Wavetables in Dimension Pro

Don't know if I missed it somewhere, but is there a GRAPHICAL representation of the Single-Cycle Wavetable files anywhere?

Dimension doesn't create graphical representations of any files: not multi-samples, wavetables, waveguides or impulse responses. It's implied that you'll have Notepad and an audio editor waiting in the wings if you wanna get deep into editing.

Otherwise, if you're spending most of your time making music with DP rather than training it to sit and roll over, can't you just listen to the timbre of the wavetables to distinguish between them? My point is, all the built in waveform viewers I've seen in other samplers (Kontakt, Short Circuit, et al) seem too small and gimmicky compared to a dedicated editor. I don't think wave editing or browsing from within Dim Pro would fit René's intended “instrument profile” at all.

When loading a Single-Cycle file, I don't see anywhere to indicate you just loaded a Single-Cycle file that is within the "samples limit" that turns that Element into an Oscillator.

Yes, it's a nice idea in theory and you almost had me sold… But take a moment to consider the power of sfz and the obvious complications: there's no reason why a single sfz file can't instruct a Dim Pro element to play back an incongruous mix of wavetables, waveguides & samples on a <region> by <region> basis. This is why trying to wire up a pretty little “wavetable active” light would be futile in the end.

Whether loading a Single-Cycle wavetable file or a file that is 20kb in size....the size next to the name after loading still says: [0.0].

Heh, heh. I noticed that too… seems that if you're using sample so small that they might of fit inside the machine was the inspiration for my avatar then they don't rate a mention on the dim [sic] GUI.

If you still don't feel comfortable with trusting Dimension to slip into wavetable mode when the file size qualifies, try making a painless little sfz than forces wavetable mode:

<region>
sample=00 - Wavetables\sine.wav
oscillator=on

…save that in the root multisample folder and load it into an empty element. This, in theory, should force wavetable mode. However, try using oscillator=off instead… still hearing the oscillation? Thought so… seems that Dimension will go the wavetable route with tiny files whether you want it to or not. Weird. Must be overiding the opcode.

Now, what about a longer file? Try this one:

…actually, scratch that! Dimension's doing something screwy here… I'll get be to ya once I've nutted it out.

ORIGINAL: Paradroid

Dimension doesn't create graphical representations of any files: not multi-samples, wavetables, waveguides or impulse responses. It's implied that you'll have Notepad and an audio editor waiting in the wings if you wanna get deep into editing.

correct, that pretty easy to see...hence my suggestion for one.

Let me re-word it: The reason why I'm asking is simply because since Dimension itself is dubbed a "synth"...most synths out there give you different internal waveforms to pick from for each oscillator (most all synths have this feature) and others "analyze" them as in the case of Sytrus. I must clarify here...I am by no means a GURU at patch creating, but having a graphical representation of the waves is educational as well. Instead of having to sift thru various included waveforms, I have a better understanding now when a waveforms looks a certain way (like a sine)...it's going to produce a certain timbre. A good example would be something like "zeta add 3.wav" - no idea what this waveform looks like, I would just have to load up each one until I get the sound I want, but the timing for this could be cut down if there was a graphical representation of them.

This also poses a problem with external waveforms (if say we had made up a table of all the ones included with DPro), but Sytrus has met the middle road on this nicely as it analyzes an external waveform and from there you can shape the waveform even further.

ORIGINAL: Paradroid

Otherwise, if you're spending most of your time making music with DP rather than training it to sit and roll over, can't you just listen to the timbre of the wavetables to distinguish between them? My point is, all the built in waveform viewers I've seen in other samplers (Kontakt, Short Circuit, et al) seem too small and gimmicky compared to a dedicated editor. I don't think wave editing or browsing from within Dim Pro would fit René's intended “instrument profile” at all.

By no means do I expect DPro to have the capability or ever have the capability to do wave editing. I'm just comparing it to other synths that offer graphical representations of oscillator waveforms. DPro IS marketed as a synth as well, so I think it's fair to compare in that respect.

