Helpful ReplyUsing tracks for song arrangement info and markers

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VariousArtist
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2015/05/20 14:17:56 (permalink)

Using tracks for song arrangement info and markers

Here's my approach to labeling song sections, by repurposing a MIDI track and using its clips to indicate those songs sections (see image below).

Basically I create some dummy information on a new MIDI track, and then I extend out the MIDI Clip to represent a section of a song.  I can then use that clip to help select a section of the song for rearrangement purposes or just simply to identify the section more clearly.
 
True, I could use markers for this purpose, but I find they get very cluttered with all the notes I want to make.  However, by using a MIDI track for this information I can create as many tracks and spread out the marker type information (e.g. song sections, to do reminders, etc.)
 
I'd love to see Sonar incorporate non-audio/midi tracks that can hold this type of information.  What do you think? 
http://variousartist.com/sonar/PeterMatuchniak_Sonar_InformationTracks.jpg
 
 
 
It would be cool if we could have new types of tracks for these purposes:
 
Existing track types:
- audio
- MIDI
 
Suggested new track types:
- marker/arranger (song sections)**
- To Do list
- lyrics
- chords
- BPM ruler
- SMPTE ruler
- blank (for spacing large projects)
Etc
 
**Selecting an arrangement section would automatically select the entire set of tracks within that time-selection.  And moving that arrangement/marker clip would automatically move everything else too.  Simples!
 
Regardless, you would be able to add in multiple track types of the new kind.  So I could have multiple marker/arranger tracks (one could be used to describe low level song sections, such as verse, chorus, etc., and another could be high-level sections, such as part 1, part 2, etc.).  I could also add in multiple BPM/SMPTE ruler tracks so that these line up against any audio/midi track for ease of reading etc. (this would be especially useful if a I had a movie sound track that required noises at a particular time, whereas another audio track was lined up against an BPM ruler for musical purposes).  Etc
post edited by VariousArtist - 2016/06/06 18:22:57
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Using tracks for song arrangement info and markers 2015/05/20 14:39:30 (permalink)
Hi. I use this approach since someone posted a link to a Cakewalk NAMM video a while ago.  It's a helpful trick when doing arrangements, but I think Cakewalk could do much better than just implementing something so simple.
 
Please have a look a this feature request and vote for it as it goes much further ... and of course add your ideas and suggestions ...
Arranger tracks ala Cubase (http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3186917)

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BobF
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Re: Using tracks for song arrangement info and markers 2015/05/20 16:00:50 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2015/05/22 15:35:49

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VariousArtist
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Re: Using tracks for song arrangement info and markers 2015/05/20 17:59:05 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jimfogle 2016/06/10 12:02:08
A while ago I made a Feature Request for special purpose tracks that could be used for, um, special purposes.
 
From a simple "blank spacer" track (for easier viewing of large track projects), to being able to put in markers or clips much like I outlined above.  But there could be other uses, such as lyrics, etc.  And with assisting arrangements
 
I came up with my workaround years ago when clips were first introduced and were nameable, but I put in this feature request back then too, hoping it would catch on and expand.  Now that I see Studio One v3 has the arrangement feature and hoping a revisit will rekindle the interest and make it happen.
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BobF
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Re: Using tracks for song arrangement info and markers 2015/05/20 18:51:14 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jimfogle 2016/06/10 12:02:17
I also added a request for a new ruler to provide this functionality some time ago

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VariousArtist
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Re: Using tracks for song arrangement info and markers 2015/05/20 19:22:31 (permalink)
^ tracks as rulers would be another great idea. Sometimes I want a BPM ruler at the top but an SMPTE ruler next to the track that has time based hit points (rather than having them all smooshed together).

Basically when you add a track you can make it:
- audio
- MIDI
- arranger (song sections)
- To Do list
- lyrics
- BPM ruler
- SMPTE ruler
- blank (for spacing large projects)
Etc
#6
VariousArtist
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Re: Using tracks for song arrangement info and markers 2015/05/20 19:25:02 (permalink)
I just saw this link:
http://forum.cakewalk.com...spx?m=3223733&fp=2

Sorry for the redundancy;-)
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SMcNamara
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Re: Using tracks for song arrangement info and markers 2015/05/21 15:06:41 (permalink)
CW may feel compelled to add this feature sooner rather than later, since Studio One just included it in the new version 3:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZALHeAeOjM4
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Re: Using tracks for song arrangement info and markers 2015/05/21 16:15:20 (permalink)
VariousArtist
I just saw this link:
http://forum.cakewalk.com...spx?m=3223733&fp=2

Sorry for the redundancy;-)



No need to apologize.  I like the idea of a track ruler ...

