BluerecordingStudios
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VST3 multi MIDI port support - when?
Dear Cakewalk team, may I ask when will be one of the most important VST3 feature of multi MIDI inputs implemented in Sonar? I really cant wait for it, thank you 
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BluerecordingStudios
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Re: VST3 multi MIDI port support - when?
2014/03/07 10:45:36
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bump.... I think Sonar is the only soft that support VST3 without this feature....
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: VST3 multi MIDI port support - when?
2014/03/07 19:36:32
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This feature will not be in X3 but it is on the list of planned features.
AFIK the only VST3 host that supports this currently is Cubase, and its hardly the most important VST3 feature considering that there is pretty much only one VST3 instrument that supports it - VSL :)
Do you know of other instruments that support multiple VSTi MIDI inputs?
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BluerecordingStudios
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Re: VST3 multi MIDI port support - when?
2014/03/08 01:14:00
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Thank s for reply. Here are some: Nuendo, Logic, Pro tools, Presonus Studio One. I dont research other VST3 instruments, VSL is what I need to use with Sonar.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: VST3 multi MIDI port support - when?
2014/03/08 07:28:32
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Logic and Pro tools do not support VST3. Cubase, Nuendo and S1 are the only other VST3 hosts AFIK.
As I said it is planned but not for X3.
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BluerecordingStudios
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Re: VST3 multi MIDI port support - when?
2014/03/08 10:24:18
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Logic and Pro tools do not support VST3.
...but support requested feature Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Cubase, Nuendo and S1 are the only other VST3 hosts AFIK.
... "only" (but all that deserve mention in DAW world) but they are your main competitors.
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Blogman
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Re: VST3 multi MIDI port support - when?
2014/03/08 12:55:49
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I too was dissappointed to find this feature of VST3 not working in X3. Vienna Software is an essential part of my everyday workflow.
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wst3
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Re: VST3 multi MIDI port support - when?
2014/03/08 14:25:12
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veering slightly off topic (aren't you glad you popped your head up Noel?)...
so VSL uses the 'real' multi-port feature as specified in VST3. Do you know what Kontakt is doing with their 'extra' three sets of MIDI ports? Is there perhaps some way to provide access to them?
Thanks!
-- Bill Audio Enterprise KB3KJF
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BluerecordingStudios
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Re: VST3 multi MIDI port support - when?
2014/03/08 16:15:00
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Multi MIDI port isnt minor feature and IMHO it is one of the most important feature of VST3. Vienna Ensemble is used by professionals all over the world and if Sonar would like to be there, CW should react accordingly. If I search CW forum I can find numerous request of this feature even several years ago. Where is the problem, it is that hard to implement this in next X3 update?
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Splat 
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Re: VST3 multi MIDI port support - when?
2014/03/10 11:27:13
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Glad to hear its probably gonna be in X4. Definitely would like it, prepared to wait for it and buy it. I don't expect it for free. There are more pressing issues right now to deal with like bugs. I don't expect any new features in Sonar x3 unless it fixes buggy behaviour (e.g. drum maps and solo buttons which has been deemed a feature request for some reason even though the behaviour is buggy). BTW there are bugs from several years ago that still need fixing, check my bug thread. X3E coming soon.
post edited by CakeAlexS - 2014/03/10 11:37:44
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: VST3 multi MIDI port support - when?
2014/03/10 13:47:22
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wst3
so VSL uses the 'real' multi-port feature as specified in VST3. Do you know what Kontakt is doing with their 'extra' three sets of MIDI ports? Is there perhaps some way to provide access to them?
From what I can see the A/B/C/D ports of Kontakt are only accessible by using the standalone version of Kontakt. There is no multi input port support in VST2 and Kontakt doesn't support VST3 yet.
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Splat
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Re: VST3 multi MIDI port support - when?
2014/03/10 21:19:40
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Thanks for clearing that up Noel.
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wst3
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Re: VST3 multi MIDI port support - when?
2014/03/10 21:52:45
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
From what I can see the A/B/C/D ports of Kontakt are only accessible by using the standalone version of Kontakt.
There is no multi input port support in VST2 and Kontakt doesn't support VST3 yet.
Of course you are right... sorry for the false alarm!
-- Bill Audio Enterprise KB3KJF
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Nitrox32
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Re: VST3 multi MIDI port support - when?
2014/03/10 22:32:15
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I am glad someone posted this. I just updated my VSL software to VEP 5 that supports multi midi input. It was a feature that I was really looking to forward to using in X2. Only afterwards did I realize X2 doesn't support VST3. I wasn't planning on upgrading to X3 as there wasn't anything useful for me in the upgrade except VST3 support. When I realized I needed it, I downloaded the demo only to find that it still doesn't work. Thanks for clearing this up. I was about two minutes away from spending money on an upgrade that would have been useless to me. I do believe that multi midi input is an important feature of VST3 that is currently missing in Sonar.
