koikane


I don't see why this is such a shock. CLick on my link here for a 850 track session, with over 600 instances of Waves C4. Blow your mind. www.blowthetracks.com
 

jackn2mpu


eratu:
Good post. The project in question is truly more than the sum of it's parts.
As to delay compensation in PT8le - ata Mellowmuse takes care of that. $29 US at last check. So it's a plugin? Big deal - we all spend way more than that on plugs. Limited number of tracks - 128 tracks may be limited but it's okay for a LOT of users.

eratu

BUT it IS *somewhat* impressive that he's doing this at 96 sample latency and it's running very smoothly. Not all DAWs can do that. But still, other DAWs can do that... we all know this.

BUT that's not all.... it IS *more* impressive that he's doing this with a USB interface. Ummm, I'd consider that a win for USB.

BUT that's not all... it IS *very* impressive that he's doing this in x64, running a combination of x64 plugins and x86 (32-bit) plugins via a BitBridge that ACTUALLY WORKS at that latency, with plugins loaded well beyond the typical 3GB (LAA) that most people can achieve in x86... and it's all working at 96 sample latency with what, 50% or less CPU usage? Come on, he's able to play a VSTi live on top of it, at 96 sample latency over USB! Need I say more?

Hello, that is Mr. Impressive knocking on your door.

The only thing I'm shocked at is that people don't pay attention to the details to see what's actually going on. No, this is not a mind-blowing presentation, no it is not SHOCKING.... but it is at the very least *IMPRESSIVE*.

No other DAW can actually pull off that combination running in x64 right now, so Brandon has just demonstrated a real-world, working 64-bit solution that works smoothly at 96 sample latency on USB using more than 4GB of RAM! What's not impressive about that? The rig could probably handle almost 2 times that at that latency, and just imagine what it could do at a typical mixing latency of 256 samples! Or, better yet, with a killer ultra-low latency interface champ from Lynx or RME? The possibilities become impressive indeed.

eratu


Who said it was a shocking? LOL! The most people have conveyed is that it is impressive. *IMPRESSIVE* indeed... To those who don't think this 140-track demo was impressive:

First, I'm starting to wonder if you guys pay attention to details. :)

Of course 140 tracks by themselves are not impressive. I have projects that regularly go over that and I'm sure you do too.

Of course it's not impressive that there are about 50 plugins, including many VSTi (about two dozen live).

Of course it's not impressive that Brandon is playing a video clip along with that. Well, duh! That's DAW 101.

BUT it IS *somewhat* impressive that he's doing this at 96 sample latency and it's running very smoothly. Not all DAWs can do that. But still, other DAWs can do that... we all know this.

BUT that's not all.... it IS *more* impressive that he's doing this with a USB interface. Ummm, I'd consider that a win for USB.

BUT that's not all... it IS *very* impressive that he's doing this in x64, running a combination of x64 plugins and x86 (32-bit) plugins via a BitBridge that ACTUALLY WORKS at that latency, with plugins loaded well beyond the typical 3GB (LAA) that most people can achieve in x86... and it's all working at 96 sample latency with what, 50% or less CPU usage? Come on, he's able to play a VSTi live on top of it, at 96 sample latency over USB! Need I say more?

Hello, that is Mr. Impressive knocking on your door.

The only thing I'm shocked at is that people don't pay attention to the details to see what's actually going on. No, this is not a mind-blowing presentation, no it is not SHOCKING.... but it is at the very least *IMPRESSIVE*.

No other DAW can actually pull off that combination running in x64 right now, so Brandon has just demonstrated a real-world, working 64-bit solution that works smoothly at 96 sample latency on USB using more than 4GB of RAM! What's not impressive about that? The rig could probably handle almost 2 times that at that latency, and just imagine what it could do at a typical mixing latency of 256 samples! Or, better yet, with a killer ultra-low latency interface champ from Lynx or RME? The possibilities become impressive indeed.

Cubase: I use Cubase, and it has an x64 version, but their VST Bridge can't do much of jack. VST bridge is a horrible implementation of a bitbridge, and everyone who has used it, knows it, including Steinberg.

Live: I use and love Live, but it's not even x64 yet, so let's not bother for this example.

Reaper: I use, own (and respect) Reaper, it's a great app that is available as x64, but its bridging tool is fresh out of the oven and has a long ways to go... no doubt Justin will sort things out and the Reaper folks will be able to duplicate that type of session soon. No need to get into a battle about that, now or any other day.

ProTools 8 LE: Let's not get started there. I own and use this too, and the limitations are too obvious to list, not to mention no x64, no bitbridge, limited tracks, poor CPU usage and poor latency in general. Oh, and let's not even ask for plugin delay/latency compensation. But it does have great automation. :)

What else?  I'm not trying to slam the other DAW apps above (I own and use them, and there are lots of amazing things in them). All I am doing is trying to paint the big picture, that what Brandon was able to do in that session was indeed IMPRESSIVE. Sure, the other x64 DAWs can use JBridge, but you're missing the point -- (and JBridge doesn't cover all the bases BTW) -- there is nothing else OUT OF THE BOX that can do what Brandon just did.

