Crg
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That's relevant point Kalle. A lot of people come here expecting a team of engineers who will provide every solution asked for. As well as train the poster in what to do. Reading the F-ing Manual isn't fun, they're trying to make music and money and want answers now. It can get a bit annoying. This is a big program we use, it has a lot of variables, as does music, as does the individual experience of using it at a multitude of locations, all unkown to the forum posters.
Trying to clear something up with someone can cause enough stress to ignite "the war".
Yuh.
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SteveStrummerUK
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I'm sorry, but who decides what level of proficiency a poster needs to have attained before he can ask a question?
Or what make's a certain question 'valid' or not?
Just help who you want to help, in whatever way you want to help them. Or not, for that matter.
If you think someone doesn't 'deserve' a helpful reply because they haven't put in the groundwork just move on and leave it unanswered.
I'll carry on helping whoever I can, whenever I want, whatever their level. Unless they're rude. That's my only proviso.
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Crg
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SteveStrummerUK
I'm sorry, but who decides what level of proficiency a poster needs to have attained before he can ask a question?
Or what make's a certain question 'valid' or not?
Just help who you want to help, in whatever way you want to help them. Or not, for that matter.
If you think someone doesn't 'deserve' a helpful reply because they haven't put in the groundwork just move on and leave it unanswered.
I'll carry on helping whoever I can, whenever I want, whatever their level. Unless they're rude. That's my only proviso.
Nobody decides that. Some people are going to go off on it. No reaction is the best reaction. RTFM comes next. Some people are going to go off.
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Rodar6
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I think that RTFM translates in 'I can't be bothered to give you an answer' but I'm gonna get your hopes up by replying anyway.
May be something like its on page 234 with good luck would be better.
As mentioned not everyone can actually read and some people get into playing music because they see it as a way of channeling negative energy picked up from have things such as learning difficulties.
Plus not everyone is a read the manual type of learner. Musicians are usually auditory learners which explains a lot.
A forum where we could upload auditory responses would be good : )
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julibee
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The thing about RingTFM... Unless you ARE able to absorb the information cover to cover* and suddenly become a genius, it is sometimes extremely difficult to know what something is CALLED to even FIND IT in the manual.
Suppose you come to DAW A from DAW B. What is the likelihood that something you knew as a Fuzzle in A will be called such and act in the same way in B? In my experience, the chances are slim. Sure, there are universal recording techniques and naming conventions, but if you don't know DAW, you don't know DAW.
Help or don't help. Your choice. Don't be a jerk.
*room full of men, and we are talking about reading manuals. Pardon me while I giggle quietly in the corner and ask a stranger for driving directions....
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SteveStrummerUK
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Rodar6
I think that RTFM translates in 'I can't be bothered to give you an answer' but I'm gonna get your hopes up by replying anyway.
May be something like its on page 234 with good luck would be better.
As mentioned not everyone can actually read and some people get into playing music because they see it as a way of channeling negative energy picked up from have things such as learning difficulties.
Plus not everyone is a read the manual type of learner. Musicians are usually auditory learners which explains a lot.
A forum where we could upload auditory responses would be good : )
Even better, a picture paints a thousand words Rod. Not to blow my own trumpet, but it took me nigh on two hours to put THIS reply together. But the guy's one line thank you was worth every minute of that!
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backwoods
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That was a SUPERB reply you gave to that guy stevestrummer.
Another excellent avenue for new learners are the cakewalk tv cakewalk university videos. I agree that some people learn more easily visually or aurally.
But I don't think we say that anyone who posts on this forum cannot read- it hink that would be unprecedented.
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SteveStrummerUK
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julibee
Help or don't help. Your choice. Don't be a jerk.
I couldn't agree more Jules. julibee
*room full of men, and we are talking about reading manuals. Pardon me while I giggle quietly in the corner and ask a stranger for driving directions....
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Crg
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Well, I think we've made some discoveries as to how "touchy" the subject matter is, haven't we? Well isn't that special?
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Bristol_Jonesey
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SteveStrummerUK
Rodar6
I think that RTFM translates in 'I can't be bothered to give you an answer' but I'm gonna get your hopes up by replying anyway.
May be something like its on page 234 with good luck would be better.
As mentioned not everyone can actually read and some people get into playing music because they see it as a way of channeling negative energy picked up from have things such as learning difficulties.
Plus not everyone is a read the manual type of learner. Musicians are usually auditory learners which explains a lot.
A forum where we could upload auditory responses would be good : )
Even better, a picture paints a thousand words Rod.
Not to blow my own trumpet, but it took me nigh on two hours to put THIS reply together.
But the guy's one line thank you was worth every minute of that!
Steve, that was excellent mate - I didn't see it first time around - I can see why it took so long to put together.
