As someone mentioned previously the model that MS uses for it's MSDN development tools can be subscription based which is what I have at my 'day gig'. It also doesn't require that I load up the latest version of the primary tool; if I'm happy with VS2010 I don't have to do an upgrade. They also provide me with the opportunity to preview a new version (forget what they call it something like "Public Preview") before the product gets RTM. This is all fine and good but I don't have to pay for any of this, my employer does so that yearly fee doesn't bother me.
 
On the other hand, MS also provides a 'standalone' licence purchase. Pay the fee and install the product. I purchase this for the work I do seperate from my employer. This works for me because I can analyse what the new product offers before spending any money. Of course the subscription I have at work helps me analyse what I want.
 
The thing about my relationship with MS is I honestly feel I have one. The preview editions allow me to test them out and provide input back to the company on an ongoing basis. As the name MSDN (MS Developers Network) implies it is a network of products and support forums that MS supports with not only their own personnel but contributors who can join the ranks MVPs that also support the network of users.
 
I'm uncertain if Cakewalk could provide that level of product, support and interaction based on their current fee structure nor am I convinced that a subscription model would necessarily help the issue. A subscription model does assist a company when they're forecasting revenue against resources though and that might be a good thing.
 
To sum up, I don't think this is a zero sum game. If Cakewalk could provide both subscription and single purchase models I think it could help everyone. In the end I think all of us want Cakewalk a profitable company...but we don't want to end up in poor house either.
 
Regards,

Anderton
 
 
If it's driven by marketing to maintain a constant cash flow, that's different than if it's driven by a software company to create happier users by getting updates into their hands sooner, and without them having to lay out a big bunch of cash all at once.
 
 

I bought what I have and don't own it anyway so I guess if I have to pay them a little every month so I don't have to wait a year for them to fix their stuff...sheesh...well something needs to change, no doubt about that.

Glyn Barnes
I must admit to being tempted by the Adobe subscription services. I use Lightroom but it would be nice to have access to Photoshop as well without a big up front payment, The other side of me says I wnat to own not rent. My jury is still very much out.
 
 

Hi Glyn
 
I find myself in much the same situation as you.
 
I absolutely love Lightroom 5 - the new and improved Lens Correction module was worth the price alone for me. I use it almost exclusively for developing my RAW files now.
 
For further image manipulation, and although I'm extremely tempted to pull the trigger, I can't really justify the cost of the full version of Photoshop, so my compromise has been to go with Photoshop Elements. I just upgraded to version 11, which has the latest version (albeit a slightly stripped-down version) of Adobe Camera RAW. PSE 11 also has the quite excellent new and improved Refine Edge feature, which again for me, was worth the price of admission on its own.
 
So for me, having Elements and Lightroom, plus the superb Canon Digital Photo Profession RAW editor that came with my EOS, I have 99% of my needs covered.
 
I just thought I'd mention it to you, as in my honest opinion, Elements is an incredibly powerful tool for the money.
 
 

The subscription model was dreamed up by some marketing wonks as a way to assure an annuity income that will make stockholders happy and support share prices through more reliable revenue forecasts.
 
It certainly wasn't a response to any user demands. Some people do accept it, but I've never heard anyone say they'd prefer it over a one-time purchase and optional paid upgrades. I would never buy a software subscription, even though as a software vendor I actually offer them myself.
 
The subscription model is a good fit for software that requires frequent updates and intensive customer support/training. My own company works this way. We don't call it a subscription, we call it a maintenance contract. It's entirely voluntary and the software won't stop working if you don't buy a contract. But we will charge you an hourly rate if you need help, upgrades will cost extra, and technical services are pay-as-you-go.
 
95% of my customers buy a maintenance contract. No coercion needed.
 
Ours is a big, deep application. We service an industry with high turnover rates, so we're continually gaining new inexperienced users who have how-to questions. Most of our users are non-technical. Many sites have no IT staff, nor database or network administrators. Most sites require extensive report customization. All this means that the software itself is only part of the product, the rest is a substantial service component, which rightfully deserves ongoing payment.
 
But even though I sell subscriptions I cannot imagine such a model being applied to music software. The most complex application you have is your DAW. But you don't expect Cakewalk to come to your studio and set it up for you and teach you how to use it. You wouldn't expect them to customize it for you, provide 24-hour emergency bug fixes, manually repair a broken project file for you or calibrate your subwoofer.
 
The question is: would you pay for that service, knowing that it would be very expensive? And would you stay with that vendor if such payment was mandatory?
 
I have a real problem with mandatory subscriptions or heavy-handed coercion. When my Waves plugins stopped working (claiming I had no license) I wanted to ask the company why their products were failing. If the wheels had fallen off my new car, I'd be entitled to an explanation from the manufacturer. But I could neither call nor even email Waves, because I hadn't bought the WUP. 
 