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groovey1
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Re: Using tracks for song arrangement info and markers 2015/05/21 18:07:43 (permalink)
SMcNamara
CW may feel compelled to add this feature sooner rather than later, since Studio One just included it in the new version 3:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZALHeAeOjM4


Would definitely like to see something like this in Sonar. I also put in a feature request a while ago, but S1 takes it quite a bit further with its re-arranging capabilities. I'd be happy with enhancements to the marker/ruler that allow naming and coloring for sections. I find the MIDI track work-around is OK until you need to scroll.

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mettelus
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Re: Using tracks for song arrangement info and markers 2015/05/21 18:19:08 (permalink)
That video was rather eye opening for me. I like those features a lot.
 
Edit: This was released just yesterday and already has a demo of professional out?? LOL
post edited by mettelus - 2015/05/21 18:47:22

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Re: Using tracks for song arrangement info and markers 2015/05/21 20:50:10 (permalink)
I've set up key-bindings in Sonar so that my left and right arrow keys jump from marker to marker.  It's a really cool and quick way to navigate key sections of a song.  Very efficient workflow for me. 
 
The only downside to my workflow is if I add a lot of markers for different purposes, and that's where I'd like to realize the benefits of multiple "marker tracks".  If I could have one marker track for song sections, and another for my to-do list, and so on, then it would be great if my left-right arrow jumps could be context-sensitive to the marker track that has my focus.
 
These are some of the workflow enhancements I'd love to see.  The arranger idea is a special case for my suggestion though I think it would be a great benefit to moving sections of songs without having to specifically select those regions (which isn't bad to do now, but every little click saver helps).
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Re: Using tracks for song arrangement info and markers 2015/05/22 08:44:05 (permalink)
VariousArtist
I've set up key-bindings in Sonar so that my left and right arrow keys jump from marker to marker.  It's a really cool and quick way to navigate key sections of a song.  Very efficient workflow for me. 
 
The only downside to my workflow is if I add a lot of markers for different purposes, and that's where I'd like to realize the benefits of multiple "marker tracks".  If I could have one marker track for song sections, and another for my to-do list, and so on, then it would be great if my left-right arrow jumps could be context-sensitive to the marker track that has my focus.
 
These are some of the workflow enhancements I'd love to see.  The arranger idea is a special case for my suggestion though I think it would be a great benefit to moving sections of songs without having to specifically select those regions (which isn't bad to do now, but every little click saver helps).




Now I REALLY like the idea with the focus bit added.  I hope you capture this in an FR

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mettelus
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Re: Using tracks for song arrangement info and markers 2015/05/22 15:56:13 (permalink)
I spent some time with Seth's recommendation from #3 (used for physically moving song sections), just to determine best conditions for such. In a sandboxing phase this can be very useful, but needs some forethought into usage:
  • Using folders in very finicky, and not recommended. I think I got this to work, but is too painful to use practically.
  • Not for use with automation.
  • Markers to not move with doing this, but also not necessary if navigating via the section track (i.e. can jump through clips on that track rather than use markers).
In situations where only MIDI or audio data exists in each section, it is pretty clean, but still requires overhead for selecting tracks, and moving/inserting. Once a project gets too involved, it begins to lose usefulness (or add frustration) quickly.
 
From simply a visual tracking perspective, it works like a charm though (back to the OP's point).

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mudgel
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Re: Using tracks for song arrangement info and markers 2015/05/23 01:52:42 (permalink)
With the markers it would be great to be able to name the ranges defined by the markers.
Have those ranges appear in a browser tab and select to audition, move etc.
That's where the S1-v3 feature of then being able to move those ranges to a new composing window (scratchpad) is just genius.

If we could add those ranges to the mix recall window in a particular order you could easily rearrange a song and call up different versions of the actual song sections.

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VariousArtist
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Re: Using tracks for song arrangement info and markers 2015/05/23 09:58:36 (permalink)
Great ideas!

Btw, I didn't realize there was a "Feature Request" forum until now. I've had a shortcut to this forum 'forever' and never saw that things had changed around me,

Perhaps this thread can be relocated there?
#16
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