Using analyzers

Hey just trying to get better at mixing. Have been improving a lot over the last while and just started to get into using analyzers and have a few questions.
 
First is there a good analyzer built into sonar? I have looked around and could not find anything.
 
Second, I got the VST Voxengo SPAN and it works great for showing me what is going on for 1 track but I was wondering is there a way you can use it to show all of your tracks at once playing but seperate them by color or something so you can actually see what tracks are filling up the frequencies without having to check one track at a time?

metalstorm


Hey just trying to get better at mixing. Have been improving a lot over the last while and just started to get into using analyzers and have a few questions.
 
First is there a good analyzer built into sonar? I have looked around and could not find anything.
 
Second, I got the VST Voxengo SPAN and it works great for showing me what is going on for 1 track but I was wondering is there a way you can use it to show all of your tracks at once playing but seperate them by color or something so you can actually see what tracks are filling up the frequencies without having to check one track at a time?

As CJ points out - and an easy way - put your analyzer(s) on the Master Bus (where all the signal ends up) and then just solo the tracks as needed to see.  
 
I think analyzers are critical - but I also agree with CJ that one shouldn't only use them  -- use your ears.
 
Analyzers are useful though -- but one has to realize how to use/read them as well.
 
Span is good.  It's free.  Sonar comes with Analyst -- not bad, but not a fully mature plugin in my opinion.
Visualizer, while not cheap, is excellent -- it's a 3rd party plugin that has a number of built-in analyzers (this is also my main Master Bus analyzer, btw).
 

Thanks for all the info guys, yeah still suck at mixing but already today just from using SPAN I have noticed a huge difference mainly in how much better I can get the bass to sound now.

Analyzers are also a good trainng tool.

As you start learning to mix its often difficult to hear subtle differences or hear the effect from a small change on one setting or another. In combination with the sound if you can see where the change occurs it will help develop your ability to hear subtle changes on color, pitch, frequency and tone.

Just a thought.

When I'm absolutely stuck on getting a good sound I'll the part of the mix I'm struggling with through Harbal

Hi Mike

That's great, can you explain how I route it correctly as I can't get it to work.  

I had assumed I just insert SPAN on a track and if I wanted to compare a second track I just send an insert from that track to one of the inserts in SPAN (insert 2 for example), and then if I wanted to view that I then press the group 2 button.   Is that correct or am I missing something as I can't seem to get it to work?

Thanks

Hi Fritzj

Thanks for that, really useful and interesting.   As you suspected the SPAN routing was actually fairly elementary. 

If anyone's interested, you just press the button marked "routing" that actually look like it's a drop down box and then set the input routing channels as A,B,C,D etc.   Then you can just send an insert from any track to one of the 3 inputs on the instance of SPAN you have loaded. You can then compare it against the original track SPAN is loaded on by choosing the corresponding "underlay group" button. Or you can compare and select it against any of the other groups if you have tracks routed to them. 

Span is so useful for those resonant frequencies that you want to track down and kill, mutilate or just lower their levels. Depending on your mood that day.

mike_mccue


""SPAN supports multi-channel analysis and can be set to display spectrums from two different channels or channel groups at the same time.  Spectrum's color can be chosen to taste."

And indeed SPAN does have 4 input channels that you can choose as inserts. Presumably you should be able to display different channels by choosing group buttons or choosing a group to underlay.  I say "presumably" as unfortunately I can't seem to get this to work and there doesn't seem to be any documentation about it.  Does anyone know how to set up this function or does it not work? "

Yes, it is a fantastic feature.

best regards,
mike

Thanks Mike I had not checked for a while but version 2.1 certainly does.
 
After your ears and a reasonably well conditioned mixing space I can highly recommend Span to give a fair visual view of what is going on.

SPAN, unfortunately does not support overlays from other SPAN instances the way GlissEQ does. GlissEQ is SPAN's elder sibling: SPAN is actually GlissEQ with the equalizer functionality stripped out.