Though I can see some advantage, I don't like the idea. Like many here, I have a number of different music SW products and I don't upgrade every one every year, and I don't want to be penalized significantly for skipping one or more releases. And even if I do upgrade almost every year, I want the ability to decide when, based on the availability of funds or time or whatever.
 
 
But the upside to a subscription model I see is not more frequent updates, but a different focus: if Cakewalk (or whoever) is not tied into adding new bells and whistles to attract upgraders, perhaps they can focus on improved core functionality instead. 
 
Though some would argue they can/should do this now, the reality is many people would not pay to upgrade for essentially bug fixes and some incremental changes (based on a longer term vision of where the SW is going). Instead most people will (understandably) whine that they should get those things for free, ignoring the business reality that the programmers rolling out those fixes have to get paid somehow.
 
The subscription model, if implemented as a resource allocation tool rather than a profit tool (he said naively and optimistically ) addresses this. But if it works, it's only because it's essentially the same as saying, "I'm going to continually pay for what I essentially already have and what I might get sometime in the future".
 
 
But in the real world, there's more incentive to both fix and improve things if they have to entice us to part with our money with a new version every year. 

Mystic38
Steve & Glyn,
 
have you tried Lightroom + paint shop pro?..
 
Since I adopted LR I found that 90-95% of my work is within that environment, and so for the nasty lil bits that you just have to sort out I can launch PSP from within LR, make the detail edits, and return to LR..  edit history is maintained correctly in LR so its a homogeneous solution to me... and bang/$ is off the charts..don't let the cost fool you into thinking its not much of a program.
 
Ian

Hi Ian, thanks for the great info.
 
I haven't tried Paint Shop Pro, it's interesting to learn how well it integrates with LR though.
 
I'll give the Trial version a go on the basis of your recommendation!
 
Do you know if it contains a Corel equivalent (or similar) to Photoshop's Refine Edge feature? As I mentioned before, LR's wonderful Lens Correction module (which I find indispensable as I photograph a lot of architecture) and PSE's Refine Edge are two features I use a lot.
 
I'm currently shooting and creating the final images for a charity calendar, which involves using photos of peoples' heads and shoulders and using them in various mocked-up 'humorous' settings. Being able to isolate the heads accurately from the background, especially around their hair, has been a breeze with Refine Edge.
 
================
 
Edit to add:
 
@Ian - I just pulled the trigger on Paintshop Pro X5 Ultimate - the included Nik Color Efex Pro 3.0 photographic filters pack sold it to me before I even downloaded the trial LOL
 
It was only £50 on Amazon for a boxed copy, can't complain at that for excellent value.
 
Thanks again for the heads-up 
 
 
@Craig - Sorry for the derailment of your (very interesting) thread 
================

I use software from 4 business models.  Freeware (with pop-up ads), Purchased and owned (Sonar, Audition, Word, Excel, etc.), Purchased but not supported without a yearly paid service plan, and Subscription (Adobe Muse).
 
My least favorite is the freeware.  My subscription software is updated very regularly and includes new features and bug fixes as they are developed.  We all know the experience with the Cakewalk model where you pay and may or may not get regular updates.  On my software that offers the service plan, they never release bug fixes after a release (we have never needed one as it is very stable) but a service agreement is required if you need technical support.
 
I guess I would be OK with a subscription if Cake stayed on top of the updates as they are developed AND MY SOFTWARE WOULD CONTINUE TO WORK beyond my contract period if I discontinued.

bitman
No, No & no no no!

 
Yes.

I believe that this is a trend we will see more and more of...not actually owning anything anymore.
 
The more we are tied to subscription services and online installers under the guise of 'security and convenience', the more removed we are from having any real control over the products we supposedly own.
 
This is one of the highest profit area for all retailers of any kind. Consider the 'extended warranty' concept. For the very few who actually get to take advantage of it before the warranty period expires ( which is very carefully thought out by the retailer ) its a bargain...for most everyone else, its a last minute up sell that seldom gets redeemed.  ( Car under carriage coating anyone?? )
 
Most really bad concepts start out this way with what seem to be perfectly sensible reasons..until the hangover comes.
 
Think of all the best purchases you have ever made in your studio, the ones that really last and that you depend on. I'll be willing to bet the ones you still use or still have value will be hardware...
 
...because, old or new, you in fact 'own it' out right...weather your internet connection is working or not.

No. Just no. People need to wake up if they really think this will benefit the consumer rather than the vendor.

DeeringAmps
Am I the only one that feels that is exactly the business "model" we are in with Cake?
I pay my $99 or whatever every year, and as Scott said; "For that entire year you get any new versions/updates. If you stop paying, your software still works, forever"
What's the problem???
 
