Helpful ReplyWe Can Work It Out

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bapu
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2012/04/05 20:49:18 (permalink)

We Can Work It Out

One of those pivotal songs by the Beatles, no? 
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Jonbouy
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Re:We Can Work It Out 2012/04/05 21:09:04 (permalink)
Ugh!

"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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BenMMusTech
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Re:We Can Work It Out 2012/04/05 21:25:15 (permalink)
Ah a topic that is my specialty, YES bapu, YES.

The whole McCartney almost sexist trip:
Try to see it my way,
Do I have to keep on talking till I can't go on?
While you see it your way,
Run the risk of knowing that our love may soon be gone.

Think of what you're saying.
You can get it wrong and still you think that it's all right.
Think of what I'm saying,
We can work it out and get it straight, or say good night.

Then Lennon the great philosopher with the simple lines but poignant, chimes in:
Life is very short, and there's no time
For fussing and fighting, my friend.
I have always thought that it's a crime,
So I will ask you once again

I don't know my 20th century philosopher's I should I know, but Lennon even though it's simple what he is saying is quoting pure philosophy and should be counted as a philosopher and one of the 20th centuries best.

It's funny how people just don't see the McCartney sexism, I think has something to do with them not listening to McCartney's lyrics but the melody and lets get this straight the melody is one of Mc's finest.  But they remember Lennon's lyrics and his part.

Lennon is and should be considered a Polymath (look it up)
 
Neb from the Nebula Neb
post edited by BenMMusTech - 2012/04/05 21:27:15

Benjamin Phillips-Bachelor of Creative Technology (Sound and Audio Production), (Hons) Sonic Arts, MMusTech (Master of Music Technology), M.Phil (Fine Art)
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jamesg1213
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Re:We Can Work It Out 2012/04/06 03:28:02 (permalink)
'They're starving out in China
So finish what you got''


How exactly was that going to help?

 
Jyemz
 
 
 



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craigb
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Re:We Can Work It Out 2012/04/06 04:02:19 (permalink)
jamesg1213


'They're starving out in China
So finish what you got''


How exactly was that going to help?

Several problems could be solved if both China and India turned to cannibalism.  Maybe if Indian food was served in China and the Indians had Chinese it wouldn't seem as disturbing?
 


 
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Re:We Can Work It Out 2012/04/06 04:15:19 (permalink)
BenMMusTech
 
Lennon is and should be considered a Polymath (look it up

I don't need to Nebuchadnezzar...
 
Does that make me one?
 
And I know that a 'neb' is a bird's beak.
 
 

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BenMMusTech
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Re:We Can Work It Out 2012/04/06 04:21:25 (permalink)
jamesg1213


'They're starving out in China
So finish what you got''


How exactly was that going to help?
What? Another great philosphical line, he' saying hey be grateful you have something to eat because in china they were starving the whole Mao thing.
 
Another thing you are quoting Nobody Told Me, Lennon's last top ten hit 1984, a song that was not finished and meant for Ringo.  It was the bare bones of the track layed down in the weeks before he died 
 
Another thing about that track is you have you have quoted a small phrase it's the whole song that is philsophical, verse 1:
 
Everybody's talking and no one says a word
Everybody's making love and no one really cares
There's Nazis in the bathroom just below the stairs
Always something happening and nothing going on
There's always something cooking and nothing in the pot
They're starving back in China so finish what you got
Want to go Beatle facts with Beatle facts with me you will alway's loose.
 
I bet you just see goboldy gook but look at the fisrt line
 
Everybody's talking and no one says a word
How is that not in his simple way philosophical, it is who else in pop/rock was writing under the cover of darkeness stiff like that.
 
There's Nazis in the bathroom just below the stairs
He's talking about Paranoia.
 
Always something happening and nothing going on
 
Again he 's made a very astue observation.
So already if we take the lyrics of the first verse and not just the line you quoted, it's simple, yes but very astute philosophy thats designed for the average person that listens to pop, it's sublimanal.
 