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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paulo
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Whilst I agree with some of the points above re RTFM etc, it has to be said that there are some pretty thin-skinned people around here too.
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SteveStrummerUK
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Bristol_Jonesey
SteveStrummerUK
Rodar6
I think that RTFM translates in 'I can't be bothered to give you an answer' but I'm gonna get your hopes up by replying anyway.
May be something like its on page 234 with good luck would be better.
As mentioned not everyone can actually read and some people get into playing music because they see it as a way of channeling negative energy picked up from have things such as learning difficulties.
Plus not everyone is a read the manual type of learner. Musicians are usually auditory learners which explains a lot.
A forum where we could upload auditory responses would be good : )
Even better, a picture paints a thousand words Rod.
Not to blow my own trumpet, but it took me nigh on two hours to put THIS reply together.
But the guy's one line thank you was worth every minute of that!
Steve, that was excellent mate - I didn't see it first time around - I can see why it took so long to put together.
Thanks Col. When I started out with Guitar Tracks 2, this was how guys like Bob (= RobertB), Del (= 'Doc' Hollingsworth), James (1213) and a few others (Randy & Beag spring to mind) used to help me out. I'd never owned a PC or even a four-track before I took the plunge into digital audio and the GT manual was about 6 pages all told. I didn't even understand any of it. I'm pretty useless with an instruction manual, but give me an interesting audio-visual and I soak stuff up like a sponge. As I say, the guys who helped me get started didn't have to, but I'm so thankful that they did, I feel I owe it to them to do the same for others.
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spacey
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Ok...I went to find out what was interesting about it....
I find it interesting that somebody that would spend $500.00 for software for their first shot...I don't
think I've ever met anybody that would do that. I'd kinda like to meet him. I'm betting Randy would too.
Although I fully understand and agree with Julibee that terminology can be an issue in solving problems via the
manual....in this case, no. Mono/Stereo and panning are terms that the OP could have looked up and solved
the problem. If not....he's in for one hell of a trip. A $500.00 Cakewalk stroke I'm thinking.
Another interesting thing- people will flip their wigs if you try to type what people think......code seems to
be not only an effective way around censorship but also gives folks a good feeling knowing they can get away
with telling someone - in code mind you- to go F themself. Know only the most experienced code master understand
and get that special code master nirvana feeling and chills. ( and for 50 cents and the bar code from their favorite box
or cereal can receive a code master ring...envy of the neighborhood we're talking) Not to mention...avoiding the forum police
and TOS moderators....code masters make everything groovy.
Another interesting thing, that I already knew, is how anybody that gets upset is "thin skinned"...and really
has no reason. lol and then everybody starts talking about the reasons that upset them the OP and everybody else.
Another...how even on the internet there are rubbernecks. Like if ya had a tune that you really wanted a lot of hits
on just get somebody to join in and give you a **** of a time and tell ya to RTFM and learn how to use a compressor
right.....they will come from miles around LOL. Just keep bringing up sections about the tune so they have to listen again!
Interesting.... methods to get people to listen and critique your music.
Another interesting thing about it....I guess "panning" kept it from being flushed down here. +++! but somehow it made
it anyway LOL.
Well it was obviously more interesting than the Ghost Hunters or whatever they're called. Funnier too...and that's saying something cause those dudes are funny...especially when they scare themselves. A cat left in the house about sent them to the hospital...funny ****.
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craigb
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Hehe... Juliebee said "Fuzzle!"
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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Kalle Rantaaho
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To me a relevant question is one that somehow indicates that the OP is trying to solve the problem by himself.
A starter I hate is like: " I've been googling around and tried everything, but I can't get softsynths working!!"
One like: " I've read the Manual /wathched the CW video about inserting soft synths, but I just can't get my head around this part:XXXXX" is the type that instantly awakes my will to help.
I don't think it's inpolite or rude to clearly guide the newbs to sensible forum behaviour and a "disciplined" way to start the hobby. "RTFM" is rude, but "Reading the manual is worthwhile" is OK.
I also like: "Which part of the manuals explanation did you not understand?" when I clearly smell that the OP is here just to be spoonfed.
That's a problematic one when something like LE version is in question, though, because there's no specific Help file/Manual for it.
SONAR PE 8.5.3, Asus P5B, 2,4 Ghz Dual Core, 4 Gb RAM, GF 7300, EMU 1820, Bluetube Pre - Kontakt4, Ozone, Addictive Drums, PSP Mixpack2, Melda Creative Pack, Melodyne Plugin etc. The benefit of being a middle aged amateur is the low number of years of frustration ahead of you.
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Glyn Barnes
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Rodar6
May be something like its on page 234 with good luck would be better.