Another SPAN tip: version 2 offers a "Master" mode, which gives an averaged output that works better (IMO) for fitting parts together spectrally.

I actually prefer the older version (1.9.1) of SPAN, if you can find a copy of that. I use it far more often than the newer version (2.1).

[EDIT] Hey, wookie, can you elaborate on "...version 2.1 certainly does"? I was not aware that he'd put that feature into SPAN. When asked about it in the past, Aleksy has said it's too cool a feature to give away for free.

[EDIT #2]I did a little research and it does appear that you can show multiple displays but it's not as convenient as with GlissEQ. Apparently you have to kludge it using its multiple-input feature.

[EDIT] Hey, Wookiee, can you elaborate on "...version 2.1 certainly does"? I was not aware that he'd put that feature into SPAN. When asked about it in the past, Aleksy has said it's too cool a feature to give away for free.
 
 [EDIT #2]I did a little research and it does appear that you can show multiple displays but it's not as convenient as with GlissEQ. Apparently you have to kludge it using its multiple-input feature.

 
My bad the comment was based on about 15mins with it at that point it looked good then having posted it became apparent that the multi display one does have to "kludge" it.
 
Have you got somewhere we can get 1.9.1 I only have 1.8?

Is there a way to see 2 different EQ plots on SPAN at the same time?  Would be handy to be able to compare a mix you are working on against a pro track in SPAN simultaneously - kinda like HarBal.

Dave King


Is there a way to see 2 different EQ plots on SPAN at the same time?  Would be handy to be able to compare a mix you are working on against a pro track in SPAN simultaneously - kinda like HarBal.

Not in span I think but other have the option of saving a snap shot which can be loaded.

Just a couple of comments to add to the already good stuff above:

(sorry, fairly long as some of this comes from my course section on mixing)

#1 Why do we mix - there is only one reason why ...
We mix to master.  The entire point of mixing is to complete that stage of the process and move a great mix to the mastering stage.  Knowledge of that defines and establishes the goals to set in the mixing stage.

#2 Establish targets to hit.  While much of the discussion focused on analyzers (which is the OP's title - but in the context of mixing), it is necessary to establish targets to hit in the mixing stage.  As discussed above tonal balance is a big one - I would only add that a frequency analyzer should be confirming what you hear, not influencing what you hear.  In other words - spending some time and money on your monitoring environment is far more valuable in mixing than any plug you'll ever buy.  I also prefer to preview a great sounding CD in my monitoring environment before I begin mixing.  We all have some great CD's and I use them to reference my room (I also follow Bob Katz's monitor positioning methods as well as RTA in the room to match the analysis in the box prior to mixing)  All of that effort ensures that what I am hearing is being confirmed by both analyzers (one in the box and the other in the room)  Obviously this tells me what's happening in the room and prevents me from making changes that don't translate to other environments in the mix.  I'd also add that once you have your room down, listen to good CD's in there for a day or two.  Inform your ears about what the room sounds like.  Humans are pretty smart and pretty dumb both at the same time.  Educating our ears to what a monitoring environment sounds like is what makes analytical tools useful.  I would only add on the spectrum side of the mixing target that I don't think in terms of frequencies when I mix unless I am solving problems - My initial approach to mixing is to work in octaves.  In other words I consider the 11 octaves and how they are being covered in the mix. I use Sound Forge's statistical analysis with three presets for full bandwidth, HPF and LPF settings.  I compare those statistics to other material with a good tonal balance and make my mix, EQ and compression changes accordingly.

There obviously are other targets in the mix stage - my comments here intend to focus on the spectrum side...

livin' the life in Sonar 8.5.3

Best

-D

Hmmm. Call me old fashioned, but I just tweak the appropriate knobs until it all sounds right.

Luddite!

I once knew an old electrician who'd test if a circuit was live by sticking his finger into a light socket. Old school, for sure. Me, I use a voltmeter without apologies.

Version 2.2 has recently been released.