EDIT: Correct grammatical/spelling error

ANOTHER EDIT: I just re-watched the video and adjusted the specs with more information

dontletmedrown

Ok, but even still-- the i7 is providing the raw horsepower.  To me, that is the breakthrough.  As far as bitbridge and the Sonar details, well Sonar is just doing what it's expected to do, right?  Should I be impressed because bitbridge actually does it's job?  (ie: doesn't fail)  Wasn't Sonar 6 supposed to do that?

dontletmedrown


Ok, but even still-- the i7 is providing the raw horsepower.  To me, that is the breakthrough.  As far as bitbridge and the Sonar details, well Sonar is just doing what it's expected to do, right?  Should I be impressed because bitbridge actually does it's job?  (ie: doesn't fail)  Wasn't Sonar 6 supposed to do that?  The USB device is just getting the 2-bus stream, so there's not really any technological feat happening there considering the i7 is involved.  Not trying to piss on the parade, but I am mostly surprised that people didn't already know this was possible. 

JavaMan


so now the bakers have taken over the peer to peer section.
 
desperation seems to be quite evident.

eratu

dontletmedrown


Ok, but even still-- the i7 is providing the raw horsepower.  To me, that is the breakthrough.  As far as bitbridge and the Sonar details, well Sonar is just doing what it's expected to do, right?  Should I be impressed because bitbridge actually does it's job?  (ie: doesn't fail)  Wasn't Sonar 6 supposed to do that?  The USB device is just getting the 2-bus stream, so there's not really any technological feat happening there considering the i7 is involved.  Not trying to piss on the parade, but I am mostly surprised that people didn't already know this was possible. 

Dave, you appear to be a man that lives in the real world and probably nothing much can faze you, either direction. I respect that you have that approach to life, sure, why not? Yes, as Jose agrees, the i7 is on showcase here too, so there are a lot of congrats to be passed around. Yay to Intel, yay to Bill Gates and yay to Cakewalk (and maybe to Roland too). ;) Fortunately for us, we get to use all this amazing technology and get things done with our creative ambitions. These are good days for DAWs... it's all coming together in x64 OSes and Cakewalk has shown a great example of what is to come.

Unfortunately there was one error in your response -- the last line (not the piss part, no problem with pissing, go ahead), in that you are surprised that people didn't already know this was possible. Actually, this was NOT possible before... there was no way even just one year ago you could have done what Brandon (plus Bill Gates plus Paul Otellini) could have done, on any DAW, including SONAR with those exact variables. You have to look at the entire set of details here, which I outlined in my longer post above. It was simply not possible. No x64 DAW existed that could have pulled it off in that combination, including Sonar at the time. The combination of BitBridge 2 (which is part of Sonar 8.5) for x64, the great drivers for the USB interface, Sonar 8.5 tweaks, the mature x64 version of Sonar, and yes, the awesome i7, made it possible. Nothing else existed just one year ago that could do that -- at any price -- and frankly, nothing else exists at this moment that can do exactly that. And it's affordable right now. That is impressive by almost any definition I know.

Now, if you're simply trying to bring things back down to earth and say, "but other things can do amazing things too," then no one is going to argue with you on that. I have several other DAW apps that do amazing things, and some of the DAW apps I love -- like Live -- and they do some things that Sonar doesn't do. Obviously. We're not morons or fanboys here (although, I guess there are a few, I can't help that). I use a lot of other DAW apps, and I hope Cakewalk keeps paying attention to what they can do. No one said Sonar 8.5 is god's gift to the DAW world -- there's plenty to keep Cakewalk working to improve it.

All we're talking about is this demo that Brandon did, which is an impressive -- even exceptional -- showcase of the merging of many different technological developments into a stable, smooth, very low-latency next-generation system, running a reasonable real-world production-level project with more than 4GB or RAM  in a 64-bit operating system. It's a GREAT demo that a lot of people can be proud of. But if you are not "impressed" by that, no problem. I respect that you have your point of view.

Best, James

dontletmedrown


Hey I just noticed Robin is no longer provoking us to "test" him.

dontletmedrown



Hey Eratu,
 
Thanks for replying in a very courteous manner.  I guess I didn't realize why this particular showcase wasn't possible.  If I understand correctly, the main reason is because some of the plugins in that session are not 64-bit compatible and will only work in the newest version of bitbridge?  I mentioned Sonar 6 cynically because that was bitbridge's debut (if I remember correctly). 

Robin Kelly [Cakewalk

It was a bug in the forum software, I could not get rid of it. Another mod (Brandon) had to go edit it, personally i was happy with the swell result.