Keni
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/26 12:18:53
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FastBikerBoy
If they either correct the color issue or allow mouse-over recognition that would help a lot!
+100000 - Just because I prefer the new method it doesn't mean that I think it's perfect. Just an improvement IMHO. My report would read - Much improved but still some way to go.
I'm sure Cake are on it.
Yes... Tho it still wouldn't be as fast for me (as 8.5.3) it would be far easier to live with than it is now... ...and please note that I understand and often have a craving for the isolation that the Event Filter now gives us, but I really 'need' to be able to work faster than it currently allows as I do far too much manual editing to be comfortable with it. Note that when I go back to 8.5.3 I sometimes find myself looking for an X1 feature and disappointed when I remember which version has what... So I too hope for more improvements and still believe in The Bakers... I can hardly wait for enuf fixes to be in so that I can drop 8.5.3 and work in a single version once again.... All I really need is for an "ALL" or "Bypass Event Filter" mode and a single-click method of locate time-cursor+select clip and I'll be a much happier camper.... Maybe one day I'll be able to afford a new widescreen monitor (1920x1200) and get over my issues with display limitations of X1 (button sizes/groupings/etc.)... Keni
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bitflipper
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/26 19:01:46
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I'm all up for new ways/improvements but not a return to the past. To quote Bob Katz...there are two kinds of fools in the world: those who say this is old and therefore good, and those who say this is new and therefore better. Progress isn't about periodically tossing the baby out with the bathwater. Real progress is a process of letting go of what doesn't work while hanging on to what does. What on earth could the possible evolutionary justification be for losing popup descriptors on envelopes?  I believe it was just a mistake. At least, I hope that's the case.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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John T
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/26 19:11:22
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They still exist. I'm looking at one right now.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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bitflipper
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/26 19:19:35
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They still exist. I'm looking at one right now. Well, sure, once you've selected an envelope from the dropdown list. But by then I already know which envelope it is!
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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John T
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/26 19:35:48
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http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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Keni
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/26 20:28:49
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bitflipper
I'm all up for new ways/improvements but not a return to the past.
To quote Bob Katz...there are two kinds of fools in the world: those who say this is old and therefore good, and those who say this is new and therefore better.
Progress isn't about periodically tossing the baby out with the bathwater. Real progress is a process of letting go of what doesn't work while hanging on to what does.
What on earth could the possible evolutionary justification be for losing popup descriptors on envelopes?
I believe it was just a mistake. At least, I hope that's the case.
Well Said! +1K Keni
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/27 03:08:05
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What on earth could the possible evolutionary justification be for losing popup descriptors on envelopes?
There isn't one and in fact they are needed even more in X1 than they were in 8.5. Having said that the new edit filter is still an improvement over the 8.5 method. I've seen you say in other posts that you use lots of envelopes on tracks as do I sometimes and that's when I find the edit filter most useful. One thing wrong with it though is you can't easily tell which ghosted envelope is which when wanting to change from one to the other. Could there be a quicker way than shift-click to move from one to the other that would work as effectively? But for separating one envelope from the masses the filter's good. If envelope tool tips are added I'll be even more happy.
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bitflipper
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/27 11:41:20
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It's not like 8.5 had gotten automation down perfectly. I have long criticized SONAR's automation for being incomplete. I had really been hoping that X1 would advance automation features, so I was disappointed to find that not only had X1 made only slight progress forward but had in fact taken a couple steps back. This was one of the main reasons I was drawn to Studio One. They've done such a good job on automation features - and they're only on version 1! Unfortunately, S1 still lags SONAR in other areas, so ultimately I decided that on balance S1 would be only a lateral move and not worth the cost in time and dollars to switch. At least, not yet.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Keni
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/27 12:34:39
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I agree that 8.5 needed more automation 'things' to finish getting it "right"... and I too was very disappointed that they decided it was worth all the losses to gain the one feature of isolation...
