aoresteen
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RE: Vista 64 and Sonar 8
2008/10/28 11:04:38
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To be clear, the 3 or 4 GB limit in XP 32 depends on devices that are memory mapped. XP 32 bit DOES see all 4 GB of RAM installed. It then reserves memeory for memory mapped devicces, usally your video card and swap page. In my computer I have 4 GB RAM but Windows XP reports 3 GB. My video card has 512k MB of ram that is memory mapped so XP reservers address space for the video card. Ditto for the swap file. My work PC has 4 GB RAM and XP reports 3.25 GB of RAM. The video card has 256MB RAM so I get more RAM for applications but I have a less powerfull video card. When SP 2 come out for Vista 64 I'll give it a try. For now WinXP SP3 is rock solid. My motherboard can have 16 GB RAM. Since I have 2 2GB sticks, will most likely bump it to 12 GB RAM when I make the move to Vista 64.
post edited by aoresteen - 2008/10/28 11:23:07
Tony Intel Core 2 Quad 3.0 GHz, 4 GB RAM, Win XP Pro SP3 Sonar PE 8.5 Dual Acer 22" Monitors Alesis QSR, E-MU Proteus 2000 & lots of guitars Newnan, GA 30265
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Arglebargle
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RE: Vista 64 and Sonar 8
2008/10/28 13:08:45
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ORIGINAL: Jose7822
ORIGINAL: Arglebargle
Over the weekend I took the plunge and upgraded my machine with Vista 64 along with 8 gb RAM. So far all of my major plugins work, just a couple freeware ones that don't.
And there seems to be a HUGE increase in performance compared to XP.
Nice!
Thanks for the news. I might be going Vista64 next year just because I'm going with an 8GB RAM machine and I hope to use it all. Could you be so kind as to list which plugins are working fine in this environment and which are not?
So far all of these plugs seem to work fine. Granted I haven't worked much yet but all seems well so far. z3ta Rapture Dimension Pro Sytrus Albino 3 Sylenth1 Beast QLSO Gold XP Pro Symphonic Choirs Ra Stormdrum Vapor All the stuff in Sonar The vast majority of my free plugs (too many to list) I have yet to install Battery 3 and VI.ONE. Sampletank 2.5 installs fine but freezes Sonar when it tries to scan the plugin. This is the only thing I'm pissed about as I use ST2 in pretty much every project. Have yet to properly research the problem though. Guitar Rig 3 seems to be fine, but AFAIK there are no Vista 64 drivers for Rig Kontrol yet. Absolutely baffling in my humble opinion. A pox on Native Instruments.
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Jose7822
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RE: Vista 64 and Sonar 8
2008/10/28 19:25:41
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Cool! Thanks a lot for the info man. I can't wait to get my new machine and finally be able to utilize more RAM  . About the plugin freeze, try doing a search here because I know this has been brought up several times before. Don't remember if there was a way around this though. Or, just contact Cakewalk/NI and let them know about the issue via phone or by filling up the Problem Report Form: http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/ProblemReporter/ Take care!
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vicsant
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RE: Vista 64 and Sonar 8
2008/10/28 22:23:00
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I agree. That and the Vista stuff needs to brought into the 21'st century :) ....so the info in that page is outdated and may not work? 
