquarter is in Bulgaria. I do not know where they manufacturing their product and what technology style they using but I have mixed feelings about European, especially East European electronics. I am from Ukraine, and I grew up using Russian and Ukrainian audio equipment and it was always good. Massive metal casing, many metal parts... good sound quality, about 5 years life cycle. After 5 years it usually would begin getting noisy. I understand why I liked Goliath interface- it looks solid and European.
 
They confirmed that they not going to have Thunderbolt for Windows any time soon, but that USB3 works as good as Thunderbolt and there is no latency. I will take their word for it. But the price is nearly impossible. I tried to convince myself that $7000 one time is not that bad, that I will use it for many years, that it is time to grow up and get Class A audio interface... but when it is close on the horizon and almost time to open my bank account, $7000 looks huge. I don't know if I want to do it.
 
I was looking in to like Orion HD and Orion 32HD combination, but that comes close to 7k as well. I was asking them about HDX connection. I am NOT a Protools user, but I wanted to know if I cam use HDX port to connect 2 Orions to each other to make it work as one. They said- they will have to test it- they don't know. How can they not know?
 
Can I buy Protools PCIe card with HDX connector and not use Protools software? (My guess- no). And if not- why cant I connect 2 HDX units to each other? Must be again- need for some Protool software element. One more reason to hate Avid.
 
I totally don't know what to do. I need high Inputs count for my hardware synths. I need at least 30 TRS inputs and 2 mic Preamps.
 
Nobody else makes 32 inputs interfaces, but Orion as well as Motu 16 ins versions have no headphones outputs!!!! I use headphones for everything. Any suggestions?
 
Is there any hope that Universal Audio will release something in summer NAMM? I only think it because they have big promotion with "will give $3500 in software if you buy our interface before June 30th". Why June 30th? Thank you.    

Thank you for your reply.
 
I was looking in to Antelope Audio or Universal Audio because it "supposed to be" Class A gear. I am not sure how much better my mixes would sound but I remember the difference when I switched from Helix Phonic to Presonus. When I was using Phonic, I thought it sounded ok. Now that I am used to Presonus, I open older songs recorded with Presonus and I hear difference- everything is grainy as if it had lower sample rate. Actually it was 16bit.
 
Always wondering why my mixes still sound as project recording, not professional. Yeah, I know- it is plugins and experience, but I have almost all leading plugins on the market and 20 years of experience of doing MY project- why is it that I still can not get it right?
 
So I thought- may be I need to buy Protools rig? That way I will sound like a professional? I don't know if it is Windows or if it is Sonar algorithm, but every track has waaay too much bass, I spend too much time EQing everything. The only reason I did not install Protools is that I use many software synths and Protools not able to run VST and I don't have AU installed for anything.
 
So MOTU always had a reputation of being Mac interface and I remember multiple posts on the forums of users having problems on Windows. Also I remember MOTU back when they started. At that time, there were 2 options: M-Audio or MOTU. I was using M-Audio, and used to not take it seriously. To me- MOTU and M-Audio are Class B gear for beginners and project studios. I want to try the real deal Class A gear. Please, prove me wrong. Do you think MOTU is Class A gear? I don't fall for the "high price = good quality." I think $7000 for Goliath is overkill. This is why I cant decide. But I would have hard time to think of MOTU as Class A. To me it is consumer level interface. But then again. My keyboards are old, many of them not class A on output.
 
It would be great if somebody wrote the audio driver that allows multiple audio interfaces to be connected at the same time. Windows driver used to be able to do it. Why is ASIO only able to recognize one unit I don't know.
 
Thank you.  

I find it hard to believe that AVB will not work on windows