Handbanana
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Volume Envelopes?
Im kinda newer to X1 but traditionally I was able to select a volume envelope by just right clicking the track data...Where did the envelopes disappear to?
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/24 17:25:37
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You now need to set the edit filter in the track header to the envelope you wish to edit.
Can also be accessed from the HUD (Press "T" or middle mouse button).
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/24 17:28:46
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BTW - you can shift click on envelopes/clips etc to change the edit filter quickly
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garrigus
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/24 17:34:33
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Keni
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/24 17:59:39
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Too bad I can't tell which envelope is which before double clicking on it...
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Lanceindastudio
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/24 18:02:22
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you double click? I shift click- so fast and easy too :)
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Handbanana
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/24 18:12:54
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Well thank you guys very much, solved my problem, think it was easier with the last version.
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Lanceindastudio
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/24 18:13:03
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Hey Scott, I want to create shortcuts for my most common clip envelopes, volume and pan-
In 8.5 this is impossible to do in sonar without a third party program for macros or such.
Can we make shortcuts for clip envelopes in X1?
I.E. I push alt V for clip voulme envelopes, and alt p for clip pan envelopes-
Ive been requesting these envelopes for a few versions now-
Thanx!
Lance
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Lanceindastudio
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/24 18:17:10
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actually using the toolbar with T (I usually push down the mouse wheel) is fast and easy really instead of going to the beginning of the track so thanx for that!
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Keni
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/24 18:29:32
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Lanceindastudio
you double click? I shift click- so fast and easy too :)
The shift-click is fast to change focus, but to actually edit? If I first shift-click, then I must dbl-click to (for example) add a node.... The problem with the immediate dbl-click (or many other options) is that we can't tell which envelope is which in a situation where there is more than one (typically volume) envelope on a track. Tho I'm told the lines still have a muted version of their' actual color, they all appear black to my eyes and no envelope-function-name appears on a mouse-over... I'm still dreaming that they have already incorporated either an "ALL" mode which makes everything active (as in 8.5.3), or a disable for the Event Filter.... But if they can at least make the envelope's function/name visible (the color/a mouse-over) it would help. Right now I find the automation painful and more tedious than ever before.... I had very few accidental wrong clicks compared to one day's use of the Event Filter let alone 6 months of it! <sigh>... I'm sorry.... I'm ranting again... I'll stop... Keni
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Keni
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/24 18:33:32
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Lanceindastudio
Hey Scott, I want to create shortcuts for my most common clip envelopes, volume and pan-
In 8.5 this is impossible to do in sonar without a third party program for macros or such.
Can we make shortcuts for clip envelopes in X1?
I.E. I push alt V for clip voulme envelopes, and alt p for clip pan envelopes-
Ive been requesting these envelopes for a few versions now-
Thanx!
Lance
Hi Lance... I don't know if you can do it that way, but maybe using the new quick-group? If you have all your tracks selected (Ctrl-A) then hold Ctrl while selecting one of the Event Filter's dropdown offerings, it will select that Filter for all tracks (or whichever you have selected) Keni
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Lanceindastudio
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/24 18:35:40
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they should figure out a way to identify the ones in the background, agreed.
Double clicking for a node doesn't seem to big a deal though - always done this.
Also of course there are other ways of creating nodes as Scott showed in his video clip- Im a double clicker but do want to train myself for more efficient methods!
Lance
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John T
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/24 18:43:21
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Yeah, the colour choice for unselected automation is nuts. Overall. though, I like the new implementation. An "all" option in the filter would be a good addition, though.
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garrigus
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/24 18:46:36
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Hey Lance, If you choose one of the Clip Envelope options from the Edit Filter control on a track, SONAR will automatically add clip envelopes to all the clips in a track. And as Keni suggested, if you select some tracks and then CTRL+Click on the Edit Filter control of one of the tracks and choose an option, it will set that option for all selected tracks. Scott -- Scott R. Garrigus - http://garrigus.com * Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series: http://garrigus.com/?PowerBooks * Author of the Cakewalk Sonar ProAudioTutor video tutorial series: http://garrigus.com/?ProAudioTutor * Publisher of the DigiFreq free music technology newsletter: http://digifreq.com/?DigiFreq * Publisher of the NewTechReview free consumer technology newsletter: http://newtechreview.com/?NewTechReview
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rbowser
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/24 19:28:02
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Handbanana
Well thank you guys very much, solved my problem, think it was easier with the last version.