And the line Nobody Told Me There Would be Days Like These
he 's talking about how we are not prepared for the world by our elders: Parent's, family, priests polictions.
 
You can accuse it of being simple like Imagine but that's the point pop music is suppose to be throw away or digested by people like fast food and here is a man dropping subliminal messages into your fast food.
 
Why do you think the man is still reveried after 50 years, yes folks, it's 50 years since Love Me Do, go for it attack  that as what it was, a cheesburger.
 
Why do you think the catholic church is still afraid of this man, they absovle him of the sin of boastfulness 40 years after the event: "We're popular than Jesus, I don't know which will go first rock and roll or christanity"  Well folks, lets add prophet to Lennons reusume, Rock and Roll is still here but in every other western country including the United States Christanity is in decline.  Proof well who here gives a flying **** about Good Friday, it's a holiday for every one, yes I know they're a few christians left and I'm not here to knock them.
 
But in America christanity has retreated to the poorer middle states, with high levels of black poverty.  And the chruches wickedness (sorry, I know some of you and are my friends are big on christanity, I am spiritualist and believe in the universe as a divine structure, i am just as religious as these friends just not in the organised way) prey upon this.
 
Every where in the western white world christanity is dead, they are selling their once great asset horde, buildings and land holdings just to keep the dog's from the door.
 
So what do they do, they move to Africa, they are huge in the poorer states of latin america because they arn't as educated, they are preying upon the poor.
 
But Lennon was a prophet, he predicted it the end of christanity as a force, now he was talking about England at the time and he has say's so in so many statements but his statement has become true beyond England.  Hence the Catholic church are still frightend of him to this day.
 
Go for it knock him on his simplicity "All You Need Is Love" I mean is'nt that a christian message and if you had a good ear the song Nobody Told Me is actually Instant Karma re-written but don't ever knock the great man.  If we had John Lennon today, the world would be a better place because he tried to speak the truth through experience.
 
"I've seen the one eyed witch doctor I've got nothing to hide"
"Yes love is the answer and you know that for sure"
 
Was he a nice man, probably he had bad moments like the rest but he is still a great philospher, prophet and poat, a polymath.
 
I will always goo head to head with anyone on Lennon and Beatle facts, If I could do The Beatles Masters degree at The University of Liverpool I would.
 
Sorry James but we need Lennon more than ever, we are a rudderless ship this world of ours, he was willing to jump into the crows nest whilst the storm raged around to help us find land, who's left???
 
Neb reporting from the Nebula Neb
post edited by BenMMusTech - 2012/04/06 04:34:51

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Rain
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Re:We Can Work It Out 2012/04/06 04:39:10 (permalink)
Lennon was clever, I'll give you that. He had a way w/ words. He had a big mouth. Wrote amazing songs. He's one of my all time favorite songwriters.

A philosopher or a prophet is isn't. He just liked to brag and repeat things he'd read in books and misunderstood. The so-called end of christianity has been foretold way before Lennon's grand father was even born.

If you learn anything from Lennon, it's not because he was the first to say it or thought of it first - far from it. It's just because he bragged about it - and missed the point more often than not. If you want philosophy, visit your local library.

He was a musician and a songwriter and he wrote some timeless gems. That's already enough of an accomplishment.

Calling Lennon a philosopher and a prophet is like calling the National Enquirer a scientific manual. 

Just like rambling about the state of christianity in America doesn't make one a philosopher. 

I can also tell you that we have many friends here whom your ramblings about their faith may very well insult. Your "vision" of America is TOTALLY messed up Ben and has nothing to do w/ reality - worst than Lennon's. Even I as an atheist and a canadian can tell you that.


Besides, read the sign on the door- No Religion. ;)


post edited by Rain - 2012/04/06 04:43:16

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BenMMusTech
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Re:We Can Work It Out 2012/04/06 04:48:59 (permalink)
Rain


Lennon was clever, I'll give you that. He had a way w/ words. He had a big mouth. Wrote amazing songs. He's one of my all time favorite songwriters.

