ORIGINAL: Soundweaver


I do hope the market votes with their dollars in this case, because you've lost a customer and I'll be sure to let folks know what they are getting into when they "buy" (or in Waves dictionary meaning "lease until you change the rules") your good sounding software. Sure, if they get into it now, it's no trouble...just get an iLock and you're all set....UNTIL 2009 when Waves introduces the all-new "iLock II-Tiger/XP Platinum Edition" and you can only reinstall if you get the new iLock system. For only $99...

Owned!

Damn... and I was thinking about getting the Waves SSL bundle one day... but now I have my reservations!

Quick question: If I purchase Waves bundle now and an ILok, will I also have to pay annual maintenance fee? I was a bit confused about that detail. Thanks.

...Damn... and I was thinking about getting the Waves SSL bundle one day... but now I have my reservations!...

That's just where I'm at right now...except it is now July 2011 - much much later than when this post was started.

I have been reading reviews & shopping for plugs, and was thinking about the Waves SSL 4000 bundle.

BUT...after reading this & a bunch of other disgruntled posts(al employees... no just kidding there), I too have my reservations.

I too have posted a few beefs about Waves and there SS-NAZI-like stance towards their customers who pay hundreds if not thousands of dollars to use their stuff, only to be dinged again before long!

[Rather ironic since they are, (or at least were) based in Israel, wouldn't you say?]

I must admit, I did purchase one small bundle (Musician's Bundle II) from Waves this January for a measly $117.00, and 2 single plugs about a month ago on some good promos, but I haven't actually used any of them yet, because of a glitch from the start.

And speaking of the 'maintenance fee for ongoing support', I contacted them just once because of that simple glitch that was even acknowledged by the makers of the particular DAW that the bundle deal was offered through, and the response I got was:

"Our plugins work just fine! Your system needs help or upgrading!"
(The tone reeked of arrogance, with a complete unwillingness to help or even inquire about the issue.)

Oh really, I thought? Gee thanks for all your time and assistance a$$wipe! 

"As we speak, the DAW people you've partnered with have told us that they have contacted you at Waves to 'find a solution'."

My computer? How about your lazy attitude that you're ever so comfortable charging ongoing additional monies for, as the years go by???

Especially to your loyal customers.

Man, if I treated my customers in my business that way...I wouldn't have any!!

So I'm tempted to contact them and tell them that:

A) I, like many others, object to their WUP (your arse) plan;

B) Although I have spent a mere $200.00 or so on a half dozen of their plugs, I've decided not to even bother getting started with them, knowing what's coming at me down the road, as I will most likely be upgrading my computer or OS sooner than later.

It wouldn't be the first $200.00 dollars I've pissed away, and I'm sure it won't be the last!

Instead, as of now, July 2011, there happens to be literally scores and scores of new plugs and competitors out there, many of which who are:
1. Rivaling your products;
2. Bettering your support & attitude;
3. AND all of them beat your prices, often giving away many free plugins, while offering great prices and supreme quality in and of their pay-for products.

There are now some great plugins with many many choices. UAD-2; Voxengo (with 13 free); URS; Duende has just released their SSL line - AND announced that there hardware customers will be charged absolutely NOTHING to cross over to their new Software line; Izotope Ozone 4; T-Racks 3 has just come out; Native Instruments just released their Compressor Classics of the DBX 160, the LA2A, and the 1176 for a mere $229.00; Kjaerhus Audio and the list goes on & on & on.

The problem with being on top is not so much getting there Barry & the others @Waves, it's staying there!
Is it lonely at the top? It doesn't look like it will be for long.

Looks like the ride might be slowing right down - and quite drastically, if things continue as they are!

jimusic

Well, if I ever DID have any notion of investing Waves plugs, this has permanently, irrevocably turned me right off the idea!

you guys realize this thread was resurrected from nearly FOUR years ago, right?

The current price drops might be an indication that they're starting to realize that WILL need to take smaller studios seriously, even if they hate it.

