Skarda


Well I feel like I am the only one that has a problem with the "new improved" multi click envelope lines. It use to be 1 point and click it is now...
   1) Shift click on a line to activate
   2) Point and click your edits
   3) Shift click on the track to deactivate.
   4) oops, need another node
   5) then do the whole trilogy of terror moves again...
Isolating an envelope should only be an option when needed.. not a regular way of doing business. I have mentioned this in other posts, and I am totally ignored. maybe I'm doing something wrong. It's very distracting also because after you isolate n envelope, and do your change, then you might scroll down in your project for a peek, then come back up and wonder why the isolated envelope track is grayed out, and remember "oh ya, I have to de-select the envelop... Anything that breaks your concesntration of the project is very distracting.. this will be an on going issue .

I hear ya, I'm mostly tracking with X1 right now, Im sure Ill be back around to express my frustration with this when it comes time to mix.  This has already bit me just doing a couple of quick tweeks.

Skarda


Well I feel like I am the only one that has a problem with the "new improved" multi click envelope lines. It use to be 1 point and click it is now...
   1) Shift click on a line to activate
   2) Point and click your edits
   3) Shift click on the track to deactivate.
   4) oops, need another node
   5) then do the whole trilogy of terror moves again...
Isolating an envelope should only be an option when needed.. not a regular way of doing business. I have mentioned this in other posts, and I am totally ignored. maybe I'm doing something wrong. It's very distracting also because after you isolate n envelope, and do your change, then you might scroll down in your project for a peek, then come back up and wonder why the isolated envelope track is grayed out, and remember "oh ya, I have to de-select the envelop... Anything that breaks your concesntration of the project is very distracting.. this will be an on going issue .

I agree completely... But I must note that I found if you shift-double-click on an envelope (which isn't currently selected) it will select and place a node where you click... so for at least some operations, little has changed (shift)

Skarda


Well I feel like I am the only one that has a problem with the "new improved" multi click envelope lines. It use to be 1 point and click it is now...
   1) Shift click on a line to activate
   2) Point and click your edits
   3) Shift click on the track to deactivate.
   4) oops, need another node
   5) then do the whole trilogy of terror moves again...

Skarda, why are you doing step #3 above, shift clicking to deactivate a track?  If you have several tracks with automation to edit, you can go straight from one automation line in a track to another automation line in a different track with no steps in-between.

So there are just two steps - shift click to choose the automation line to edit, and then the edits themselves.

Randy B.

Well.. personally  I am using the keyboard with one hand and the mouse with the other. I memorised some key combinations until I could use them without much thinking involved - what will happen soon enough if you are working with X1 on a daily base. Some things can be a extra mouse-click, but at the other hand a lot of things use less (in my case) - so in general I use the mouse the same or less than in 8.5.

Of course - this can vary according to different workfl... ehrr... "way to do things".

But Randy B. If you want to keep working within the same track that you have isolated an envelope, you have to shift click back in the track before you can move on... this is the more likely process.

Skarda


But Randy B. If you want to keep working within the same track that you have isolated an envelope, you have to shift click back in the track before you can move on... this is the more likely process.

Hello again, Skarda - I don't know what you mean.  You don't have to "shift click back in the track before you can move on."  Maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying, but it sounds like you're saying you have to do that in order to move to another track - like in your original post where in step 3 you shift clicked to deactivate.

---If that's what you mean, that isn't correct.  Say you have two tracks, each with automation.  You can keep going back and forth between the two tracks, editing a line of automation without doing any shifting.  It's a one handed operation going back and forth, all with the mouse.  You only shift click to choose a different line of automation, changing from volume to pan or whatever.

Randy B.

rainmaker1011


left click on the Snap button = toggle snap on/off
right click on the Snap button = change from the current Snap mode to either Snap by or Snap To respectively.

This is what I call simple and intuitive. One click, no long clicks, no double-clicks, no drop-downs.

Maybe in Sonar X5

I agree completely!

Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]

Yup - I stand corrected that the long click is indeed still 2 clicks.

While I'll contend that this situation is no worse than 8.5, I completely agree with you guys that it should be available on the "surface" of the Snap module itself and, frankly, I wanted it that way for X1.

FWIW - I will continue to advocate this.

Thanks Brandon...

If the click gets fixed so that it "remembers" the settings for TV vs PRV, it is a step forward for sure (from 8.5) as it's now visible without being as large and on top of another window (residing with controls as it should)...

I was thinking about how snap appears to be working tho buggy... At first I interpreted "Universal Snap" as a single value and that just plain out doesn't work for almost anybody... But as I noticed it seeming to "accidentally" change values I thought... Maybe I'm wrong and the single display will show whichever snap was set for one of two windows? Am I guessing correctly? It sure would be a releif to know...

...and if at some point by/to gets moved to 1st level it'll be even better!

Thanks for always being there for all of us...