A philosopher or a prophet is isn't. He just liked to brag and repeat things he'd read in books and misunderstood. The so-called end of christianity has been foretold way before Lennon's grand father was even born.

If you learn anything from Lennon, it's not because he was the first to say it or thought of it first - far from it. It's just because he bragged about it - and missed the point more often than not. If you want philosophy, visit your local library.

He was a musician and a songwriter and he wrote some timeless gems. That's already enough of an accomplishment.

Calling Lennon a philosopher and a prophet is like calling the National Inquirer a scientific manual. 

Just like rambling about the state of christianity in America doesn't make one a philosopher. 

I can also tell you that we have many friends here whom your ramblings about their faith may very well insult. Your "vision" of America is TOTALLY messed up Ben and has nothing to do w/ reality - worst than Lennon's. Even I as an atheist and a canadian can tell you that.


Besides, read the sign on the door- No Religion. ;)

You are right and have said Mea Culpa to our religious friends and declared myself religious, Lennon was not the first to decalre the end of Christanity what I was saying was about reach, for the first time in history one man via the global media declared it and helped hasten the decline.
 
No offence was meant to our religious friends, I believe in The Universe as the devine and I hope our religious friends understand what I mean.  Just because I don't go to church or whatever deos not mean I don't believe in a devine structure, then we start getting into a whole another level of philosophy and dulisim, not decartes dulisim but free will vs no free will.
 
Neb from The Nebula Neb

Benjamin Phillips-Bachelor of Creative Technology (Sound and Audio Production), (Hons) Sonic Arts, MMusTech (Master of Music Technology), M.Phil (Fine Art)
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#9
alexoosthoek
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Re:We Can Work It Out 2012/04/06 05:14:19 (permalink)
bapu


One of those pivotal songs by the Beatles, no? 


Thanks Eduardo, now I can't get this peepsong out of my head

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craigb
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Re:We Can Work It Out 2012/04/06 07:15:10 (permalink)

 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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Re:We Can Work It Out 2012/04/06 07:18:24 (permalink)
I'll not state my mind on your rantings above, Ben.  most everyone here knows I have strong opinions which differ from a lot of your views.

but I'll say that discussion of religion and politics is against the TOS in the forum.  I would like to respectfully request that you follow that rule.

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Re:We Can Work It Out 2012/04/06 07:50:38 (permalink)
bapu


One of those pivotal songs by the Beatles, no? 



See what you did now Ukelele Man?


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Re:We Can Work It Out 2012/04/06 07:59:07 (permalink)

BenMMusTech


jamesg1213


'They're starving out in China
So finish what you got''


How exactly was that going to help?
What? 
 
............................................

No need for me to reply Ben, Rain said pretty much everything I feel about the subject.

 
Jyemz
 
 
 



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Re:We Can Work It Out 2012/04/06 08:03:11 (permalink)
Rain


Lennon was clever, I'll give you that. He had a way w/ words. He had a big mouth. Wrote amazing songs. He's one of my all time favorite songwriters.

A philosopher or a prophet is isn't. He just liked to brag and repeat things he'd read in books and misunderstood. The so-called end of christianity has been foretold way before Lennon's grand father was even born.

If you learn anything from Lennon, it's not because he was the first to say it or thought of it first - far from it. It's just because he bragged about it - and missed the point more often than not. If you want philosophy, visit your local library.

He was a musician and a songwriter and he wrote some timeless gems. That's already enough of an accomplishment.

Calling Lennon a philosopher and a prophet is like calling the National Enquirer a scientific manual. 

Just like rambling about the state of christianity in America doesn't make one a philosopher. 

I can also tell you that we have many friends here whom your ramblings about their faith may very well insult. Your "vision" of America is TOTALLY messed up Ben and has nothing to do w/ reality - worst than Lennon's. Even I as an atheist and a canadian can tell you that.