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Freddie H
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RE: Vista 64 and Sonar 8
2008/10/29 06:03:42
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Just my two cents.... With new computers its just waste of CPU and Memory resources using XP32? You can only utilize total 2GB (2,5GB) on applications. "3GB switch" only helps WINDOWS not to run low on memory and split the Virtual memory by 2/3 instead of 50/50. In XP32 world = before you have even start working you have take over 580mb in OS. Load your “setup†and load 1 patch of Omnisphere and you have used approximately 1,2 GB RAM already. In this example you have just approximately 800mb left. Also good to know is that in fact your have lost CPU boost in XP32 with newer CPU:s like Core2 Quad. It doesn't work so efficient in XP32 as in VISTA 64bit. So you approximately use only 40-60% of your CPU capacity on XP32 VS Windows VISTA 64bit. Memory in XP32 efficient?..... yeah right  LOL Of course VISTA 64bit takes a lot more RAM just booting the system. Many say 800Mb but it mostly 1.3 -1,5GB RAM in use just after booting VISTA 64bit. But who cares you have example over 16GB RAM for use in VISTA 64bit with physical 8GB DDR3. I don't think you should compare VISTA VS XP at all. The Windows-CORE it totally rewritten so you can say; even they both called Windows is not even related to each other. Also all softwares and hardware that work with VISTA 64bit will work natively on WINDOWS 7 if you didn't know that. Windows 7 has the same CORE structure as in VISTA CORE but made even more efficient, especially with newer CPU:s like Corei7, CORE 2 Quad and new DDR3 memory's. So to rap this up, Conclusions! Old computers with Pentium, Dual core, DDR2, DDR1 = Stay with XP32. New CPU:s like Core i7, Quad core, Xeon, DDR3 (DDR2 800/1066DDR2) Memory = VISTA 64bit Soon VISTA SP2 is here too.... http://windowsteamblog.com/blogs/windowsvista/archive/2008/10/24/windows-vista-service-pack-2-beta.aspx http://windowsteamblog.com/blogs/windowsvista/archive/2008/05/27/communicating-windows-7.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-vista/compare-editions/64-bit.aspx Regards Freddie
post edited by Freddie H - 2008/10/29 06:23:07
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nathanknight
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RE: Vista 64 and Sonar 8
2008/10/30 15:49:58
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ORIGINAL: Middleman
To the OP, I am running Sonar 8, 64 bit. I would advise you to read about Motherboards, graphics card and sound devices which are compatible. Otherwise it could be a rough transition.
I am about to build a new DAW with a Core 2 Quad based mobo/CPU and I intend to install Windows Vista 64-bit (though I will probably have a second boot up with Windows XP 32-bit while I make the transition). Will the motherboard really impact the smooth running of Vista 64-bit? If so, what mobo, graphics card, etc should I get? I see you are using the ASUS P5Q-C, but I've seen negative reviews about that board on newegg.com I also see that the video card you use has a fan on it...are there any decent dual-DVI cards that will work with 64-bit Vista that don't have a fan on them?--to keep the system quieter. I would like to find a mobo that has onboard eSATA (most new ones seem to), as I intend to use 1 or 2 external HDs for sample libraries and Sonar audio...so that I can take them with me to use with my laptop when I'm away from the studio. Is 8GB of RAM the recommended starting place when setting up a 64-bit Vista machine? When most motherboards seem to have a limit of around 16GB of RAM, how can one use 128GB of RAM in Windows 64-bit? After reading over all of these posts a couple times, my main concerns for switching to Vista64 are a) Drivers: For my Tascam FW-1082...which according to the forums over there don't seem to be working very well with systems that have more than 2GB of RAM and for my M-Audio Keystation Pro88 which doesn't have 64-bit drivers at all...and b) the 32-bit plugins I use, especially the 32-bit VSTi plugins, which are many. ORIGINAL: Psychobillybob
Load 32 Sonar in 64 Vista, use yer plugs.
ORIGINAL: Elle
in this case Sonar will be limited to 4GB only. However, you'll still be able to use other 4GB of your 8GB-RAM for other applications at the same time. OK, so by running 32-bit Sonar in 64-bit Vista, Sonar will be limited to 4GB...and the other 4GB can/will be used by other applications. How about VSTis running *within* Sonar, big ones like Omnisphere...will those be using the 4GB being used by Sonar, or can they use the other 4GB? ORIGINAL: Elle
And another note that works for me: Sonar x64 runs way smoother in terms of CPU multi-processing usage than Sonar x32. So I normally start x64 for the new projects and only if there's something wrong then switching to Sonar x32.
This may be a sill question, but if you are using Windows 64-bit but running Sonar 32-bit, does your hardware (audio/MIDI interface) need 64-bit drivers, or will they work with 32-bit drivers? ORIGINAL: Elle
Keep in mind (and you may already know this) that you need 64 bit drivers for all your hardware (Audio/MIDI interface, PCI/PCIe cards, printer, etc) or else they won't work in Vista 64. Another thing to note is that DX/DXi plugs don't work in 64 bit Sonar, BUT they do work in 32 bit Sonar (even when installed in a 64 bit OS).
I guess that answers my question about 64-bit drivers. But, are there any plans for allowing DX/DXi plugins to work in 64-bit Sonar? Thank you very much in advance, Nathan
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Jose7822
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RE: Vista 64 and Sonar 8
2008/10/30 17:14:16
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Hey Nathan,
I'll answer some of your questions.
