UAD Plugins in FX chain are disabled on opening project in X3d but don't show as disabled

I have Sonar X3d producer, and version 7.4 of UAD's powered plugins.  Everything worked great in Sonar X2 with my UAD plugs, both in the FX bin and in the Prochannel FX chains.  After the X3 upgrade (all versions - x3b, x3c, x3d), every time I open a project which has UAD plugins inside an FX Chain in the Prochannel, the UAD plugins are not active (though they appear to be).  The blue button next to them is engaged, but I have to toggle the plugin off, then back on to get the plugin to 'engage' and audio to route through it.  If I do this with the UAD plugins individually, I can get them to 're-engage' one at a time, but I that's painful when I have 10+ instances like this per project.

One workaround I found was to add a new UAD plugin anywhere in a Prochannel FX chain - this seems to re-engage all the UAD plugins for the whole project at once.  You can then delete the one that just got added and all the rest of the UAD plugins for the project will stay enabled and engaged.  A bit of a pain, but much less headache than trying to disable/re-enable them individually every time you close/re-open the project.  Just to be clear, I've tried globally bypassing all FX and re-enabling them.  That doesn't work.  Neither does toggling the UAD button on/off on the UAD's control panel (this disables/re-enables all UAD plugs globally, but any that were 'disengaged' in the Prochannel FX Chain after re-opening the project will stay disengaged until they're individually disabled/re-enabled via the blue toggle button or a UAD plugin is added to an FX chain somewhere in the project).  Based on how my ACT controller sees UAD plugins differently if they're in the FX Bin or in an FX Chain in the prochannel, I'm guessing Sonar sees them differently and somewhere therein lies the problem...
 
I have also verified that this behavior does not happen if the UAD plugins are in the standard FX bin - they're enabled & engaged as soon as I close/re-open the project; but I like being able to use a combination of them in the FX bin and in FX chains in the Prochannel so this issue is getting to be a pain.

I had hoped the X3d patch would fix this issue, but it doesn't appear to have changed any of the behavior.  I upgraded my UAD plugins in hopes that would fix it, which it did not.
 
Any ideas on other workarounds or when this issue will be resolved (or if it's a UAD issue)?
 
Any ideas on when/if we'll be able to program a set of ACT controls for plugins and have them respond the same way whether they're in the FX bin or in a prochannel FX chain?

Other than this issue, I'm really loving X3, and especially X3d.

Thanks for all your hard work!

I have them set to rescan every time I open sonar but will try resetting them tomorrow and then rescanning and will report back. Thx

I checked again tonight and after resetting and rescanning my plugins, unfortunately I have the same issue.
 
I have, however, figured out a few more things with some testing, so hopefully that'll point you guys in the right direction.  I verified that adding any UAD plugin to a prochannel FX chain seems to engage all of the UAD plugins in that PC FX chain 'bin' that are already enabled, on all channels of the project, as long as they were cloned tracks.  It's as if the Prochannel FX Chain gets assigned a CLSID and all behave in a linked fashion with regard to UAD plugins in them when the channel gets cloned.  Adding a UAD plugin to one will 're-awaken' all of them that are in PC FX Chain 'bins' that share the same ID.  
 
However, if I clone a channel that has a prochannel FX chain with UAD plugins in it, then add a 2nd FX chain 'bin' & move the UAD plugins to it (so they're in a bin with a separate ID), save and close the project, when I re-open, I can't re-engage all the plugins at once by adding a UAD plugin to a PC FX Chain 'bin' like I could before.  Only those PC FX Chain 'bins' that seem to have the same ID as the original will 're-engage' when I add a UAD plugin.  Adding a non-UAD plugin doesn't seem to 'wake up' the UAD Plugins on that channel either - only adding a UAD plugin does it.  So, I guess that saves a bit of time if I have multiple plugs in a single bin, but really a lot of extra work at this time on projects that have a lot of this going on.
 
This is going to be painful using UAD plugs with Sonar X3 - real bummer as I love a lot of the new features and was looking forward to finishing this project in X3 when I bought the upgrade. 

Would it be helpful if I brought up the issue with UAD as well?  I'd love a solution from either/both of your companies and I'm happy to help troubleshoot as I have a bit of programming background & understand how to hunt bugs.

Thanks

Hi Alex, 
 
After noticing the issues I did all my testing in a brand new project, after the reset & rescan of all plugins.  I don't have the option to disable midi out for all synths because there aren't any midi or synth tracks/fx in this project - audio only.  I look for that option in the synth rack & there isn't one unless I add a synth...

Try renaming your AUD.INI file....