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BluerecordingStudios
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Re: VST3 multi MIDI port support - when?
2014/03/11 02:29:19
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Nitrox32
I am glad someone posted this. I just updated my VSL software to VEP 5 that supports multi midi input. It was a feature that I was really looking to forward to using in X2. Only afterwards did I realize X2 doesn't support VST3. I wasn't planning on upgrading to X3 as there wasn't anything useful for me in the upgrade except VST3 support. When I realized I needed it, I downloaded the demo only to find that it still doesn't work. Thanks for clearing this up. I was about two minutes away from spending money on an upgrade that would have been useless to me. I do believe that multi midi input is an important feature of VST3 that is currently missing in Sonar.
This is what happened to me and I push the buy button. I dont even think about situation that CW doesnt implement this VST3 feature. I really dont see more important feature of VST3 than this. Almost all {including sidechain} can be done in VST2.5. But what is worse, I am going to pay again to CW for this feature, because they are not going to include it in X3. I see this situation as not new feature request, but as bug fix. It is similar to buying DAW software without record function.
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Splat
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Re: VST3 multi MIDI port support - when?
2014/03/11 03:21:57
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'It is similar to buying DAW software without record function.'
No it really is not at all similar. Record is essential, this is a 'nice to have'.
So your NI use case has been put to bed (you need to lobby NI for VST 3). So what VST3 plugins are you using right now that needs this? What exactly are you trying to achieve right now?
To be honest I'm not seeing this feature request every day in these forums. Yes if you want it you are going to pay for an upgrade. Just like everything.
Now you may have a point that perhaps cake need to specify better that it is not fully VST3 compatible. I'm not sure if they do this or not. Over to Noel.
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BluerecordingStudios
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Re: VST3 multi MIDI port support - when?
2014/03/11 09:16:56
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CakeAlexS
So your NI use case has been put to bed (you need to lobby NI for VST 3). So what VST3 plugins are you using right now that needs this? What exactly are you trying to achieve right now?
You should read whole thread, I am not talking about Kontakt I dont using it. I am talking about Vienna Ensemble software. And what I am going to achieve? Better computer performance of VSL resource hungry machinery by opening whole orchestra in one instance of VE. If you search CW forum you can find request of this functions several times over past years...
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Splat
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Re: VST3 multi MIDI port support - when?
2014/03/11 09:57:35
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When it's case of priorities it will be either be a choice of getting new features for free or getting stuff like this fixed. You will see many of these issues posted several times over as well in the forums, Cake I think have enough on their plate right now, would you say your issue is priority over all of this? You may wish to consider opting for a DAW which is more tailored to your requirements. Right now I think Cake has given you a direct answer, you will probably get what you want on the next full release. Good luck with your choice or sticking with what you have (sorry it isn't the answer you want).
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bryn
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Re: VST3 multi MIDI port support - when?
2014/03/11 15:55:47
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Bug fixes aside, I think it would suffice to say that Cakewalk (or any other) should implement the features of a standard included within a build in full or not at all. Not a partial inclusion of features of the standard only to be figured out by the end-user at a later time.
Bryn X3e Producer, Win8.1 x64, i7-2600 3.4gHz, 8gb ddr3 Ram, Motu 896, Sapphire HD 7870 2GB, Roland A800-Pro
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Blogman
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Re: VST3 multi MIDI port support - when?
2014/03/11 15:57:17
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BluerecordingStudios
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Re: VST3 multi MIDI port support - when?
2014/03/11 16:49:32
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All other major DAW developers included this VST3 feature. I think CW wants to have option to sell this VST3 platform twice. But they are not going to see my money on their account anymore. My opinion is that this is standard function of VST3 that should have been implemented, it is not something we must pay for extra. BTW nobody mentioned more important VST3 function yet...
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jscomposer
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Re: VST3 multi MIDI port support - when?
2014/03/11 18:03:01
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BluerecordingStudios
Multi MIDI port isnt minor feature and IMHO it is one of the most important feature of VST3. Vienna Ensemble is used by professionals all over the world and if Sonar would like to be there, CW should react accordingly. If I search CW forum I can find numerous request of this feature even several years ago. Where is the problem, it is that hard to implement this in next X3 update?