We all have different ways we go about making music. I can tell you're a fairly intelligent fella and like talking about all the technical stuff, but as someone mentioned in another post about the depth of DPro....I'm currently in no rush to dig that deep and yes, I want to make music, so for the time being I just want to stick to the interface and use it to whatever capacity. Once I get more familiar with and confident in the DPro interface and what each parameter does....then I'll go the next step. There's no way I can get into the SFZ before mastering the Envelopes

ORIGINAL: Paradroid

Yes, it's a nice idea in theory and you almost had me sold… But take a moment to consider the power of sfz and the obvious complications: there's no reason why a single sfz file can't instruct a Dim Pro element to play back an incongruous mix of wavetables, waveguides & samples on a <region> by <region> basis. This is why trying to wire up a pretty little “wavetable active” light would be futile in the end.

I wouldn't know if this is possible when talking to an SFZ file, but I reckon if it can read all that other stuff in an SFZ file...
Only Rene can answer that.

Now...how about a Single-Cycle file with no SFZ attached? Again...if it analyzes the sample cycles of a file when loading....some kind of indicator to at least tell us its acting in one of the 3 modes mentioned in the manual.

ORIGINAL: Paradroid

If you still don't feel comfortable with trusting Dimension to slip into wavetable mode when the file size qualifies, try making a painless little sfz than forces wavetable mode:

<region>
sample=00 - Wavetables\sine.wav
oscillator=on

…save that in the root multisample folder and load it into an empty element. This, in theory, should force wavetable mode. However, try using oscillator=off instead… still hearing the oscillation? Thought so… seems that Dimension will go the wavetable route with tiny files whether you want it to or not. Weird. Must be overiding the opcode.

Now, what about a longer file? Try this one:

…actually, scratch that! Dimension's doing something screwy here… I'll get be to ya once I've nutted it out.

To be honest....I have not even messed around with SFZ files yet as I'm still trying to get my head around the interface and its components. A few of you around here seem very knowledgeable about the SFZ stuff and how to take advantage of it.....and that's one reason I haven't really participated in any of your dialog as right now it's simply over my head. With roughly 7GB of multi-patches (thank you Cakewalk!)....I owe it to Cakewalk and myself to use those as an excellent base to start my journey into using DPro. I'm in it for the long haul as I like what I see in Dimension, but in the same respect....I just want to have some fun with Dimension and make some good music without getting too technical.

ORIGINAL: Paradroid

Glad to hear you're in it for the long haul. Hopefully, the “haul” will become more like a “ride” as time goes on.

I use Dimension almost exclusively with home brewed samples and programs but really it's marketed to those with a mission statement more akin to your own than mine. That's why there isn't an abundance of readouts & displays describing the actual sample content of patches.

You're probably right and this is also it's first incarnation in "Pro" format and a VST. As a Version 1 VST, it's pretty impressive. I can't wait to see what v2, v3 will offer!

Having only owned Dimension for like 3 weeks.......I'm STILL checking out the 7 gigs! I DO like the idea of everyone offering up patches around here, though, like a "local PatchArena"....I think that's a great idea - so 1 vote here!

ORIGINAL: Paradroid

And with the technical side, I feels it's healthy to prod people and get some discussion going on the further possibilities of this beast.

I hope that you find time to try your hand at rolling your own sfzs… I'm sure you'll find it rewarding. Just pasting that code I wrote into a new .txt file in your Multisample directory and changing the extension to .sfz would be an okay place to start…

And, yeah, you seem like a “fairly intelligent” sort yourself!

OH! you can BET I'll get into the SFZ stuff! (just not right now). I hold my own in (non-music) app programming (Delphi & VB), so SFZ shouldn't really be over my head, but when it comes to Music....I turn into a much simpler guy and get right down to business.

