Helpful ReplyValhallaPlate | valhalladsp.com

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Vastman
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Re: ValhallaPlate | valhalladsp.com 2015/11/11 23:16:23 (permalink)
Lovely... I've always gravitated to plates for my voice... Rematrix isn't doing it for me, Spaces is what I generally use but Sean, u've got me hooked... Thanks!  
post edited by Vastman - 2015/11/11 23:27:08

Dana
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#31
dcumpian
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Re: ValhallaPlate | valhalladsp.com 2015/11/12 08:19:54 (permalink)
Welcome Sean! It's always great when a vendor jumps in with more information on a product. As I have Shimmer and Room, and love them, I will certainly add this at some point.
 
Regards,
Dan
 

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#32
BassDaddy
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Re: ValhallaPlate | valhalladsp.com 2015/11/12 09:14:06 (permalink)
Always love it when a developer shows up. Thank you for that. And thank you for the post!  

It's Bass, not Bass.
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#33
bitflipper
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Re: ValhallaPlate | valhalladsp.com 2015/11/12 09:20:08 (permalink)
Thank you so much for your comments, Sean.
 
I am used to trying to figure out how things work through black-box analysis, rarely getting any help from the developers who actually know how they work. Your transparency - through blog and forum posts - should be an inspiration to others, many of whom would rather propagate mojo-myths than explain how something works.
 
Phase-coherency is one aspect I've never dwelt upon, because I figured it was way too complex to understand.
 
Obviously, in acoustical reverberation phase is all over the place as each reflection is delayed by different amounts. It stands to reason that this would be a huge factor in determining how the reverb wash sounds. But gosh, how does one go about analyzing it? You'd need a supercomputer to ray-trace every possible path, calculate their phase shifts, and sum them moment-by-moment. (Although analyzing a plate has got to be far, far simpler than a cathedral.)
 
And now you tell me that the speed of sound varies with frequency in a plate. This is a mind-blowing revelation. Why is that the case in steel but not in air? In all my reading on acoustics, I have never come across any reference suggesting that the SoS is not constant in homogeneous materials. You see plenty of tables that say "here's the speed in water, copper, steel" but none have a footnote saying "this is at one kilohertz only".
 
Not that I doubt it - you've ascertained it by measurement. I now see that I should be testing using different frequencies of sine waves rather than the single square wave impulse (1000 Hz) that I used.
 
Thanks again, Sean, for the information, for another great product, and (best of all for us po' folk) keeping the price down to a week's worth of peanut-butter-and-jelly sandwiches.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#34
yorolpal
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Re: ValhallaPlate | valhalladsp.com 2015/11/12 10:07:13 (permalink)
Welp...at first I didn't think I owned any of Sean's stuff...which, technically I guess, I don't.  But then I saw where he was the designer of EOS which I love about nearly to death.  If you had to pick just one of his plugs to have and to hold and to cherish from this day forward...which would it be?
 

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#35
cclarry
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Re: ValhallaPlate | valhalladsp.com 2015/11/12 10:18:06 (permalink)
I'd say the most universal is Valhalla Room...


#36
bitflipper
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Re: ValhallaPlate | valhalladsp.com 2015/11/12 14:58:55 (permalink)
I agree: ValhallaRoom. It's suitable for any everyday application, plus it can do weird stuff if you want. 


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#37
sharke
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Re: ValhallaPlate | valhalladsp.com 2015/11/12 16:19:51 (permalink)
The small rooms and ambiences in Valhalla Room are a must....
post edited by sharke - 2015/11/12 16:30:23

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#38
clintmartin
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Re: ValhallaPlate | valhalladsp.com 2015/11/12 18:28:16 (permalink)
I vote for Vintageverb.

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#39
michaelhanson
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Re: ValhallaPlate | valhalladsp.com 2015/11/12 18:32:20 (permalink)
clintmartin
I vote for Vintageverb.


That would be my vote as well.

Mike

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#40
Jimbo21
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Re: ValhallaPlate | valhalladsp.com 2015/11/12 18:49:07 (permalink)
I demoed VVV and liked it, but to me, it wasn't different enough from Room to buy it too. Both are excellent.

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#41
clintmartin
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Re: ValhallaPlate | valhalladsp.com 2015/11/12 20:14:50 (permalink)
Jimbo21
I demoed VVV and liked it, but to me, it wasn't different enough from Room to buy it too. Both are excellent.