They're not exactly the same as the problems posted here, but my problems with UAD and Sonar X3 are documented in this thread started back on October 13. http://forum.cakewalk.com/Lovin-X3-But-Not-UAD-m2911112.aspx
 
I have contacted both Cakewalk and UA support about the malfunctions. Both responded that they are aware of the issues, but UA went so far as to say that a number of users are experiencing problems, they consider it a bug and they are working on a solution for an upcoming UAD update.
 
My investment in the UAD system is in complete limbo until a solution is presented. As much as I love some of the UAD plugins, I simply can't use them with my DAW of choice. I enjoy the features of X3 too much to go back to X2 (which has its own problem with the Ocean Way plugin resetting the distance on the "near" mic). Thankfully, X3 is so heavily packed with its own set of plugin's that I can still get work done.
 
Here's hoping that UA and Cakewalk put their heads together and help all of us UAD/Sonar users soon.

I tried again today on a fresh install of Sonar X3d, fresh install of UAD 7.4.0 (not a clean windows install, but fully uninstalled both Sonar/UAD, all drivers, all filesystem files/folders, every reg entry I could find, etc.), tried the trick from the other post about pointing VST plugin scan to x64 versions of UAD only (tried both UAD and Steinberg folder locations for x64), no change in results.  
 
I'll post to UAD support & flag both these threads as well, and hopefully between the two of them, Cakewalk and UAD can sort it out.  Considering everything works perfectly when I go back to X2, it makes me think it's a Cakewalk issue, or something CW changed in X3 that UAD hasn't 'caught up' to yet.  Either way, I'm hoping for a resolution soon.
 
Thanks for listening everybody.

Since X3 I never put UAD plugs in the pro channel fx chain ,,, But frequently have to reset the Global FX by pass to get them to sync back up  ,,,,,,, and When  UAD plugs just stop working I got to re open the project to get them back.
It sucks !!!!! All my projects  are running about 60 UAD plugins

Yes, in FX bin plugins are working, but we really need to put them in FX chain...

CakeAlexS
An alternative:
http://www.store.cakewalk.com/b2cgbp/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=30-BCPW1.00-20E
 

Alex, can you verify this works with the UAD stuff?  It will be irritating to shell out $50 for this, but I think it might be worth it for a couple of guys I know.
 

In reference to prog_head's question, UAD malfunctions on my system when used in the FX chain in the Pro Channel AND in the FX bin.
 
Unlike BlueRecording Studios, I am abandoning UAD for the moment, rather than Sonar. Several of the new X3 features have become must-have's for me.
 
UA support has indicated via email that they consider the UAD/Sonar problem a bug and it is on their list for fixing at UA, but they will not predict a time frame. For some reason, Cakewalk hasn't taken complete ownership of the problems, but they did say it has something to do with some things they're planning to address in future updates.
 
It's logical to reason that Cakewalk changed something between X2 and X3 that created the problems, but in my communications with both entities' tech support, UA is the only one saying specifically that they have it logged in their bug system and are working on a fix.

I bought the Bluecat Patchwork and started putting all my UAD stuff in that VST host which seem to fix the problem but at one point glitched out so bad I couldn't open my project until I uninstalled bluecat Patchwork.

I've gone so far as to completely remove ALL 32-bit plugin's from X3's scan list, but the UAD/Sonar problems remain the same.

Unfortunately, that response from UA shows they don't entirely understand the problem. They should know from my support request of almost 3 months ago that this does NOT only happen "with Sonar Prochannel FX Chains."
 
As I've made clear to UA, my problems with UAD and Sonar X3 are with UAD plugin's in the standard FX bin.
 
 

BluerecordingStudios
Cakewalk has long way to make X3 usable at this time if they are going to fixing minor and cosmetics issues {some color customization} and dont focus on real issues {UAD} and very important features {VST3 standard functionality}. I dont think it is so difficult to fix UAD stuff as in X2 it works perfectly.

 
Nope... Now fully confirmed as a UAD issue.
 

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Its possible that this issue is also a side effect of the plugin chaining API. All versions of SONAR since 8.5 use this custom UA API that we implemented for them years ago. 
 
I was in touch with UA fairly recently about this and their response was that this API is no longer actively supported by them at the host level and only used by them internally now. I was also told that they would add a remedy from their end. From our side I have now removed custom UA chaining support from SONAR for the next X3 update so hopefully this shouldn't be an issue going forward.
BTW this isn't really specific to X3 technically - the only reason that you see a difference in behavior is because the UAD driver seems to be testing for a specific SONAR version and masking the error messages - which is why the some UAD warning messages started popping up in X3.

 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/UAD-aux-sends-disabled-in-X3-and-where-the-buck-stops-m2961478-p2.aspx
 
Pie anyone?