Helpful ReplyWhat DAW are you going to now?

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emwhy
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Re: What DAW are you going to now? 2018/02/21 21:08:59 (permalink)
I spent a good chunk of time with both Samplitude and Studio One as demos in December. They're both excellent programs. I did see a little more CPU usage in them compared to SONAR, especially Samplitude. That's important to me when doing big projects and soft synths. I need to be able to play in a low latency environment. I still so really like SONAR and we will continue using it at work as long as we can, but corporate is forcing Win 10 on us later this year and that adds the risk of an update crippling the program which would be a disaster for us being a broadcast facility. We are leaning towards Reaper here for various reasons, CPU usage, recognizing DX plug-ins, and integration of Adobe Audition. But one of the main ones is I've been able to customize it to work and look like SONAR which would mean a very short learning curve for the other producers here....a lot of work for me to get to that point and train them, but I get paid for that. So yes it can be considered a "love in", but for me there was no other program out there that allowed for this. Studio One doesn't support DX the way we need it, Samplitude does but it's quirky and quite frankly that program is overkill for our needs. 
 
 
#31
clintmartin
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Re: What DAW are you going to now? 2018/02/21 23:25:50 (permalink)
I tried Reaper for a few days, but I was getting terrible latency with EZ Drummer 2 and couldn't figure it out. The next day I couldn't get EZD2 to play at all. I don't think it likes my Presonus VSL44. I don't blame Reaper for any of this, but I have other options that work now...so I'll keep using them.
I believe I'll upgrade to Waveform 9 today. Tracktion is fun to use and simple.

Cakewalk, Harrison Mixbus 4, Waveform 9, ADK intel i7 2600 3.40 ghz, 8gb Ram, Win 7, Presonus Audiobox 44VSL. 
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https://itunes.apple.com/...lint-martin/1010966023
https://open.spotify.com/artist/4x4TBz32i56bTJkgu7b4tN
 
 
 
#32
abacab
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Re: What DAW are you going to now? 2018/02/22 00:10:48 (permalink)
clintmartin
 
I believe I'll upgrade to Waveform 9 today. Tracktion is fun to use and simple.




I just upgraded to Waveform 9 for $50 and it is a nice refresh. The best new features that I can see are the chord track and the new multi-sampler. 
 
An integrated sampler for sample manipulation, and not just playback of sample libraries is something that many mainstream DAWs lack.   So this feature is sure to appeal to many, and is a frequent feature request. 
Multi Sampler is a general purpose sampler instrument. While it looks simple and is easy to learn,
it has a deep and interesting feature set.

Drag in sounds from Audio clips, the Browser or your file system. Map zones to the keyboard,
record directly to the sampler, and create slices using beat detection. Modify each sound layer with
trimming, looping, pitch, panning, reversing, filter, and comprehensive envelopes, and LFOs. You
can also choose one-shot triggering and trigger different samples based velocity. Also, you can load
SoundFont files by drag and drop.

Use the right side scratchpad to collect files that you need to edit, slice or just want to keep on hand
to use later

 
Tracktion has added a chord track that your MIDI generator tracks can now follow.  The chord track is also handy to have for reference if you are entering chords by hand on the editor or playing them in, as a reminder where the chord changes are.  The MIDI features now have a more 'finished' feel to them, where in the first version seemed a bit more of a work in progress.
 
I have used Waveform as a secondary DAW since it was first released last year.  Before the Cakewalk news.  I was sold on the MIDI creativity tools and chord support. 
 
I wasn't looking to replace Sonar, just for something to enhance musical creativity and songwriting.  It is really surprising what a full featured DAW program it is!  You could start and finish something in it if you really wanted to, but my plan was to use it as a MIDI sequencer, then export tracks back to my main DAW (which is looking more and more like Studio One these days).
 
I agree with the opinion that if you are going to have several DAWs, they should not all look and feel alike.  Take advantage of the differences, and enjoy what these differences can being to the creative process. 

DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ... 
#33
mcmd
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Re: What DAW are you going to now? 2018/02/22 00:25:18 (permalink)
Cubase pro 9.5 and Studio One 3.
 
I like them both. I seem to be using Cubase more right now. I don't do too much midi, mainly guitar and virtual drums.
#34
clintmartin
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Re: What DAW are you going to now? 2018/02/22 03:00:44 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jude77 2018/02/23 22:26:27
I'm making some progress with Reaper. You have to arm the EZD2 track to reduce latency...odd.
Is there a way to zoom project to screen?...or zoom all tracks vertical. I use that all the time, but haven't found it yet. With the Waveform upgrade being $52.50 it just makes sense to give Reaper a proper try for $60.