It seems to me, ( Disclaimer: not being a Waves customer this is only an uninformed opinion, if I were a customer of this high priced software I might feel completely different). Anyway, maybe if they offered a 99 dollar a year fee for some limited number of support hours, all updates, and unlimited recertification of purchased software... they might not have a problem as long as they upgraded the software from time to time under this plan... BUT 450 bucks?? or whatever it was 400?? Man, that is a wad of dough these days just to get something you already bought to work again after a HD crash.
 
Just a thought... if you use an offsite backup company like Carbonite or Mozy and you have a crash, would you be able to restore everything without dealing with these idiots? Surely there is a workaround for those who have not already been caught unaware... but maybe not.
In any case, I will think ong and hard before spending money on any Waves software. This post was very informative and will likely push me hard in another direction. I understand that Waves is great software but frankly, they are treating people as if they, Waves, are a government or a power company with a monopoly. Sort of like the DMV in the USA (department of motor vehicles)... do you think they care?? Think again...
 
Whoever made this decision does NOT understand how business works. As a business owner I learned (well I already knew) and always practiced this policy: The customer is always right. I charge a fair price for my services. I do not charge the wealthy more but sometimes I charge the poor less. I have some standard rates and find that everything generally balances out, I may make a little more on one job and a little less on another and if a customer is ever dissatisfied, even when I know that there really is no problem... I smile and redo the work... then I have not ony a happy customer but I have a customer for life who will refer their friends and family. Even giving the customer a perception of being unfair will do much damage.
 
I think this Mark Twain quote applies here because it applies equally to bad news as it does to a lie,
 
“A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes” Mark Twain  
Waves needs to get a clue in a hurry, make some apologies, and make their customer base happy. It isn't always easy to say, "We were wrong" especially if you really don't think you were wrong but sometimes it is expedient. They realy need to re-think this because it is causing them harm. They may think that they are so big and their software is so good that they can get away with anything but... financial times are shaky and the competition WILL take advantage of this and Waves may really get hurt if they don't backpeddle fast.... and that is what I think. I will be buying mastering software next spring and as things are now I will no longer be considering Waves... Now it will be between T-Racks and UAD.
I simply do not understand why a business would choose to take such an unfriendly position, I almost wonder if something cultura is lost in translation, surely they are not really this stupid regarding customer service... their products are expensive, maybe they figure that anyone who can afford Waves will consider 400+ dollars as pocket change... I just don't see any other way to explain it.
 
Julien

Thanks Rain. I assumed that what was beig said was correct. Waves needs to jump in and get things straightened out because the Twain quote still applies... (not calling anyone a liar but if the allow confusion and misinformation to simmer, it may as well be true for the harm it will do).
 
Thanks again, I will rethink myself and reconsider Waves. I glad you spoke up. Your posts always seem to be a thoughtful and reasonable.
 
Julien

Rednroll

and it's perfectly on-topic to discuss plugins on a computer audio forum, I think.

Just for clarification, I totally agree. I was making a joke in my original post. The way the aministrators determine what is on topic and off topic in the Sonar forum is really a joke in my opinion. This is one that definately effects a lot of Sonar users that use Waves plugins, and I was glad to see the post in the Sonar forum, so that I was made aware of it. Generally speaking here's what I notice as to what is "off topic". It's when you post a message in a negative manor, especially when it has to do with bashing another software vendor. How many times did the Sony root kit fiasco topics get moved and shut down? The funny thing is that the same discussions where happening in the Sony forums, and they remained there. Just because, one or two so called "users" determine a subject is "off topic", it doesn't mean that this viewpoint is shared by everyone. It's all hypocritical behavior that only tarnishes the users perception of the Cakewalk administrators. Can anyone say, "hey let's partner up with the company responsible for completely destroying another software vendor, and act like we don't remember anything about it (ie Gibson/Opcode) and let those posts alone, but let's make sure we move topics out of the Sonar forum concerning another 3rd party software vendor product used in Sonar where it might get the most exposure, when a user brings the concern to light. Seems pretty hypocritical to me. This is not the type of behavior that brings a forum community together, it's one that divides it against each other. But hey, it's Cakewalk's forum right? They can do whatever they think is "right" and "wrong", it doesn't mean we have to agree with it. In the end, they're the ones who look like the horses behind.

My Sentiments exactly!
 
Democracy gone right???