Agreed. Both are excellent, and don't forget ubermod. It's one of my favorite plugins. I'm resisting Valhallaplate for now. I know the price won't change (like others) and I want to see what goes on sale in a couple of weeks. I can't believe ol'pal doesn't have any of these...I thought he had everything.

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#42
Jimbo21
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Re: ValhallaPlate | valhalladsp.com 2015/11/12 20:59:06 (permalink)
I thought Bapu had everything, with ol'pal  maybe a close second.
 
I love Ubermod too!

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#43
clintmartin
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Re: ValhallaPlate | valhalladsp.com 2015/11/12 21:22:05 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby cclarry 2015/11/12 21:52:13
Bapu does have everything, and probably several cats. He's a freak.

Cakewalk, Harrison Mixbus 4, Waveform 9, ADK intel i7 2600 3.40 ghz, 8gb Ram, Win 7, Presonus Audiobox 44VSL. 
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#44
yorolpal
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Re: ValhallaPlate | valhalladsp.com 2015/11/12 21:59:29 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Jimbo21 2015/11/12 22:21:22
Everything is, at best, an ephemeral concept. Even "most things" is highly problematic. As I have alluded before, due to my specific circumstances, I am occasionally urged by my tax consultant to "buy more stuff". Not to get too bean-counter-accountant-jargon on you. This, happenstantially, includes software. Who knew?? In any case due to that and a severe case of GAS I do own more than my share of "redundant tools", to put a positive spin on my admittedly "hoarder-like" situation. That this has caused me to be at once both a laughing stock and an oddity on these forums is a burden I must bear every single day. Especially those days when there are no deeply discounted offers or one day "no-brainer" sales made known to us by CCLarry. Those are dark days indeed. I quite often assuage myself with a three piece dinner of Popeyes Famous Fried Chicken on those bleak 24 hours. Waiting, sometimes in vain, for the next "deal" to pop up on the forum and once more...if even temporarily...fill the void that is inside me. The hunger. The unfathomable need to acquire VST plugins and instrument libraries...regardless of their value or worth. Perhaps one day science will find a cure for this malady. And no one will have to suffer anymore the way I have in the past. It may be too late for me...that is self evident. But if my timely warning can dissuade even one of you from falling prey to this inscrutable malady then I will consider my time here well spent and worthwhile. Please take heed my fellow forumites. Please...I beg you.




That said...I reckon I'll have to give Valhalla Room a whirl:-)

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#45
Jimbo21
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Re: ValhallaPlate | valhalladsp.com 2015/11/12 22:15:24 (permalink)
I may need the name of your "tax consultant" dude, though I doubt my wife would buy it.

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#46
Vastman
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Re: ValhallaPlate | valhalladsp.com 2015/11/13 16:35:39 (permalink)
UberMod is my favorite...

Dana
We make the future... Climate Change Music
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#47
michaelhanson
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Re: ValhallaPlate | valhalladsp.com 2015/11/13 17:27:21 (permalink)
Plate.......NICE!  It's now on the Lead Vocal of my next mix. 

Mike

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#48
stevec
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Re: ValhallaPlate | valhalladsp.com 2015/11/13 17:48:16 (permalink)
AHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Y'all made me do it.   Thanks. 
 


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#49
BassDaddy
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Re: ValhallaPlate | valhalladsp.com 2015/11/13 18:10:48 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby cclarry 2015/11/13 19:04:37
Did anybody bite on Yorolpal's "I own everything feel sorry for me" deal? If I could right now, I would order Valhalla Plate while eating Popeye's chicken. 

It's Bass, not Bass.
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#50
yorolpal
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Re: ValhallaPlate | valhalladsp.com 2015/11/13 23:45:17 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby BassDaddy 2015/11/14 09:06:20
Wail...you wouldn't regret it. Though you might need a Tums later that afternoon.

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#51
Fleer
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Re: ValhallaPlate | valhalladsp.com 2015/11/14 00:28:00 (permalink)
BassDaddy
Did anybody bite on Yorolpal's "I own everything feel sorry for me" deal? If I could right now, I would order Valhalla Plate while eating Popeye's chicken. 

Bonafide!

"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
#52
BassDaddy
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Re: ValhallaPlate | valhalladsp.com 2015/11/14 09:01:01 (permalink)
yorolpal
Wail...you wouldn't regret it. Though you might need a Tums later that afternoon.

Hey Larry, what are Tums going for at JRR Shop?

