Mystic38
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Re: We need Undo button back!
2013/10/07 02:24:26
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☄ Helpfulby Mistergreen 2013/10/07 12:21:21
By all means fill out a feature request if you wish, but leave out the disinformation.. in prior posts you state undo is three mouse clicks, its actually one. You stated that undoing 50 events is 150 mouse clicks, its actually three. In this post you assert that the Novation keyboard, Fantom and Motif are unable to properly start/stop Sonar. That is a completely untrue statement. A basic understanding of midi is required to make them work however. vladasyn You all making many valuable points and I appreciate your support! Using mouse to me is faster than using keyboard. I am fast with the mouse. And if Cakewalk arranged interface even more mouse- friendly, I would be even faster. With my 25 years of experience with MIDI, I know that I cannot rely on it to be consistent. Also- there is a way to control Transport via MIDI. If you saying, we do not need button for Undo because it can be done via MIDI from keyboard, then why do we still have Play/Record/Pause? Any MIDI keyboard has transport function and can control DAW… RIGHT? Actually- Wrong. I have Yamaha Motif, Roland Fantom and Novation Launchkey as my main controllers- all 3 have transport- none of them is able to make Sonar properly start and stop on demand. Not to mention “Record.” So why not use typing keyboard for recording and play/stop? Lets get rid of all buttons!
HPE-580T with i7-950, 8G, 1.5T, ATI6850, Win7/64, Motu 828 III Hybrid, Motu Midi Express, Sonar Platinum, Komplete 9, Ableton Live 9 & Push 2, Melodyne Editor and other stuff, KRK VXT8 Monitors Virus Ti2 Polar, Fantom G6, Yamaha S70XS, Novation Nova, Novation Nova II, Korg MS2000, Waldorf Micro Q, NI Maschine Studio, TC-VoiceLive Rack, 2012 Gibson Les Paul Standard, 2001 Gibson Les Paul DC, 1999 Fender Am Hardtail Strat, Fender Blues Jr, Orange TH30/PPC212, Tak EF360GF, one mic, no talent.
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Anderton
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Re: We need Undo button back!
2013/10/07 02:26:30
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Here's your solution: http://www.xtempozone.com/ You can assign any keyboard shortcuts to footswitches. I even use it with word processors for things like Bold and Italics. It works up to dozens of feet away from Sonar. Here's a review I wrote about it that even talks about programming Ctrl-Z into one of the footswitches so I must have been thinking of you! The price in the review is not accurate - it currently sells for $319. I realize that's not cheap, but it has far more uses than just being able to hit Ctrl-Z with your foot. As a guitar player, being able to do all kinds of hands-free control is extremely helpful.
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brconflict
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Re: We need Undo button back!
2013/10/07 11:42:33
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Undo would be nice, especially having one for mixing (i.e. fader, pan, EQ, and 3rd-party plug-in changes), but I would love to see a selective History instead. Much like what Photoshop has, but where you can remove a change in the history without having to undo changes after that change. If it has a dependency, it will warn you, or be grayed out as un-undoable. I know there's a program out there that can do this, but don't recall what it was.
Brian Sonar Platinum, Steinberg Wavelab Pro 9, MOTU 24CoreIO w/ low-slew OP-AMP mods and BLA external clock, True P8, Audient ASP008, API 512c, Chandler Germ500, Summit 2ba-221, GAP Pre-73, Peluso 22251, Peluso 2247LE, Mackie HR824, Polk Audio SRS-SDA 2.3tl w/upgraded Soniccraft crossovers and Goertz cables, powered by Pass-X350. All wiring Star-Quad XLR or Monster Cable. Power by Monster Power Signature AVS2000 voltage stabilizer and Signature Pro Power 5100 PowerCenter on a 20A isolation shielded circuit.
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John
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Re: We need Undo button back!
2013/10/07 11:44:17
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I wouldn't mind a custom button module for the control bar.
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deswind
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Re: We need Undo button back!
2013/10/07 23:04:49
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+1 for custom bar. I would like to put undo, cut, copy, etc. there. Nice to have choices for different styles of working. This would just be additional icing on the Cake!
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rodreb
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Re: We need Undo button back!
2013/10/07 23:18:55
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rodreb
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Re: We need Undo button back!
2013/10/07 23:24:57
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My right hand is basically always on the mouse, also. My keyboard is in a slide out drawer and is typically only used to name tracks or files. Now, it's really inconvenient to use for a bunch of keyboard shortcuts (that I usually can't remember and have to look up, anyhow).
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bitflipper
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Re: We need Undo button back!
2013/10/08 00:18:13
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All these different opinions on what's desirable versus what's "clutter" just emphasizes why toolbars should be customizable. It's the only way to keep everybody happy. For myself, I'd be happy doing away with the toolbar altogether to reclaim that screen real estate for another track or two. Oh yeah, and from the dead-horse department: Let's bring back the interleave and phase buttons while we're at it.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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scook
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Re: We need Undo button back!