This is an approach I use, usually when I have seen a question and think "I would like to know the answer to that myself." I will the search the manual and post the page number, maybe or maybe not adding some further explanation. It's worth doing as you learn a lot yourself that way. However if I know the answer I will probably be lazy and just tell them "click on the fuzzel button" or what ever. - That's probably what they want to hear but of far less value to them in the longer term. Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach him how to fish and you feed him for life. If some one can't read, chances are my answers are going to more unintelligible than the official documentation. I have a professional technical support roll. I am supposed to encourage people to RTFM (diplomatically) or search other resources. Usually the best way to do that is point people at the relevant sections and ask them to come back if they have any further questions.
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FastBikerBoy
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SteveStrummerUK
I'm sorry, but who decides what level of proficiency a poster needs to have attained before he can ask a question?
Or what make's a certain question 'valid' or not?
Just help who you want to help, in whatever way you want to help them. Or not, for that matter.
If you think someone doesn't 'deserve' a helpful reply because they haven't put in the groundwork just move on and leave it unanswered.
I'll carry on helping whoever I can, whenever I want, whatever their level. Unless they're rude. That's my only proviso.
Well said, and that's my MO too. I thought the only stupid question is the one that isn't asked. I'll try and help anyone, manuals for some are very confusing. As a true male, I of course have NEVER read one. 
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spacey
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I thought of another interesting thing to me. Naturally the forums are here for help. There are many issues that are cause for creating problems in itself. Some are caused by people and some are caused by the shortcomings of the forum software. The interesting part is that members that have been here for sometime know this. Knowing this it surprises me when they continue on in a thread that is....not going well. I realized a very long time ago it's very easy to avoid and still get the job done. Those that need help PM me. They feel I can help and I do. The other is I will PM them and give them the details. It saves them from all the BS. It may be that some may think....well then it's not posted for others...it's solving only for one instead of many...BS....the search function is just another problem to a new person. Well everybody has their own way of doing things. I find avoiding all the mess and still helping the one that needs it works fine. I'm thinking the one I'm helping now feels the same way.
post edited by spacey - 2012/11/17 10:13:55
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The Maillard Reaction
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The thing I like about getting help and helping via public forum is the fact that it can instigate collateral awareness.
PM help is a noble calling. It seems like a huge responsibility, to me, to commit to helping like that. Good for any and all that take on that task.
I find the public forum format rewarding because the collateral awareness is traveling in "all-kinda" directions and I find that I often learn stuff that I may have never thought about with out the varied inputs available in a public setting.
best regards,
mike
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Beagle
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spacey
Ok...I went to find out what was interesting about it....
I find it interesting that somebody that would spend $500.00 for software for their first shot...I don't
think I've ever met anybody that would do that. I'd kinda like to meet him. I'm betting Randy would too.
Although I fully understand and agree with Julibee that terminology can be an issue in solving problems via the
manual....in this case, no. Mono/Stereo and panning are terms that the OP could have looked up and solved
the problem. If not....he's in for one hell of a trip. A $500.00 Cakewalk stroke I'm thinking.
He stated he's using X1 Studio. That's not $500 software. if you bought it new, first time user, it was $199, IIRC. if you upgraded from, say, Music Creator 5 (which was $50 and it was not based on X1, so functionality was very different) then the upgrade was $149. not saying your point is invalid. but it's not exactly as you describe, either.
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bapu
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Where the eff is the Fuzzle Button in SONAR? I've googled and did RTFM and I cannae find it ANYWHERE.  I'm sure if I could use that button my life will be vastly improved.
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spacey
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I think it's good that there are options to helping.
I don't think of helping somebody by PM is noble or a huge responsiblity.
If they PM asking, recognizing that you may know and they can avoid the public BS
it's understandable. It's also easier to help them.
There are plenty to carry on "collateral awareness" and all that it has to offer....
I find it refreshing to solve a problem without all the BS and it's nice when resolved
without all the BS fallout.
Nice to have choices wouldn't you say?
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The Maillard Reaction
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Yes.
Absolutely.
It's also nice to see people actually exercise their choice, as you do.
:-)
best,
mike
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spacey
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Beagle
spacey
Ok...I went to find out what was interesting about it....
I find it interesting that somebody that would spend $500.00 for software for their first shot...I don't
think I've ever met anybody that would do that. I'd kinda like to meet him. I'm betting Randy would too.
Although I fully understand and agree with Julibee that terminology can be an issue in solving problems via the
manual....in this case, no. Mono/Stereo and panning are terms that the OP could have looked up and solved
the problem. If not....he's in for one hell of a trip. A $500.00 Cakewalk stroke I'm thinking.