It's Bass, not Bass.
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#53
cclarry
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Re: ValhallaPlate | valhalladsp.com 2015/11/14 09:04:30 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby BassDaddy 2015/11/16 09:08:55
They're on special for $3.99 with an additional 16% off with code GAS



#54
bitflipper
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Re: ValhallaPlate | valhalladsp.com 2015/11/14 10:55:37 (permalink)
If you want to learn more about what makes plate reverbs different from other approaches, Sean has put together a nice summary here.
 
For those wondering if they need VPlate when they've already got other algorithmic reverbs with "Plate" presets (e.g. ValhallaVintageVerb), check out Sean's posts on Gearslutz. In it, he observes that few digital reverbs actually attempt to emulate plate characteristics with any accuracy. 
 
In other words, they are from the school of "hey, this is bright, kinda metallic, and has a fast attack. Let's call it a plate!"

 
This also explains why I've never like "Plate" reverb presets in the past, even though I like the sound of a real EMT and consider it to be the reference standard for all algorithmic reverbs due to its long-time ubiquity. 
 
 
 


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#55
sharke
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Re: ValhallaPlate | valhalladsp.com 2015/11/14 11:26:03 (permalink)
I always felt the same about plates on other reverbs too - lots of times I thought "this is the kind of thing that needs a plate" yet when I tried the plate presets in other plugins I would be kinda disappointed, they were OK but just didn't sound like the plates I'd heard on classic records. Especially on snares and vocals. But ValhallaPlate is totally different. 

James
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stevec
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Re: ValhallaPlate | valhalladsp.com 2015/11/14 12:58:25 (permalink)
Ditto...    I just used it last night for the first time, replacing Rematrix Solo on a vocal send.   I chose one of the copper plate presets and after a little tweaking the result was..... smooth.   The classic "can't distinctly hear it but boy I miss it when it's gone" effect.
 

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#57
Mosvalve
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Re: ValhallaPlate | valhalladsp.com 2015/11/14 23:52:09 (permalink)
Bought it. Very nice indeed. Well worth the money.

BobV 
 
 
 
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valhalladsp
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Re: ValhallaPlate | valhalladsp.com 2015/11/15 17:25:20 (permalink)
bitflipper
Obviously, in acoustical reverberation phase is all over the place as each reflection is delayed by different amounts. It stands to reason that this would be a huge factor in determining how the reverb wash sounds. But gosh, how does one go about analyzing it? You'd need a supercomputer to ray-trace every possible path, calculate their phase shifts, and sum them moment-by-moment. (Although analyzing a plate has got to be far, far simpler than a cathedral.)

 
Measuring phase is difficult, at least as far as specific phase relationships in a reverb after the first 50 msec or so. I listen for diffusion by ear. If the initial part of the reverb sounds dry (at 100% wet), I presume that it is fairly phase coherent. If it sounds wet, it is diffuse. If it sounds strongly colored, there are probably just a few short early reflections in there.
 

And now you tell me that the speed of sound varies with frequency in a plate. This is a mind-blowing revelation. Why is that the case in steel but not in air? In all my reading on acoustics, I have never come across any reference suggesting that the SoS is not constant in homogeneous materials. You see plenty of tables that say "here's the speed in water, copper, steel" but none have a footnote saying "this is at one kilohertz only".

 
Jonathan Abel explains it way better than me, in the UA WebZine post from June 2005 that apparently won't show up as a link for me. 
 
 
The speed of sound in air is consistent for all frequencies. The dispersion in plates is due to the specifics of the bending mode. I don't claim to understand it from a physical standpoint - but I can hear it, I've read about it, and I know how to model it. 
 

Thanks again, Sean, for the information, for another great product, and (best of all for us po' folk) keeping the price down to a week's worth of peanut-butter-and-jelly sandwiches.



Thanks for buying the plugin! And thanks to y'all here in the forum for your kind words!
 
Sean Costello
post edited by valhalladsp - 2015/11/15 17:38:23
#59
BassDaddy
Max Output Level: -33 dBFS
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Re: ValhallaPlate | valhalladsp.com 2015/11/16 09:03:57 (permalink)
I'm sold. It's up to Santa now. Now I know why plates have sounded like better behaved spring reverbs.

It's Bass, not Bass.
i7 2700K, 16GB DDR3, 2 SSD sample drives and OS drive, HDD SATAIII for projects, 2 24" monitors
Focusrite Saffire Pro 24, Focusrite VRM Box, LAVA Lamp, SONAR Platinum 64 bit, Mackie MCU and 1 MCU XT, Akai Advance 49, Windows 10,
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#60
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