Upgrading from SONAR 3 to X3 - a Sound Forgey question

I added Audition for the same functionality a short while ago, and found this post by mudgel which was very helpful. It still needs to be set up manually, and his example is specifically Sound Forge. (Use his post as reference against the link two posts above it)

Thanks for your quick replies chaps, but what I really want to know is whether such noise-reduction is available within SONAR either as a standard function or as a simple VST I can access without having to go via Sound Forge.
 
As I mentioned, I've been away from the technology for a long time and was hoping that this kind of audio clean-up was available as a standard.
 
Some of the things I've seen in X3 (Melodyne for instance) were virtually unthinkable when I last bought a system... the world has moved on!
 
Thanks,
 
Frink.

SONAR did include R-Mix in X2 which was useful for noise reduction although it used a different approach than the Sony Noise Reduction plug-in. R-Mix is no longer bundled with SONAR. If you have the Sony Noise Reduction plug-in bundled with Soundforge, it works in SONAR without launching SoundForge. 64bit SONAR would require SoundForge 10 or 11 to get the 64bit version of the Noise Reduction plug-in. If working a lot with noisy audio Izotope RX3 may be a good solution.

The best way for noise reduction is Izotope "RX3" or Waves "ZNoise" (RX3 is better). Both working as a VST inside Sonar X3.
It is the most expensive solution, but the best. You also take a bit of the noisy sound (noiseprint). You can apply it to clips or run it in realtime.

It will still integrate with Sonar. Even current versions of Sound Forge are only 32 bit but run fine on 64 bit OS. I use the integration between the 2 programs all the time.

Frink
re: the background hiss/buzz etc - maybe my best bet is to keep this as low as possible and gate it at source...

I have had intermittent luck with gating (depending on what the noise source is), as it can tear into the actual audio I want to record. I have defaulted to a method where I will intentionally record a 5 second lead-in and tail of "background noise" on everything to get a very defined noise footprint sample. Some initial processing can help, but be sure; but with an adequate S/N ratio in the recording, I have found the noise-reduction algorithm to be the best solution.

Sound forge will launch from the utilies menu in 64 bit Sonar. The Sound forge effects will not appear as available plugins.

I use reafir for this very thing. It's a vst that does the job well of subtracting noise and it's free. I have the sony noise reduction plug with SF, but seldom use it. I used to go back and forth from Sonar (I started with Sonar 3 as well) to SF numerous times during a project for cleaning up tracks. But now I never do really. I have a shortcut key assigned to open up the Gain command in X3 which I use for muting a click/pop or just general housekeeping when I don't want to add another vst/gate. I just select the portion of the track I want to clean, press cntrl-M in my case, and select mute from the drop down in the Gain command menu.
 
I still occasionally use sf to make a serious edit like replacing/duplicating a section of a clip. But I can usually swing that in X3 as well. Matter of fact, I don't think I've opened SF from the tools menu since X1 arrived. I personally just don't need to use sf like that anymore. SF is still a favorite for me to use as a mastering tool along with using it for it's great mp3 conversion. Again though, I can do all that in X3 and sometimes do.
 
With that said, one of my favorite feature requests I've sent is to have a dedicated audio editor tool as a part of sonar. Something like the old loop construction tool revamped for audio editing.
 
I think you'll really enjoy this latest version of sonar. Big step up in tools and work flow. And contrary to popular belief, the learning curve is not that bad. Lot's of the basic functions remain the same. Not all, but enough to keep you working while you learn.

Thanks Musicroom - A splendid forum reply on a number of levels!
 
I've been looking for a cheap and easy alternative for this noiseprint function and it looks like reaFIR has what I need. SF is a bit OTT if I'm only using 1 small part of its functionality (rather like employing the full London Philharmonic Orchestra to go 'bing' at the end of a song).
 