2013/10/08 00:24:13
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bitflipper For myself, I'd be happy doing away with the toolbar altogether to reclaim that screen real estate for another track or two.
Keyboard shortcut "C"
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sharke
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Re: We need Undo button back!
2013/10/08 00:36:20
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bitflipper All these different opinions on what's desirable versus what's "clutter" just emphasizes why toolbars should be customizable. It's the only way to keep everybody happy. For myself, I'd be happy doing away with the toolbar altogether to reclaim that screen real estate for another track or two.
Just press "C" EDIT: Oh look, it appears I couldn't even be bothered to read the post above mine. My stupid eyes....
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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jm24
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Re: We need Undo button back!
2013/10/08 10:24:48
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Mr. Noel, Please take no personal offence. Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk] The buttons were taken out at the time (in X1) to redo the control bar and remove excess clutter. So the "excess" clutter was removed, what type of clutter was deemed worthy? Consequently we got the non-configurable command-ribbon because new users were overwhelmed with the possibilities represented by the non-customized out-of-the-box cluttered-with-all-possibilities button bars? -------------------- An assessment of clutter is based in knowledge of the work to be done. webster defines clutter as “to fill or cover with scattered or disordered things that impede movement or reduce effectiveness.” "clutter is anything that is disorganized" "clutter is anything you don’t need" "a state of disorder" Synonyms = untidiness, mess, disorder, confusion, litter, muddle, disarray, jumble, hotchpotch For me All of these definitions describe the X Series UI. Command-Ribbon items cannot be organized, are not needed, reduced effectiveness (especially the menus), and are distracting, extra-click menus everywhere,... ------------------- Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk] That said I think with touch screens its not an unreasonable request to want buttons for undo/redo ... But not for mouse users? ;) When watching the screen it is way easier to click a button than look away from the screen to be assured ones' fingers are on the correct keys. Way inefficient. ---------- Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk] At the time it was determined that most users do not use those buttons but use shortcut keys. This is the first I read about this consideration. ---------- You are saying, MOST of the, about 40,000, at the time, 7/8 Sonar users did not use the standard out-of-the-box-not-customized cluttered-with-all-possibilities button bars? Most meaning 60%? 80%? At 80% that means 20% DID use these buttons bars. About 8,000 users. I would have been INCLUDED in the group that did NOT use the standard out-of-the-box-not-customized cluttered-with-all-possibilities button bars. Because I do NOT use the out-of-the-box button bars for any program. I DO still use my 8.5.3 customized button bars spread across both screens, positioned where needed, so I do not have to look away from my work. The X series Command-Ribbon covers more space and provides less convienience. It is true clutter (clutter is anything you don’t need). The single row of customized button bars I use in 8.5.3, and the row of screen-context buttons use less space and provide more value. These button bars have links to what I ACTUALLY USE most often, as close to the work my eyes are looking at. Most Sonar key commands require looking at the keyboard. A distraction best. (I do use many standard windows key commands. With most of the users claiming to use key commands, the same assessment should have been made about the command-ribbon: Most users do NOT use the command-ribbon, and therefore it is "excess" clutter.. They learn key commands. Or, more probably, for most of us, we find the item on a menu. So why does the command-ribbon exist? ------------------------------------- Just reviewing THIS thread:: How many thousands of user hours, and user dollars spent, to make the program do what it usedto? Buy a Midi controller with undo button, map a midi key, buy foot controllers, use remote access pads, get an extra program,.... All this could be fixed with a couple of programming hours. ------------------------------------- Is the same to be understood for the removal of color customization? Somebody who could-not-be-refused figgered most users did not use colors? So customization was not needed? And it has only taken nearly 4 years of complaining to get some bit of user color preferences? Don't get me started. ========== Bugs, comments & suggestions: We expect this application to not always perform as described. This is by design. There are no mistakes to be found in our software code, only undefined behaviors, and undocumented results. Enjoy the process of discovery. Please inform us of any unique functions you encounter that we may include them in the list of known features.
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John
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Re: We need Undo button back!
2013/10/08 10:59:34
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bitflipper All these different opinions on what's desirable versus what's "clutter" just emphasizes why toolbars should be customizable. It's the only way to keep everybody happy. For myself, I'd be happy doing away with the toolbar altogether to reclaim that screen real estate for another track or two. Oh yeah, and from the dead-horse department: Let's bring back the interleave and phase buttons while we're at it.
Bit those buttons are still there but in the Track Inspector where they belong.
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Mystic38
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Re: We need Undo button back!
2013/10/08 11:02:14
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I have ran teams of hardware and software developers to produce major communications programs and it is pretty obvious from your post that you have absolutely no idea about software development. As such, I really don't think you should be quoting man-hours to a CTO of a company that produces a significantly sized software program..I mean.. really?..lol You are clearly in rant mode, but the fact is that neither Sonar developments, nor the planet, will revolve around you no matter how long you persist with this thread. There have been several attempts by many in this thread to help you use what tools Sonar has already provided to give you a faster, more economical method of rapid undo than you currently use.. yet you ignore them. The bottom line is that having a midi keybind to "undo" can be fixed by you in 30 secs flat by using the tools already provided by Sonar.. yet instead you spread disinformation and untruths about both Sonar and a number of synth & keyboard controllers. As for a feature request, I think a small box of 6 customizable buttons is not a bad idea but any ongoing comments that you cannot do what you want (one click undo) in Sonar is total BS.