Tom

I was thinking the same thing but I would rather pay one fee and get all te PC modues and everything else. Also, I do not have Reaper but I like the way that they tell you how many updates/upgrades you are paying for... and it seems that they do not hold back on updates and/or tweaks. It seems like a subscription model under a different name but one where you don't have to worry about paying some monthly fee or your softare stops working. The subscription model has lost me to one company already: MasterWriter, it is good software but when it comes to paying every month for it... I end up using a spiral notebook (and do just fine).
I agree with Mike's first post. Iit isn't exactly what he said but the whole thing reminds me of the "so called" affordable Care Act... or insurance in general when someone starts setting mandates... I end up paying for things I don't want, will never use, or need in any way. I don't like that and I certainly do not want it in something I enjoy doing. Mike, I am not saying you said that... but that is what I thought of when I read your post.
 
I think if a company like Cakewalk wants to have a steady stream of money coming in they could switch to $8.00 (OK, $10.00) a month and include everything that comes along (including PC modules/VSTs), and keep it coming. Every tweak, bug fix, new feature... (maybe). From an accounting POV they would have to be prepared to not have the large influx of cash they are used to getting when they release a major upgrade.
 
I think the best business model, for the end user, is what Reaper offers. Pay a defined ammount and get a defined number of updates through a pre-defined upgrade upgrade number.
I prefer to own my software and I prefer NOT to have to purchase things I do not want, though Sonar already includes things I don't use but being a upgrade that is $100.00 or so annually or bi-annually I tend think of it as a total package. HOWEVER if I were paying monthly I would be looking at it less as a package and more as a collection of components and updates. I don't think I could help but compare the monthly fee to whatever updates, fixes, and goodies I am getting and how often I get them and how useful they are to me. Paying a monthly fee and getting things month after month one does not need or want... well, and that is going to apply to someone no matter how you slice it. One is going to be thrilled with what they get and someone else is going to be like.. pfffft.
It seems to me that a company like Cake would be asking for more complaintsthan they now have if they went to a monthly subscription fee. Some would leave Sonar on principle, just because they would not like feeling as if they don't own what they are paying for. I cannot imagine any new customers coming in because they have a subscription plan. I think it is a gamble but that is just my opinion and it could be wrong.
 
One thing is certain, if this is the wave of the future we wont have much to do with it one way or the other. Someone at Roland will decide on whatever business model they believe will generate the most income and that will be that (or I could be wrong, but I doubt it). Then... it will be left to the Bakers at Cakewalk to make sure whatever business model is decided upon... will be a good deal for the end user and customers will both buy it and like it. I don't know about big business but perhaps someone can step up and tell the bean counters, "WOAH... that wont work" or "Yes, but..."
 
If it were my decision I would shamelessly copy the business model of Reaper. Then again... constantly releasing "fixes" and small upgrades could cause constant problems for some users who would likely be very vocal.
Change is always hard and Cakewalk has been through enough major change since the release of the X series. Another major change might d more harm than good. There are a lot of different angles you can look at this from... and there is ALWAYS the "law of unintended consequenses". After considering everything I would wait and I would tread lightly. I think there may be a blues tune in here somewhere.
 
At least we aren't discussing iSonar.  
 
Julien

With the potential for "new features" in upgrades nearly exhausted AND the market probably saturated, I can't imagine how DAW developers can stay in business any other way. I am strictly referring to further debugging.
 
Keep new sales as is but updates, by subscription only. That might make everyone happy.  Hopefully that would end the necessity of filler "new features" that we all must endure  just in the hope of getting rid of bugs. But in version after version we all know that they zap a few old bugs and introduce dozens of new ones with new "features" - always and without fail. For the company that is a convenient sales model - until the people finally figure the game it out. From there - the only place to go is cheaper because you have killed off your core base. Well Duh!
 
For any user, it's a circular argument. I cannot understand why people haven't already figured that out.
 
I have been pleading for them to offer a subscription for years. Maybe they could develop this stuff to it's true potential.

Im living in a place where my desktop is not connected to internet ( no internet access ). Can i still subscribe with this set up?

phrygiann
Im living in a place where my desktop is not connected to internet ( no internet access ). Can i still subscribe with this set up?

I'm not sure but you may be able to download the appropriate codes or whatever to unlock the program then transfer them over on a USB key. I think there are some subscription based services that actually require you to be on the internet while working though which would suck for resource intensive things like audio where internet can screw things up.

Mystic38
Steve & Glyn,
 
have you tried Lightroom + paint shop pro?..
 
Since I adopted LR I found that 90-95% of my work is within that environment, and so for the nasty lil bits that you just have to sort out I can launch PSP from within LR, make the detail edits, and return to LR..  edit history is maintained correctly in LR so its a homogeneous solution to me... and bang/$ is off the charts..don't let the cost fool you into thinking its not much of a program.
 
Ian
 

Thanks for reminding me I have a Paintshop Pro license somewhere, not that up to date, X I think. I stopped useing it because some of the  background programs were conflicting with Sonar. Now I have a dedicated DAW and the photo software is on a different box that should not be an issue. Its certainly worth investigating the integration and upgrade options. I liked the program and features.