Keni

...more clicks means more mice wearing out...means more mice....lighten up

I use my optical Logitech mouse since several years for everything on my PC.
But it will probably break after the release of Sonar X1.

LOL 

@Brandon, Keni and UnderTow
+1 on the one click solution on the suggestion list

Ahh, DAMN You Keni!!!
 
I thought this thread was about 2 CHICKS!
 
 

Keni


Funny... but that thought occurred to me when I saw it as a subject line... Glad it wasn't only me! ;-)

'twasn't only you, Keni.  So, here - now it's done.



RB

rbowser

Skarda


But Randy B. If you want to keep working within the same track that you have isolated an envelope, you have to shift click back in the track before you can move on... this is the more likely process.

Hello again, Skarda - I don't know what you mean.  You don't have to "shift click back in the track before you can move on."  Maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying, but it sounds like you're saying you have to do that in order to move to another track - like in your original post where in step 3 you shift clicked to deactivate.

---If that's what you mean, that isn't correct.  Say you have two tracks, each with automation.  You can keep going back and forth between the two tracks, editing a line of automation without doing any shifting.  It's a one handed operation going back and forth, all with the mouse.  You only shift click to choose a different line of automation, changing from volume to pan or whatever.

Randy B.

Exactly! My point... Most of the time you must now select prior to performing an operation (tho the select-dbl-clcik works to insert a node on an envelope)... these extra clicks to change what you're working on is a constant irritant/slow-down... Maybe as it get's debugged it will become more clear what I'm saving by doing extra work and spending more time to get the work done than previously...

While I can insert that node relatively the same, select-clicking on a clip doesn't always get me back to clip editing (bug?) and tho the envelope turns black (not-editable) the clips do not return to focus...?

Guitarmech111

Keni

John T


In a general sense, I don't find my work speed is reduced. Some things are still a bit awkward, and your example is indeed a good one, but overall, I am finding it a lot better than previous versions. Smart Tool and the Edit Filter have been massive changes for the better, for me.

What's weird to me is that other than this one issue plauging me about the smart tool, I don't see what's different than what I had before...? Using the draw tool with all the combinations we could tie to it with modifiers... It was always ready to locate/select/edit fade-ins/outs//etc... Is it the dragging zones to define an edit? I don't work that way... So for me that's now in the way of my work... that's the only difference and for me not a good one. I get much cleaner edits (ME!) doing them my way... and I still can but now it takes me twice as much "work" than it used to... so where's the advantage for me? None... One step back...

Having the snap visible is great... when it becomes fixed (and the issue of values for each window back to remembered - Separate for each window (TV/PRV)...

I don't use the multidock and I don't use audio lopps (grooveloops/acidized)... and I don't see a benefit to dragging my plugins across the screen to an fx bin instead of simply opening the effect IN the fx bin... So it's just a slightly buggy new synth rack for me...

The Inspector seems a bit better and with the loss of so many tools from various windows, now it's REALLY necessary... Buttons in one channel strip, but not in the other (Whether it's the TV, Inspector, or CV, all of the tracks controls should be in all view types!!!)

I can't see as many tools on screen overall... The clean look came at the sacrifice of my work methods... Big time... and I'm not happy about it (to put it mildly)... and as I continue to find little niceties here and there, I'm also constantly set back by these other issues... The next patch will come none-to-soon for me... and maybe this time even help me with some of my issues... X1a did nothing for me...

Sorry to bring all this up all over again... I didn't mean to... really... Just frustrated once again...

Keni

old farts, new tricks - I agree with your thoughts and frustrations Keni. X1 seems to be focused on the 'newer' user of this product and not the tried and true folks who have supported twelve tone for so many years.
 
I have always asked how these changes come about and who does  the group focus studies to see what the users want. It seems like some of the tried, true and consistant users don't get represented very well.
 
The double clicking and transitioned features are really inhibiting my zeal for X1.

Hi Conley...

Yes... There really are no "new methods".... The jobs are still the same. Much of the beauty of Sonar has been that many (if not most) jobs could be performed in many ways. so the user could choose what suited their' needs at the moment... I've cited many times... I Love shortcuts... but sometimes the mouse is easier to use... or the other way around...

In practical use there are many situations where one hand is tied elsewhere (modern one-person-studio-artist) so the work needs change... Or when one hand is on qwerty and the other on mouse... Being forced to 2-hands-on-qwerty and then back to one-on-mouse gets old VERY fast...

While new users may have some wonderful ideas, old users have a lot more experience... That doesn't necessarily make them better, but they've likely been in more "situations" and have a better overview...

Remember... While I might be an oldie, I work with many young, new artists and must help them with their' needs... this is NOT helping. I have yet to find a student less intimidated by learning a million shortcuts than using toolbars!

And I've developed quite an issue about smart tool... Other than the ability to slip-drag on the clip to define an area, I had at least as many capabilities with the 8.5 tools... and I didn't have to click twice for every locate/select operation! that one's driving me nuts!

Keni