....and yep, I agree - everyone's and any input is a little token in the big bank of knowledge. Internet & Forums are truly wonderful, aren't they? They can be bad in some ways as well

Thanks for the "back-atcha" - we're now in agreement that we're both at least "fairly intelligent"

Forced load; It's not a single cycle file but using an opcode you can instruct Dimension to load up a short segment of audio? And this will load not as regular sample but as an oscillator? But could you specify the play back as say loop? Where you could say loop front to back or back to front or continuous? Where a sample is read front to back then reverses direction to back to front? I ask this as I consider this to be a type of granular synthesis. And my understanding of it is limited. I don't consider Dimension to be a quote granular synth but if an opcode exists to perform this function and I could instruct it to do so. Now I could just set this up in SoundForge and cut/loop a short section of sound pitched to set then export this to a SFZ file. I'm basically doing the same thing but I'm scrounging around in the dark here. I'm at the extreme edge of what I imagine the SFZ format could do or just guessing? I have some inking that this SFZ format might evolve almost to the audio editor detail/state where you could instruct some major manipulation? Or is all this just wishful thinking on my part. I have performed these backflips using an audio editor so it's not a fanciful idea but, And I'm just thinking out loud here where would this end? While Rene is in process writing the spec and defining what it can and cannot do speculation sets in. I'm just at the very starting point myself. While you Paradroid are many steps ahead. What does your crystal ball say?

Well techead said here we go. I'm not having trouble breathing so much as I got the goose bumps on that one. But I've been a fan since Pentagon, So like you I have a intuition on this, Rene always takes it up a few knotches. Alway playing catch up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paradroid

Yes, it's a nice idea in theory and you almost had me sold… But take a moment to consider the power of sfz and the obvious complications: there's no reason why a single sfz file can't instruct a Dim Pro element to play back an incongruous mix of wavetables, waveguides & samples on a <region> by <region> basis. This is why trying to wire up a pretty little “wavetable active” light would be futile in the end.



I wouldn't know if this is possible when talking to an SFZ file, but I reckon if it can read all that other stuff in an SFZ file...
Only Rene can answer that.

For sure, a sfz file can contain mutiple regions, some being oscillators, some others being samples and waveguides. All layered, mapped, velocity or keyboard switched and what not.

Still, getting an indication of the active mode for direct-loaded wav files sounds feasible (thought not useful other than for instructional purposes I guess). Make sure you FR it.

The crystal ball says: definitely more cool **** on the way! René never rests… I reckon, full documentation of the updated sfz spec is probably the most important thing we could pray for at this point in time.

Thanks guys. The docs for this are way overdue, and I'm afraid a little bit low in the infinite todo list. It happens that customers want more, better, now. 48 hs days in stock anyone?


-René

The guy I work with (musically) is way into Chinese Five Element Theory (Wu Sing) and his grand master is purported to only sleep 1 or 2 hours every night. However, I suspect some major lifestyles changes would be in order for a mad coder such as yourself to reach enlightenment… too much brain activity.

I'm already doing so. Does Wu Sing suggest any other option to recover time?


-René

Wow! 5 new words added to my UltraEdit-32 sfz definition:

alternate
forward
backward
alternate
loop_tune01=

Well, that's cheating the count, innit? Or it's alternate with other color?

The 01 in loop_tune means 'the first loop'. It can be applied to most loop commands in v2, to indicate what loop you're trying to define.

The implicances of defining a loop in reverse, and the interaction with the direction=reverse opcode are hugely intrincated. Stay away of trouble

-René

There you guys go again......gettin' technical on SFZ

P. Droidy - I think your domain name is more appropriate for you as a moniker: "SFZgeek"

cool! we shall see then what sfz-geek.com will bring us in the New Year then! I assume that's you on the homepage - the blondie with, what looks like, messing with plenty of gear...

Don't know how this is going to turn out, but I've already started working on a little proggie on the wavetables bit. I got the Drag/Drop already working, but need to work on the wavefiles into graphic format.

• will be a small "stand-alone" app and NOT a VST. I don't know how to code for VST yet, so that won't happen....
  
• very small interface that stays "always on top" as to not get in the way of Dimension and underlying host
  
• graphical representation of wavetable files (most probably as 32x32 or 48x48 icons)
  
• pick your file from an "always on top" combo-box which has the original filename and graphic next to the name
  
• drag-drop that wavetable file (which links to the original files in the "00 - Wavetables" files - into Dimension
  

Anyway....it's just a work-around for those like me who want to see those files in graphical format and taking it a step further as to also allow for drag/drop from that screen. SO.....we shall see....

Don't know how this is going to turn out, but I've already started working on a little proggie on the wavetables bit.

Sounds like a cool concept. I like it. Please share once you're done…