Yes, well most everything was easier in the last version. X1 is so streamlined in its GUI, with so many critical tools hidden, that now we've gone back to menu after menu and arcane keybindings to memorize - a very clumsy step Way back to early software which was equally unintuitive. RB
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bitflipper
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/24 20:22:11
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X1 is particularly unfriendly to those of us who use extensive hand-edited automation.
If all you have is a volume envelope, it's not so bad. Just a couple extra mouse clicks, which are offset by some handy shortcuts.
But I'm an automation nut. It's not at all unusual for me to have 6 envelopes on a track or bus, all interrelated and correlated and complementary, and often tightly oriented to the audio waveform. For editing complex automation, it's hard to imagine a worse scheme than X1's.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Lanceindastudio
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/24 20:30:42
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Agree to disagree- if we set it up they way we cwant and remember the way things function, I am pointing towards X1 being easier overall-
Ive spent a lot of time with it-
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Keni
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/24 22:55:37
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bitflipper
X1 is particularly unfriendly to those of us who use extensive hand-edited automation.
If all you have is a volume envelope, it's not so bad. Just a couple extra mouse clicks, which are offset by some handy shortcuts.
But I'm an automation nut. It's not at all unusual for me to have 6 envelopes on a track or bus, all interrelated and correlated and complementary, and often tightly oriented to the audio waveform. For editing complex automation, it's hard to imagine a worse scheme than X1's.
Hi BF... That was well put! I too frequently do a lot of hand-edited automation... and X1 is in severe need of fix for us. Here's hoping the Bakers dreamed up something for X1c's release to help us. I've gotta believe that they realized the need by the time we complained if not sooner....
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Lanceindastudio
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/24 23:35:15
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interesting bitflipper- You have my ear cuz we have actually hung out at the Cakewalk Namma hang you put together of of courselol-
Anyway, Ill admit working with envelopes has been tough becasue Im not use to the way it is now... I get by and am not an automation not like you now, but plan to be when I get a controller or 2 more set up for controlling softsynths and plugins in which I can automate tweaks in sound, modualtion etc.
If Cakewalk can really make a smooth way to work with automation and envelopes, I would welcome it all the way.
I have to admit it doesnt feel as smooth as I would liek it to be over all. but I dont know other DAWS too well and don't know if there is actually a really well implemeneted automation and envelope setup out there-
If anybody knows a DAW that really does this stuff well, and I mean hands down good, maybe Caewalk could vibe ont hat.
Lance
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Keni
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/25 00:40:50
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Lanceindastudio
interesting bitflipper- You have my ear cuz we have actually hung out at the Cakewalk Namma hang you put together of of courselol-
Anyway, Ill admit working with envelopes has been tough becasue Im not use to the way it is now... I get by and am not an automation not like you now, but plan to be when I get a controller or 2 more set up for controlling softsynths and plugins in which I can automate tweaks in sound, modualtion etc.
If Cakewalk can really make a smooth way to work with automation and envelopes, I would welcome it all the way.
I have to admit it doesnt feel as smooth as I would liek it to be over all. but I dont know other DAWS too well and don't know if there is actually a really well implemeneted automation and envelope setup out there-
If anybody knows a DAW that really does this stuff well, and I mean hands down good, maybe Caewalk could vibe ont hat.
Lance
Sonar 8.5.3! ;-) Tho it could use some good copy/paste functions... Keni
post edited by Keni - 2011/07/25 00:41:55
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Lanceindastudio
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/25 02:35:58
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yeah I know Keni lol - Ive done many hours on 8.5.3 and it is pretty dang good- i had my gripes there too-
Scott, I know about the envelope on all clips which is really cool I must say ;) Noticed that right away about the edit filter-
Selecting envelopes with the tool pop up via T or my mouse whell pressed down is really nice - I never noticed i could do it from there instead at the track header - love it ;)
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stickman393
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/25 12:24:03
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I wish we could direct all questions like this straight to Cakewalk Support so as to reinforce what a dumb decision removing the right-click option for creating envelopes was.
post edited by stickman393 - 2011/07/25 12:44:39
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/25 12:35:46
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stickman393
I wish we could direct all questions like this straight to Cakewalk Support so as to reinforce what a dumb decision removing the right-click option for envelopes was.
Eh? My right click options are still there, when an envelope has focus that is.