Besides, read the sign on the door- No Religion. ;)

 
Good post Rain.
 
Couldn't have put it better myself.
 
 

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Re:We Can Work It Out 2012/04/06 08:37:53 (permalink)

Lennon helped save an entire generation of young American men from being kidnapped by the military industrial machine and sent over to kill babies.

He did so by speaking publicly about peace and promoting the idea that the Viet Nam war must be ended.

I was one of the guys who was saved by his efforts. I grew up in knowledge of the fact that I was just a few years away from being kidnapped and sent over myself.

I was forced to sign up and my only consolation was that my Dad, who as a teenager had killed other teenagers at point blank range in France and Belgium in the service of our country, told me he'd do everything he could to help me avoid living through that experience.


I don't care if Mr Lennon didn't really understand why peace is preferable to carpet bombing and shooting women and children at point blank range*. He helped end the war by speaking against it publicly.

It's ironic to see several guys, who didn't live this experience, criticize a guy who helped so many people.

Furthermore, the criticism that Mr. Lennon didn't come up with ideas all by himself seems disingenuous. How does culture happen if people don't pass along ideas from one to another? Philosphy isn't something you understand the first time you read or speak about it... you have to read and speak about it some more, and then slowly parts of it seem to make sense and other stuff is revealed as nonsense. That's just the nature of culture.


Anyways, I'm shocked to see this tag team criticism of Mr. Lennon. He was a proponent of the golden rule and it seems like we all have so much to consider that we have in common that it doesn't seem helpful to focus on the differences in an attempt to disagree with Ben.

It seems like a healthy and polite disagreement, with Ben, can be had without besmirching the legacy of a person like Mr Lennon who has certainly contributed to the culture of peace.


best regards,
mike
post edited by mike_mccue - 2012/04/06 08:40:06


#16
Rain
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Re:We Can Work It Out 2012/04/06 09:22:00 (permalink)
I'm not criticizing his impact, Mike. Lennon had more immediate influence than most of the greatest thinkers.

Actually, that's what is sad. It took a pop star to market peace and make it "fashionable".  People may have benefited from it, and I will never disagree on that. 

But people will still fall for slogans before they fall for true reflexion, which is why IMHO, things don't really change all that much. 

How do ideas get passed along? By making them trendy. And Lennon and his wife were geniuses at marketing slogans.

Calling Lennon a prophet and philosopher is the equivalent of blinding oneself - he merely indicated that there was something to think about.  But it's the Golden Calf all over again every time.

I don't disagree w/ the values he promoted - I disagree w/ the cult and the hero worshiping. Maybe they are an integral part of our "culture" but they're not something I think is all that valuable - they get in the way of true reflexion.


EDIT - I feel compelled to say it again - Lennon is one of my all time favorites. I own every Beatles record, everything he recorded after that. I've spent a fair chunk of my time reading about them, studying their music since I was a teenager - and I still do occasionally. I certainly recognize him as one of the important figures of the 20th century. 
post edited by Rain - 2012/04/06 09:34:02

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Re:We Can Work It Out 2012/04/06 09:59:29 (permalink)

"How do idea get passed along? By making them trendy. And Lennon and his wife were geniuses at marketing slogans."


Yes, both of them were clever enough to realize that pop culture and media such as music and television was just as effective for sharing ideas as any other social "network" or more traditional culture.

They didn't come up with that idea. They just used it effectively.

I think it may be helpful to appreciate that a person like Mr. Lennon and his peers lived through the very time when information and media distribution went from being provincial to universal.

How many other entertainers have made as good a use of popular culture?

I'm not to distracted by hero worship... I'm not in to it either, but that's a criticism best directed at the worshipers and not the "hero".

I happen to think that Mr Lennon was indeed a prophetic voice for a significant portion of the populace.

all the best,
mike



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bapu
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Re:We Can Work It Out 2012/04/06 10:39:48 (permalink)
Apparently the title of my fred is NOT working.