I'm looking forward to X3 - my last big leap was from ProAudio9 to SONAR 3 which I found to be a nice leap. I appreciate that 3 to X3 is a bigger leap but I'm loving the tutorials and reviews I've read and I can't wait to get going on Melodyne as I know that I sing permanently ¼ of a semitone out of key.
 
Thanks for your tip about gain shortcut. I have loads of tricks and bits and bobs that I do without thinking in SONAR 3 right now so I'm going to have to reconfigure a lot of this - particularly as (as you say) X3 can do a lot in-house - maybe there is no need for SF at all? Honestly speaking, I get almost as much pleasure from setting up a good efficient template and workflow as I do from making a great recording. A fun few months ahead...
 
late note: I also just noticed that I have an identical Ovation to the one in your avatar.
 
 
Frink.
 
 

btw, if you already have soundforge, i see no benefit of adding another editor.

Frink
Thanks Musicroom - A splendid forum reply on a number of levels!
 
I've been looking for a cheap and easy alternative for this noiseprint function and it looks like reaFIR has what I need. SF is a bit OTT if I'm only using 1 small part of its functionality (rather like employing the full London Philharmonic Orchestra to go 'bing' at the end of a song).
 
I'm looking forward to X3 - my last big leap was from ProAudio9 to SONAR 3 which I found to be a nice leap. I appreciate that 3 to X3 is a bigger leap but I'm loving the tutorials and reviews I've read and I can't wait to get going on Melodyne as I know that I sing permanently ¼ of a semitone out of key.
 
Thanks for your tip about gain shortcut. I have loads of tricks and bits and bobs that I do without thinking in SONAR 3 right now so I'm going to have to reconfigure a lot of this - particularly as (as you say) X3 can do a lot in-house - maybe there is no need for SF at all? Honestly speaking, I get almost as much pleasure from setting up a good efficient template and workflow as I do from making a great recording. A fun few months ahead...
 
late note: I also just noticed that I have an identical Ovation to the one in your avatar.
 
 
Frink.
 
 

 
I'm glad that was of some help.
 
I do love those guitars. They play and sound great both live and recorded! 
 
Keep us updated on how you like your new setup.
 
 

I'm actually more interested in where this noise is coming from, if it is on, as you say, "certain parts recorded by mic". The best way is still to fix it at the source. RX3 is supposedly great, I have the Waves noise reduction suite myself and have used it to good effect, but really only to clean up old tapes or try to fix someone's terrible recording. I would strongly recommend against using this as "standard practice" over simply preventing the noise in the first place.

Thanks Mettelus,
 
I was tinkering around with ReaFir last night and finally managed to get it to do what I need by using it in the FX bin of a track.
 
I would prefer to use it as a 'destructive operation' in Sound Forge so that my clip is forever clean - in my mind, this means less stress on SONAR as it won't need to be processing every time I play back. So far I haven't managed to get this working in Sound Forge yet - whenever I capture a noiseprint of a short section at the beginning of a clip, it gets overwritten before I can process the reduction across the whole track. I'll keep tinkering and googling on that one...
 
Of course I could use SONAR to create a noise-free processed duplicate clip and use this instead but I do miss the ease of popping over to Sound Forge and processing (in around 30 seconds as you mentioned in your comment about Audition earlier).
 
Regarding Sanderxpander's point about working out where the noise is coming from. It's actually pretty quiet in my small studio but I don't have expensive mics or means to buy them so, at the end of a track when there's 6 or 8 instruments fading out on their final note, the aggregated mic-hiss or amp-hum is JUST noticeable enough for me to want to kill it off. Using a free VST for clean-up is the best solution for me.

Okay... I just made a YouTube video of how I use Audition inside of SONAR X3. This is much easier than trying to explain it via text.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aclxPcBEQEc

Hey Mike, I am totally unfamiliar with Sound Forge, and "think" Frink is asking to simply do a (single) destructive NR pass on an audio file. Can that be done from the tools menu without running it as a plug-in?