Timing drifting the further I get into a song

I'm confident this most likely has to do with a sample rate issue, but I can't seem figure it out.  I know some probably think I'm crazy, but I do my tracking on my Alesis HD24 recorder (old school I know) then transfer the tracks and mix in the box.

I have a new song set up at 94 bpm and have programmed my drums using Superior Drummer 2.0.  I have tried several ways to get a scratch drum track onto a track of the Alesis HD24...so I can lay down my acoustic tracks without having to sync up Sonar every time...ie monitor the scratch drum track off the HD24 while recording guitars etc.

Now, I have everything sync'd using my Alesis BRC as the master generating SMPTE 30 fps non drop.  The BRC controls both the HD24 and Sonar (Sonar via a MOTU MTP USB interface).  Sonar SMPTE is also set up for 30 fps non drop.

This setup has always worked perfectly for me when using hardware synths including drums (using D4 drum modules).  My problem is...the software synth (Superior Drummer 2.0) track drifts out of sync the further into the song I get when I import my audio tracks into Sonar and play them back with the (live) Superior Drummer tracks.

I have tried recording the drum track in real time to the HD24 using the output of my sound card into the console, then bussed to a track on the HD24....all sync'd up via SMPTE....that doesn't work.

I have tried "exporting" the drum tracks into a mono track, then transferring that wav file to the HD24....that doesn't work.

I have tried exporting it NOT using fast bounce....no difference.

Everything is set up at 48K 24 bit, so I would think it all should play nice together...but it doesn't.  The further into the song it gets...the more it drifts out of sync.

The strange thing is....if I stop the song say at 1:00 into the song....then start it up again from there everything is in sync until it plays for a bit...usually very noticeable within 45 sec of playing.

I know I have other options...I could just record directly to Sonar (would probably need to get an audio interface with more ins and outs).  I could keep using my hardware synths (defeats the purpose of buying Superior Drummer, and having the vast selection of soft synths within Sonar).  Or I could just monitor the drums by syncing up Sonar every time I record an audio track.  This option is OK...but it bugs me as to why I can't get the sync issue figured out.

Just curious if you guys and gals might have any insight as to what would cause this.....?

It all seems like a very round about way of creating a project. What is so important with the Alesis HD24 that you could not do in a DAW.

I would rebuild the system entirely around a DAW and do everything in that. You might be asking for trouble trying to sync things up as it is obvious you are having some issues. The good thing about only one system doing all the recording is that you should never have any sync issues and it seems like you inclined towards the virtual instruments anyway.

If you complete a project for example does this mean you have stuff in the HD24 and other stuff in your DAW. This is not a good situation. Keep your HD24 for recording live gigs. That is what is primarily designed to do or what it does really well. 

I just had a thought too. If you need multiple INS and OUTS is here any way  you can use the converters in the HD24 as a means of getting in and out of your DAW. eg ADATs are always live in that any input signals are automatically routed to the lightpipe OUT connection and anything received at the lightpipe IN connection is routed direct to the ADAT analogue outs. ie ADATs can be effectively used as an 8 IN / 8 OUT sound card.

Just throwing another idea out.
In the sync page in sonar preferences, there is a tab for freewheel  or chase lock. Is that also set up?

Wow. What a convoluted recording scheme...

I had the same problem once until Irealised that my transferred wave files were net properly aligned. Zoom in tightly to the start of each audio file and see if it is exactly at the starting point. This means that you will have to zoom in and slowly scroll across the time line to make sure all of the music is at the proper starting point.

Peace

Thanks again for all the tips and suggestions.  I think I finally figured it out.  At first I didn't think that exporting the drum track worked....but in fact I think it will.  My original acoustic guitar tracks did not stay in sync when imported into Sonar...but that was because they were recorded while monitoring the drum track that I had recorded in real time to the HD24 while sync'd to SMPTE.  Even the drum track I had recorded to the HD24, when imported back to the PC drifted out of sync with the original Superior Drummer tracks.

If I export the drum tracks at 48K 24 bit (which is how I record to the HD24) and re-record my guitar tracks with that...I think everything will sync up fine.  Hardware synths do no drift at all and stay locked up tight.  The soft synths are what drifts when trying to record to the HD24 while syncing to SMPTE.  Strange but true, though I can't figure out why :) .

And yes...my way of doing things may sound convoluted to some...but it works for me.  I do 90% of my recording by myself.  And if I have my tracks on my HD24 I can sit in my isolated studio room and control everything in the control room by remote control.  I have two BRCs...one in the control room and one in the studio, but I can also just use the LRC since I have my studio wired for both.

Jesse...thanks for the tip, but this problem was the fact that everything started out sync'd during playback...but slowly drifted out of sync.

Bottom line is....I can't record soft synth tracks to the HD24 in real time while sync'd to SMPTE or they will be out of sync when played back either from the HD24 while sync'd to SMPTE, or if imported to the PC.  Hardware synths do not have to problem.

Thanks again...I learn something new about soft synths every day.

UPDATE:
Did some more testing on the timing problem.  I programmed a scratch drum track using my Alesis D4 drum module.  Then recorded that drum track to my HD24 recorder while sync'd to SMPTE via the BRC...(everything set at 48Khz 24 bit and SMPTE at 30 fps ND)

Recorded a couple of acoustic guitar parts while monitoring the D4 drum track off the HD24.

I transferred these tracks from the HD24 to Sonar on the PC.  I muted the D4 drum track and played the Superior Drummer track with the acoustic guitar tracks.  Everything plays back perfectly in sync using the internal clock in Sonar.

Now here's where it gets crazy.  While playing back the exact same tracks, I put Sonar in SMPTE sync mode...hit play on the BRC (HD24 tracks muted)...everything starts playing in Sonar again.  BUT....after about 45 seconds, the Superior Drummer track starts drifting out of sync.  Within 1:30 into the song it is REALLY out of sync to the point of a bad slap back sound.

So...soft synths play back in perfect time using the internal clock but drifts out of sync when sync'd to SMPTE....hence the original problem I was running into at the beginning of this thread.

I haven't tried mudgel's suggestion yet...but will do that the next chance I get.

I am leaning toward doing everything in the box.  It's just that my whole system has worked perfectly in sync for years....until I started trying to use soft synths.  That is where the issue comes into place.  I can sync up the BRC with the HD24 and Sonar, and record tracks from my hardware synths to the HD24, all sync'd to SMPTE...then transfer the files to the PC and everything is in perfect sync with everything else in Sonar.

I agree with Jeff...   
Use the HD24 as A/D and a backup.
If your DAW is well configured, it'll be just as rock-solid... and you've eliminated a lot of busy work.
BTW, Look inside the HD24 (or other standalone HD recorder).  Looks an awful lot like a PC!  

SToons...I saw that thread...I'm not sure if it was referring to my thread or not...actually don't think so, just coincidence I think.

I too still have an MQX-32M but haven't used it in many years.  I moved up to a Music Quest 8PortSE and used it every since, until I built my last DAW PC.  It doesn't have a parallel port so it doesn't work with newer motherboards.  I do have a WIN7 driver for it (written by a guy in Europe) but since I can't use it with my new build...I got a used MOTU MTP AV USB.

Both have always worked solid as a rock...until I started trying to use soft synths while sync'd to SMPTE.  I have my "problem" figured out...though not solved :) .