The only reason, really, to run a 64 bit OS is to utilize more RAM due to the memory limitations of a 32 bit OS. As you know, Vista can recognize up to 128GB of RAM (excluding Home Basic and Home Premium which only support 8GB and 16GB repectively), but this doesn't mean that current motherboards support this right now. They just made the OS future proof by overshooting on how much memory it could recognize but, eventually, hardware will get to that point at which time we will move to a 128 bit OS that supports more memory capabilities, etc, etc. As far as drivers, they need to be 64 bit because it's the only way the OS (assuming it's a 64 bit OS) will recognize them, not because of the applications installed, makes sense?
Also, the plugins running inside of Sonar 32bit are all part of the Sonar process so they are bound by the 4GB limit of 32 bit applications (even in a 64 bit OS). The only way to exceed this 4GB limit is to run everything at 64 bit and use Bitbridge for your 32 bit plugs (which, by the way, is a separate process from Sonar so it can utilize up to 4GB itself).
Regarding DX/DXi, they ARE supported in Sonar 64, but only if they're 64 bit as well. This means that 32 bit DX/DXi are not supported in Sonar 64, which is what I was refering to in my previous post. Sadly, there are not many 64 bit plugins out there so this is why it's taken so long for people to move into the 64 bit world. It seems that this is changing though since more 64 bit computers are being sold now. Anyways, if you do have 32 bit DX/DXi plugs, the alternative would be to install both the 32 bit and 64 bit versions of Sonar in a 64 bit OS. This will allow you to take advantage of the large memory address of a 64 OS with Sonar 64 as well as using your 32 bit plugs that don't run in 64 bit Sonar by opening them up in Sonar 32 bit. Both versions of Sonar can co-exist with no problems at all by the way.
HTH
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Middleman
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RE: Vista 64 and Sonar 8
2008/10/31 00:58:58
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ORIGINAL: nathanknight
I am about to build a new DAW with a Core 2 Quad based mobo/CPU and I intend to install Windows Vista 64-bit (though I will probably have a second boot up with Windows XP 32-bit while I make the transition). Will the motherboard really impact the smooth running of Vista 64-bit? If so, what mobo, graphics card, etc should I get? I see you are using the ASUS P5Q-C, but I've seen negative reviews about that board on newegg.com I also see that the video card you use has a fan on it...are there any decent dual-DVI cards that will work with 64-bit Vista that don't have a fan on them?--to keep the system quieter. First, this MB is rock solid in Vista 64 and Sonar 64. I have not had one issue not did I have any of the problems outlined at NewEgg.com. If you read through the bad reviews a couple were upset because they could not mix DDR2 and DDR3 memory. Duh. There were more positive reviews than negative by the way. But your call. I am very pleased with this MB. (I've also seen negative reviews of Sonar ;) My graphics card is virtually noiseless but yes it has a fan. It's a low profile fan with heatsink and spins a very low rpm.
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nathanknight
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RE: Vista 64 and Sonar 8
2008/10/31 13:43:03
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ORIGINAL: Jose7822
As far as drivers, they need to be 64 bit because it's the only way the OS (assuming it's a 64 bit OS) will recognize them, not because of the applications installed, makes sense?
Yes, thank you. You need 64-bit drivers even if running Sonar in 32-bit while in a 64-bit OS. ORIGINAL: Jose7822
Also, the plugins running inside of Sonar 32bit are all part of the Sonar process so they are bound by the 4GB limit of 32 bit applications (even in a 64 bit OS). The only way to exceed this 4GB limit is to run everything at 64 bit and use Bitbridge for your 32 bit plugs (which, by the way, is a separate process from Sonar so it can utilize up to 4GB itself).
Got it. Are you saying that using Bitbridge for 32-bit plugs will normally utilize 4GB itself? What is a recommended amount of RAM to use for someone going into 64-bit Vista for the first time? 8GB? ORIGINAL: Jose7822
First, this MB (ASUS P5Q-C) is rock solid in Vista 64 and Sonar 64.
I take it that there are motherboards that are *not* solid in Vista 64? Intel has been highly recommended by many. Gigabyte is another board that somebody has been trying to sell me on. ORIGINAL: Jose7822
I have not had one issue not did I have any of the problems outlined at NewEgg.com.