HPE-580T with i7-950, 8G, 1.5T, ATI6850, Win7/64, Motu 828 III Hybrid, Motu Midi Express, Sonar Platinum, Komplete 9, Ableton Live 9 & Push 2, Melodyne Editor and other stuff, KRK VXT8 Monitors Virus Ti2 Polar, Fantom G6, Yamaha S70XS, Novation Nova, Novation Nova II, Korg MS2000, Waldorf Micro Q, NI Maschine Studio, TC-VoiceLive Rack, 2012 Gibson Les Paul Standard, 2001 Gibson Les Paul DC, 1999 Fender Am Hardtail Strat, Fender Blues Jr, Orange TH30/PPC212, Tak EF360GF, one mic, no talent.
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Loptec
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Re: We need Undo button back!
2013/10/08 15:29:05
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Mystic38 I have ran teams of hardware and software developers to produce major communications programs and it is pretty obvious from your post that you have absolutely no idea about software development. As such, I really don't think you should be quoting man-hours to a CTO of a company that produces a significantly sized software program..I mean.. really?..lol You are clearly in rant mode, but the fact is that neither Sonar developments, nor the planet, will revolve around you no matter how long you persist with this thread. There have been several attempts by many in this thread to help you use what tools Sonar has already provided to give you a faster, more economical method of rapid undo than you currently use.. yet you ignore them. The bottom line is that having a midi keybind to "undo" can be fixed by you in 30 secs flat by using the tools already provided by Sonar.. yet instead you spread disinformation and untruths about both Sonar and a number of synth & keyboard controllers. As for a feature request, I think a small box of 6 customizable buttons is not a bad idea but any ongoing comments that you cannot do what you want (one click undo) in Sonar is total BS.
+1
SAMUEL LIDSTRÖM
DAW: Sonar Platinum (64bit) with Melodyne Studio - Controllers: Roland VS-700C, Cakewalk A-500 Pro, Yamaha P90Desktop Audio Interface: RME HDSPe RayDAT - Laptop Audio Interface: RME Babyface Pro
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brconflict
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Re: We need Undo button back!
2013/10/08 16:00:59
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mudgel If you tie yourself to a mouse then you're not really interested in speeding up your workflow. You really just wanting to hang onto the way you've always done it.
To not adapt your tools to better serve your needs to me sounds unreasonable.
Piano / synth keyboard with a few key combinations and your hands don't have to leave the keyboard to grab hold of a mouse.
Learn keyboard shortcuts (qwerty) again your hand doesn't have to leave the keyboard. It's just so much faster.
Your daw is not just a tool but your recording, mixing, arranging, mastering instrument, why not learn to play it as well as the musical instrument of your choice.
And if you want a feature that's currently not implemented then put In a feature request. Also read the manual. All the info on setting key bindings, both qwerty and MIDI keyboard are covered in quite some detail.
I think the mouse is still the most accurate way to tweak faders, knobs, and plug-ins. Even more than a controller, and I've tried both.
Brian Sonar Platinum, Steinberg Wavelab Pro 9, MOTU 24CoreIO w/ low-slew OP-AMP mods and BLA external clock, True P8, Audient ASP008, API 512c, Chandler Germ500, Summit 2ba-221, GAP Pre-73, Peluso 22251, Peluso 2247LE, Mackie HR824, Polk Audio SRS-SDA 2.3tl w/upgraded Soniccraft crossovers and Goertz cables, powered by Pass-X350. All wiring Star-Quad XLR or Monster Cable. Power by Monster Power Signature AVS2000 voltage stabilizer and Signature Pro Power 5100 PowerCenter on a 20A isolation shielded circuit.
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Anderton
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Re: We need Undo button back!
2013/10/08 17:03:32
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John
bitflipper All these different opinions on what's desirable versus what's "clutter" just emphasizes why toolbars should be customizable. It's the only way to keep everybody happy. For myself, I'd be happy doing away with the toolbar altogether to reclaim that screen real estate for another track or two. Oh yeah, and from the dead-horse department: Let's bring back the interleave and phase buttons while we're at it.
Bit those buttons are still there but in the Track Inspector where they belong.
And in the Console view. I miss having them in track view sometimes, but the Cake giveth and the Cake taketh away...I hit the screenset for Console and make my changes.
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SteveStrummerUK
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stevec
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Re: We need Undo button back!
2013/10/08 17:35:15
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I remember the scrollable Control Bar idea... it's a nice one and is definitely preferable over adding/removing modules (yuck). Granted, on an expanded dual screen setup it's not a big deal, but it should be able to better accommodate a single laptop. But I still want a custom Control Bar module of my very own.
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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