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Keni
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/25 20:38:39
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stickman393
I wish we could direct all questions like this straight to Cakewalk Support so as to reinforce what a dumb decision removing the right-click option for creating envelopes was.
I agree... Even with the Event Filter it could easily have been added to the rt-click (inspector menu) and leave it in it's TV location as well. that would have helped a lot! Keni
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Keni
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/25 20:41:36
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FastBikerBoy
stickman393
I wish we could direct all questions like this straight to Cakewalk Support so as to reinforce what a dumb decision removing the right-click option for envelopes was.
Eh? My right click options are still there, when an envelope has focus that is.
To be fair... Those aren't the commands we're looking for (create/enable), but they did place that in the HUI float (dbl-click)... But it's even more clumsy there as it requires extra clicks to open sub-menus... Keni
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/26 01:47:19
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I must be missing something or perhaps it's just the way I work but I don't see a big difference between pressing the middle mouse button and selecting from the HUD menu and pressing the right menu button and selecting from the context menu.
Although neither is the way I prefer to work as I use a controller to write my automation but I do now find the "T" keyboard press a big help.
While I would never claim that the current automation system is perfect, now I'm used to it, I do find it a big improvement over the previous implementation. In earlier versions when I was trying to edit tracks with a lot of automation on it I was forever accidentally clicking on the wrong envelope or worse still moving the whole clip. That is now impossible to do, so I for one like it. Those that wish to change it please consider us ham-fisted idiots, thank you.
Some of us prefer the new way, over the old at least. I'm all up for new ways/improvements but not a return to the past.
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Notecrusher
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/26 02:39:00
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I'm an automation nutter. I can't comment on X1 cos I'm not on it yet but 8.5 is a freaking nightmare. The automation implementation was one of the things we begged Cakewalk to fix. I've considered switching to another DAW on the basis of how bad working w/ automation in Sonar is alone.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/26 05:26:35
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In earlier versions when I was trying to edit tracks with a lot of automation on it I was forever accidentally clicking on the wrong envelope or worse still moving the whole clip. That is now impossible to do, so I for one like it. Those that wish to change it please consider us ham-fisted idiots, thank you. ^^^^ This I'm an automation nutter. I can't comment on X1 cos I'm not on it yet but 8.5 is a freaking nightmare. The automation implementation was one of the things we begged Cakewalk to fix. ^^^^ And This
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Keni
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/26 10:09:43
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FastBikerBoy
I must be missing something or perhaps it's just the way I work but I don't see a big difference between pressing the middle mouse button and selecting from the HUD menu and pressing the right menu button and selecting from the context menu.
Although neither is the way I prefer to work as I use a controller to write my automation but I do now find the "T" keyboard press a big help.
While I would never claim that the current automation system is perfect, now I'm used to it, I do find it a big improvement over the previous implementation. In earlier versions when I was trying to edit tracks with a lot of automation on it I was forever accidentally clicking on the wrong envelope or worse still moving the whole clip. That is now impossible to do, so I for one like it. Those that wish to change it please consider us ham-fisted idiots, thank you.
Some of us prefer the new way, over the old at least. I'm all up for new ways/improvements but not a return to the past.
Hi FBB.. I mentioned the HUD myself as it is an attempt to place it in a better location than the track header... Now if they would fix it to remove the extra clicks it's use requires it would be an improvment... but still not a solution for me. I too have sufferred the "bad clicks" causing a wrong action and that part is very nice, but it comes at too high a price for me... The once in a while bad click versus the constant multiple clicks to work with the new method... If you had trouble selecting the right envelope before, it's worse now as I must first selct it to find out which one it is... When you've got 3 or more envelopes on a track it can be painful... If they either correct the color issue or allow mouse-over recognition that would help a lot! I'm glad you're comfortable with the new method, I for one am not... I appreciate the isolation but it's at too high a cost (again) as it slows me down far too much... So all I ask is for an "All" mode or Event Filter Bypass so that everything is active and visible all the time... I can always switch it back on if I'm finding too many click errors getting in my way... Keni
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Volume Envelopes?
2011/07/26 11:19:29
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If they either correct the color issue or allow mouse-over recognition that would help a lot!
+100000 - Just because I prefer the new method it doesn't mean that I think it's perfect. Just an improvement IMHO. My report would read - Much improved but still some way to go. I'm sure Cake are on it.
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