Good to hear. ORIGINAL: Jose7822
My graphics card is virtually noiseless but yes it has a fan. It's a low profile fan with heatsink and spins a very low rpm.
Do you know of decent dual DVI cards that don't have a fan? Kind Regards
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Jose7822
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RE: Vista 64 and Sonar 8
2008/10/31 13:55:21
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ORIGINAL: nathanknight
Got it. Are you saying that using Bitbridge for 32-bit plugs will normally utilize 4GB itself? Yes, this is outside of what RAM Sonar 64 may use. ORIGINAL: nathanknight
What is a recommended amount of RAM to use for someone going into 64-bit Vista for the first time? 8GB? A minimum of 6GB, but 8GB is recommended if you use heavy samplers. HTH P.S. You have mismatched some quotes on your previous posts .
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nathanknight
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RE: Vista 64 and Sonar 8
2008/10/31 14:00:00
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Sorry about that...I'll go slower next time!
Good to hear though, that the Bitbridge uses System RAM and not the 4GB that Sonar uses.
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Middleman
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RE: Vista 64 and Sonar 8
2008/10/31 14:15:41
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I take it that there are motherboards that are *not* solid in Vista 64? Yes. My Lynx soundcard always crackled a bit with Media Player in 64 bit. I chocked it up to Vista refinements but that MB just handled audio/graphics sharing bad. The P5QC has absolutely no issues and latency in Sonar has gone down to .7ms for small projects and at most 5.8ms for 24+tracks heavily loaded with a variety of plugins. Not a glitch from the audio. Do you know of decent dual DVI cards that don't have a fan? No, sorry.
post edited by Middleman - 2008/10/31 14:19:40
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Jose7822
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RE: Vista 64 and Sonar 8
2008/10/31 14:18:55
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Keep in mind though that Sonar 64 will use RAM for 64 bit plugins only. So if you use mostly 32 bit plugins, you'll be limited by the 4GB Bitbridge can use. On the other hand, if you use mostly Sonar's 64 bit plugs (i.e. Sonitus Suite, Dimension Pro, Rapture, Z3ta+, the new Tube leveler and Transient Shaper, the 64 Multiband Compressor and 64 Linear EQ) plus whatever 3rd party 64 bit plugs currently on the market (like Izotope plugs, VSL and PLAY) then you should be good to go. Otherwise, you won't be taking advantage of much RAM.
Take care!
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nathanknight
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RE: Vista 64 and Sonar 8
2008/10/31 14:23:09
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What a shame that Spectrasonics VIs (Stylus RMX & Omnisphere) are not 64-bit plugs! These 2 VSTis are the main ones I'll be using! Sigh
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seriousfun
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RE: Vista 64 and Sonar 8
2008/10/31 15:34:02
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ORIGINAL: nathanknight
...
Do you know of decent dual DVI cards that don't have a fan?
Kind Regards
My EVGA (7200?) with NVIDIA GeForce 7300 SE/7200 GS works great, with native Vista 64 drivers. Mine has one DVI and and one VGA (I'm running both monitors analog for equality...but running one digital didn't seem to make a difference) and no fan. I believe they have models with two DVI and no fan - search at Newegg.com for fanless dual DVI video cards.
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Elffin
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RE: Vista 64 and Sonar 8
2008/10/31 16:27:38
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ORIGINAL: nathanknight
What a shame that Spectrasonics VIs (Stylus RMX & Omnisphere) are not 64-bit plugs! These 2 VSTis are the main ones I'll be using! Sigh
I'd email them and ask how long will they take for a 64bit version... I and numerous others have done it - companies need to realise their holding things back!
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nathanknight
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RE: Vista 64 and Sonar 8
2008/11/02 23:16:52
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I think Spectrasonics is somewhat partial to Macs. I've seen them at the NAMM several times and I've seen their videos...they ONLY use Macs...running Logic. Maybe the "logic" in using a Mac is that there arent' all these limitations? Does the Mac OS even have a 32-bit and a 64-bit version? If Spectrasonics makes their products primarily for Macs, maybe having a Windows 64-bit version is further down on their priority list.
Could someone just spell out for me the benefits, pros/cons to using a PC over a Mac, or vice versa? I've considered *thinking* about going Mac several times, but I've been a PC Cakewalk/Sonar use for 15 years and it would be a big jump. Would the trade-off be stability and better performance (of Sonar and other apps)?
Thanks
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