He stated he's using X1 Studio. That's not $500 software. if you bought it new, first time user, it was $199, IIRC. if you upgraded from, say, Music Creator 5 (which was $50 and it was not based on X1, so functionality was very different) then the upgrade was $149.
not saying your point is invalid. but it's not exactly as you describe, either.
Excuse me. Thanks for clearing that up.
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Crg
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bapu
Where the eff is the Fuzzle Button in SONAR?
I've googled and did RTFM and I cannae find it ANYWHERE.
I'm sure if I could use that button my life will be vastly improved.
Pssst! It's the left mouse button, you use it all the time.
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SteveStrummerUK
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mike_mccue
The thing I like about getting help and helping via public forum is the fact that it can instigate collateral awareness.
PM help is a noble calling. It seems like a huge responsibility, to me, to commit to helping like that. Good for any and all that take on that task.
I find the public forum format rewarding because the collateral awareness is traveling in "all-kinda" directions and I find that I often learn stuff that I may have never thought about with out the varied inputs available in a public setting.
best regards,
mike
I can't remember who it was now, but ages ago I sent a PM to someone asking for some 'private' help with a problem I was having. It was something to do with Home Studio 6 and I really didn't want to look like a complete plonker in front of the likes of Daveny and Papa by posting my total newb question in the HS forum. The reply I got was that I should post the question in the forum (turns out it wasn't as embarrassing as I'd thought) and that the guy I'd PM'd would answer it there. His reasoning was that by answering the question in public it would add to the common knowledge base, and in any case, someone else was bound to ask it again sometime. That actually made a lot of sense, and I've often replied to PMs from others seeking assistance in the same manner. As Karl correctly points out, the daftest question is often the one that doesn't get asked. BTW Beag, was it you who I PM'd all those years ago?
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FastBikerBoy
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The reply I got was that I should post the question in the forum (turns out it wasn't as embarrassing as I'd thought) and that the guy I'd PM'd would answer it there. His reasoning was that by answering the question in public it would add to the common knowledge base, and in any case, someone else was bound to ask it again sometime.
That actually made a lot of sense, and I've often replied to PMs from others seeking assistance in the same manner.
I often advise that as well. Sure as eggs are eggs, there'll be someone else somewhere wanting to know the exact same thing at some point. Just a shame the forum search is so temperamental. I know it can be searched via the google site search but to use that you need to know how bad the search function is here in the first place. Anyway Steve, shouldn't you be practising bass solos and JJ pouts?
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SteveStrummerUK
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FastBikerBoy
Anyway Steve, shouldn't you be practising bass solos and JJ pouts?
My son and daughter are staying with me this weekend mate, so I haven't the time to practise... But the pouting, posing, snarling and general shape-throwing are all coming along nicely As if embarrassing two teenagers in Sainsburys wasn't enough fun already 
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spacey
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Hey....you don't have to defend helping on the forums...I'm not against it.
I'm glad it's the way it is. It's entertaining and informative.
I was just pointing out what I prefer.
Like the one that PM'd recently for help...I've done what I can for now....there's been no hassles or BS.
It's just nice that way to me. Nobody had the oppertunity to throw it off-track or disrupt it in anyway.
He knows there may be others that may give him additional info and how to ask if he needs too. No damage done.
FWIW if it would have been me you PM'd Steve, I would have tried to help you.
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Beagle
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SteveStrummerUK
mike_mccue
The thing I like about getting help and helping via public forum is the fact that it can instigate collateral awareness.
PM help is a noble calling. It seems like a huge responsibility, to me, to commit to helping like that. Good for any and all that take on that task.
I find the public forum format rewarding because the collateral awareness is traveling in "all-kinda" directions and I find that I often learn stuff that I may have never thought about with out the varied inputs available in a public setting.
best regards,
mike
I can't remember who it was now, but ages ago I sent a PM to someone asking for some 'private' help with a problem I was having. It was something to do with Home Studio 6 and I really didn't want to look like a complete plonker in front of the likes of Daveny and Papa by posting my total newb question in the HS forum.
The reply I got was that I should post the question in the forum (turns out it wasn't as embarrassing as I'd thought) and that the guy I'd PM'd would answer it there. His reasoning was that by answering the question in public it would add to the common knowledge base, and in any case, someone else was bound to ask it again sometime.
That actually made a lot of sense, and I've often replied to PMs from others seeking assistance in the same manner.
As Karl correctly points out, the daftest question is often the one that doesn't get asked.
BTW Beag, was it you who I PM'd all those years ago?
it might very well have been, I don't remember specifically, but I know that I have said that to people in PM"s before. I will usually try to help in the PM as well, but I'll often ask them to post it publicly, not only so that others can benefit, but also because I don't always think of everything and when it's posted publicly there are others who "have my back" so to speak!
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