+1. This is one of major reasons I can't work with Sonar anymore for serious film score work. VST3 support with VEPro and Cubase 7 is a Godsend. There's no way I could ever go back to working with such limited inputs...even Logic X is a PITA to work with in this regard (possibly worse than PT!!). I get the feeling Cakewalk isn't interested in the pro film composer community :( Let's face it, most pro film composers use VEPro...it's a staple, especially for running large orchestral templates. In addtion, the VST3 expression mapping is genius!
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Splat
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Re: VST3 multi MIDI port support - when?
2014/03/11 18:13:11
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Well it's still gonna probably happen in X4 which is good news. Oh and BTW: "SONAR X3 delivers what other DAWs cannot offer, unlimited everything in all versions! You get unlimited simultaneous Audio & MIDI tracks, FX, Sends, and full VST3 support with our industry leading 64-bit mix engine. We believe that everyone deserves the full SONAR X3 experience." https://www.cakewalk.com/products/sonar/whats-new.aspx So there is your ammo... Cake Marketing department will probably now run for cover... I still don't need it (and I suspect most don't just yet), but please don't ever tell me that I'm not impartial ;)
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: VST3 multi MIDI port support - when?
2014/03/11 18:26:56
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It looks like we're going round in circles here. Please read this blog post to understand what VST3 is about. This information was posted about the same time that X3 was released. http://blog.cakewalk.com/developer-notes-sonar-x3-vst-enhancements/ VST3 is a loose collection of interfaces that may or may not be implemented by either a DAW or a host. Even steinberg doesn't implement every aspect of the VST3 spec. For X3 we chose to implement a manageable subset of features that are supported by the vast majority of plugins. We decided to defer implementing this specific feature for a simple reason. It is supported by exactly one plugin and we didn't have the resources to do so for X3. We have finite resources and we have to pick the features we implement wisely. I have stated several times that we intend to implement this and we'll do so when resources permit.
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Splat
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Re: VST3 multi MIDI port support - when?
2014/03/11 18:35:22
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.. which is fair enough and like I say, I would prefer to see the feature in X4 myself so most of your resources are concentrating on bug slashing, not keen on new features introduced in service releases myself unless it's the only way to squash a bug or a major usability problem. However the marketing blurb I quote above is factually incorrect and will need correcting I suspect, I'm not sure if there are similar quotes elsewhere.
Or are saying this isn't a VST 3 feature?
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: VST3 multi MIDI port support - when?
2014/03/11 19:11:45
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There is nothing factually incorrect with that quote. I'll say this again.
VST3 is a collection of interfaces that define a protocol for plugins and a host to communicate - that's it. VST3 itself doesn't contain any "features". It is up to the host and the plugin vendors to support any subset of features that the specification allows. This is exactly the same as VST2 or DX or any other standard. You can also build upon and extend the specification by adding extensions like we did with the Prochannel.
VST expression, multi port support, sidechaining, surround, plugin subcategories, parameter categorization, etc are all optional items. For X3 we chose to support the subset of items that were supported by the widest number of plugins.
As an analogy SONAR or any sequencer for that matter does not implement every facet of the MIDI specification which was invented over 30 years ago.
This thread has been answered multiple times. Its time to move on.
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Splat
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Re: VST3 multi MIDI port support - when?
2014/03/11 19:24:39
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I understand, I think the confusion really is what does "full" mean in relation "VST 3 Support" from the end user perspective in a marketing blurb rather than what may be the technical reality. There is definitely an argument it could be misleading to the end user. Generally people think "full" means absolutely everything. Maybe it would be best to avoid this confusion?
I totally understand and sympathise with the explanation given however, the MIDI comparison is compelling. I still would prefer to see it in X4 rather than rush released in a service pack, and you have confirmed this to be so (more or less) which is good news for X4 (or X5 users maybe, although I would deem that extremely unlikely (pure speculation)).
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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jscomposer
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Re: VST3 multi MIDI port support - when?
2014/03/11 23:08:58
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Exactly. Cakewalk should know better than to advertise false features.
The OP's initial question relates to a feature that is most likely to be used by Sonar users.
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Blogman
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Re: VST3 multi MIDI port support - when?
2014/03/12 00:03:13
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'VST3 support is now fully integrated across all versions of SONAR X3. That means superior plugin management, low CPU loads, and improved visual workspace. It’s perfectly integrated into SONAR X3’s browser and shows you VST3 and VST2 plugins side by side.'
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Andrew Rossa
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Re: VST3 multi MIDI port support - when?
2014/03/12 10:25:59
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We explained the implementation pretty thoroughly when we launched. As Noel mentioned, we are one of a handful of DAWs that support VST3. We've received a lot of positive feedback and it wasn't an easy feature to implement. Of course there will be future developments to many features we develop and implement.
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