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Jonbouy
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Re:We Can Work It Out 2012/04/06 10:39:52 (permalink)
See post #2 then someone give me a yellow helpful banner thingy...please.

"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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bapu
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Re:We Can Work It Out 2012/04/06 10:41:17 (permalink)
Jonbouy


Ugh!


Jonbouy


See post #2 then someone give me a yellow helpful banner thingy...please.

Are you a precog?
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Jonbouy
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Re:We Can Work It Out 2012/04/06 10:43:05 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
bapu


Jonbouy


Ugh!


Jonbouy


See post #2 then someone give me a yellow helpful banner thingy...please.

Are you a precog?


Zackty!

Should of I looked it up first?...

"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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57Gregy
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Re:We Can Work It Out 2012/04/06 10:45:42 (permalink)
Before this thread gets locked for discussing religion and politics, I'd like to say I like the song.
Was that an accordion, harmonium or mellotron in it? Or some other instrument?

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Re:We Can Work It Out 2012/04/06 10:56:39 (permalink)
57Gregy


Before this thread gets locked for discussing religion and politics, I'd like to say I like the song.
Was that an accordion, harmonium or mellotron in it? Or some other instrument?

Me thinks.

A Mannborg or Mustel one I think if that makes any difference.

post edited by Jonbouy - 2012/04/06 11:00:54

"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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Re:We Can Work It Out 2012/04/06 10:57:46 (permalink)
mike_mccue



"How do idea get passed along? By making them trendy. And Lennon and his wife were geniuses at marketing slogans."


Yes, both of them were clever enough to realize that pop culture and media such as music and television was just as effective for sharing ideas as any other social "network" or more traditional culture.

They didn't come up with that idea. They just used it effectively.

I think it may be helpful to appreciate that a person like Mr. Lennon and his peers lived through the very time when information and media distribution went from being provincial to universal.

How many other entertainers have made as good a use of popular culture?

I'm not to distracted by hero worship... I'm not in to it either, but that's a criticism best directed at the worshipers and not the "hero".

I happen to think that Mr Lennon was indeed a prophetic voice for a significant portion of the populace.

all the best,
mike

That's an interpretation I can agree w/ - that he was seen as such. And timing helped, and no matter the motivations, some good came out of it. 

But seeing him as a "prophet" of some sort eludes me. The beatniks had planted all the seeds of the American counterculture before The Beatles even started playing music together. Kerouac, Ginsberg and their friends had spelled out the whole thing before the Beatles landed in America. And of course, they themselves were distilling what H. Miller, LF Celine and their contemporaries had themselves distilled from the existentialists who themselves were...

He was heard, that's the difference I guess. But it was all there - which is why I can't look at him a a prophet - a ferociously efficient pamphleteer, yes.
But as you say, the problem isn't w/ Lennon, but w/ the followers. And that's why I insisted on the fact that I do respect the man.





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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:We Can Work It Out 2012/04/06 10:58:01 (permalink)
I can do nifty dance step number to Silly Love Songs.

I don't care if it is sexist.




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Rain
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Re:We Can Work It Out 2012/04/06 11:03:57 (permalink)
bapu


Apparently the title of my fred is NOT working.




Next time try No Reply.


No wait, that wouldn't work either.

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Re:We Can Work It Out 2012/04/06 11:04:41 (permalink)
why does there have to be so much bollocks talked about the Beatles? Mysticism, politics, urban legends.
The fact is that they consitently made some great, timeless records that were extremely well produced/engineered.
Each new generation rediscovers and copies them and thank god for it.
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Re:We Can Work It Out 2012/04/06 11:06:35 (permalink)
I can do a nifty dance step number to Silly Love Songs Yellow Submarine.
 
I don't care if it is sexist.


#29
bapu
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Re:We Can Work It Out 2012/04/06 11:07:54 (permalink)
Rain


bapu


Apparently the title of my fred is NOT working.




Next time try No Reply.


No wait, that wouldn't work either.

I'll definitely try I'm A Loser
#30
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