Well... Now with months of working with it I'm even more certain that it is a good step, but in sever need of returning the rest of the feature set so long in development... Tho it may not be "so simple" to code, an "ALL" mode would resolve many issues (for me) and fixing the mouseover tooltips would cinch the job....
Tho I's probably use the ALL option most of the time, it would be handy to be ABLE to isolate an envelope when desired...
S1? I've checked it out too... It learned a lot from the years of other software development and their' first roll out shows it... They have the right idea but are still behind in many things... I'm guessing that V2 will adress many of those and V3 might see it into more of a spotlight... It's going where Sonar once was (and then some)...
Let's hope that Sonar gets back what it's lost so that it once again is on the high ground... Most of it is still the same underneath and that learning curve (even into S1 which is so similar) seems a waste of my time.... I could be making music instead! ;-)
Keni
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/28 04:25:03
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I agree that 8.5 needed more automation 'things' to finish getting it "right"... and I too was very disappointed that they decided it was worth all the losses to gain the one feature of isolation...
I think that's a bit unfair. Automation/envelopes were far from right pre-X1, and while I appreciate we all work differently I can't say I've noticed any losses (except the tool tip on mouse over envelope). There's at least two gains, for me anyway. The isolation being one and the new way of adding nodes at selection and moving the envelope all in one go. That feature alone is fantastic IMHO. My old method was to use V-Vocal for volume reductions because I found it so cumbersome in previous Sonar incarnations, but the new way is fantastic. If they bring back the tool tips on roll over to distinguish ghosted data, combined with the shift-click selection I can't see how it could get much easier for getting from one envelope to the next while maintaining isolation. I've never worked with lanes but I'm guessing it wouldn't take many tracks with a lot of envelopes to start using a lot of vertical screen space or is there a way round that? Was it possible pre-X1 to edit two or more envelopes at the same time? I never tried. I used to tear at my bald head when trying to edit envelopes where they were close or worse still crossed over in 8.5 and before. 90% of the time I'd end up selecting the wrong envelope. An absolute nightmare on a really busy automated track where I might have 10+ envelopes.
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Keni
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/28 09:46:46
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FastBikerBoy
I agree that 8.5 needed more automation 'things' to finish getting it "right"... and I too was very disappointed that they decided it was worth all the losses to gain the one feature of isolation...
I think that's a bit unfair. Automation/envelopes were far from right pre-X1, and while I appreciate we all work differently I can't say I've noticed any losses (except the tool tip on mouse over envelope).
There's at least two gains, for me anyway. The isolation being one and the new way of adding nodes at selection and moving the envelope all in one go. That feature alone is fantastic IMHO. My old method was to use V-Vocal for volume reductions because I found it so cumbersome in previous Sonar incarnations, but the new way is fantastic.
If they bring back the tool tips on roll over to distinguish ghosted data, combined with the shift-click selection I can't see how it could get much easier for getting from one envelope to the next while maintaining isolation. I've never worked with lanes but I'm guessing it wouldn't take many tracks with a lot of envelopes to start using a lot of vertical screen space or is there a way round that?
Was it possible pre-X1 to edit two or more envelopes at the same time? I never tried. I used to tear at my bald head when trying to edit envelopes where they were close or worse still crossed over in 8.5 and before. 90% of the time I'd end up selecting the wrong envelope. An absolute nightmare on a really busy automated track where I might have 10+ envelopes.
Hi FBB... Yes, I agree that some of the new envelope features are very good... But the loss of basic speed is more of a constant need for me than any of the other tools... So I'm not asking to go back to 8.5, but I do want my speedy operation back... The requirement of selecting the item prior to editing it slows me down way more than these other features help (me - in the long run). Tho I ran into the situations you mention, They were very infrequent... So again I simply ask for an "ALL" mode so that the selection/isolation can be bypassed and used when I want it... With some luck, the brilliant programmers at Cakewalk will find a way to give us both! Keni
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