Cakewalk, Harrison Mixbus 4, Waveform 9, ADK intel i7 2600 3.40 ghz, 8gb Ram, Win 7, Presonus Audiobox 44VSL. 
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https://open.spotify.com/artist/4x4TBz32i56bTJkgu7b4tN
 
 
 
#35
abacab
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Re: What DAW are you going to now? 2018/02/22 03:14:56 (permalink)
clintmartin
I'm making some progress with Reaper. You have to arm the EZD2 track to reduce latency...odd.
Is there a way to zoom project to screen?...or zoom all tracks vertical. I use that all the time, but haven't found it yet. With the Waveform upgrade being $52.50 it just makes sense to give Reaper a proper try for $60.




If you are still looking for a main DAW, I would stick to a choice between Reaper, Studio One, Cubase, Pro Tools, Logic, etc.
 
But if you are looking for creative toys in a secondary DAW, then Waveform, Ableton Live, Reason, FL Studio, Bitwig, etc., may be good options...
 
Waveform 9 and Ableton Live 10 are my toys. 
 
Reaper could be a good choice.  I have been testing it for a while, and it is a very versatile and very stable host.  If you put in the time to learn and customize it to fit your needs, I am sure you will be rewarded.  They seem to have a very enthusiastic community, and I like the business philosophy of the lead developer, and co-founder.

DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ... 
#36
InstrEd
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Re: What DAW are you going to now? 2018/02/22 04:01:56 (permalink)
There sure are plenty of choices. Tracktion Waveform, MixcraftPro 8, Presonus Studio One 3,
Steinberg Cubase 9.5, MOTU DP9.5, Magix Samplitude, Cockos Reaper, etc..........
Everyone's workflow is different. Everyone has to demo them and choose the one that fits. Or maybe it like
Harry Potter and the DAW chooses you :)
 
 
 

Instred
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#37
abacab
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Re: What DAW are you going to now? 2018/02/22 04:57:31 (permalink)
I don't think there is one size fits all.  Some people need integrated samplers in their tracks.  Some need professional scoring tools for classical music.  Some need hardware emulations of recording consoles.  Some need exceptional MIDI support for their external instruments.  The list goes on...
 
Hard to find one tool that does it all, and does it well, is stable, and bug free.  Oh, and does 100+ tracks without any latency or dropouts...

DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ... 
#38
cool
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Re: What DAW are you going to now? 2018/02/22 12:13:20 (permalink)
Reaper. Now completely. It is not perfect externally, but it is ideal in functional. Additionally, customization allowed me to "sculpt" Sonar from it, with a close workflow.
The latest news about the addition of ARA2 and the unofficial support of the CWP project files are very encouraging. I made the right choice.

English is not my native language. Apologize for any mistakes in the text.
#39
BobF
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Re: What DAW are you going to now? 2018/02/22 17:05:57 (permalink)
clintmartin
I'm making some progress with Reaper. You have to arm the EZD2 track to reduce latency...odd.
Is there a way to zoom project to screen?...or zoom all tracks vertical. I use that all the time, but haven't found it yet. With the Waveform upgrade being $52.50 it just makes sense to give Reaper a proper try for $60.




The chord track feature made me curious enough to download the WF demo.  I've used T6 in some collabs, and it's not a bad DAW at all
 
Time to start the Waveform demo and see what the fuss is about.  :)
 

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#40
abacab
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Re: What DAW are you going to now? 2018/02/22 18:56:42 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2018/02/22 19:01:08
BobF
 
The chord track feature made me curious enough to download the WF demo.  I've used T6 in some collabs, and it's not a bad DAW at all
 
Time to start the Waveform demo and see what the fuss is about.  :)
 



The chord track feature in Waveform appears to be limited to the pattern generator tracks.  They will follow the chord track. Here is a good overview of what you can do with the MIDI pattern and chord generator in Waveform.  So having a chord track that this can follow is a big improvement!  Very powerful feature for sketching out a chord progression and throwing in some MIDI chord tracks and a MIDI bassline.  It also has an arpeggiator pattern generator.
 
Tracktion Waveform Pattern Generator Tutorial

 
In Cubase, the chord track can be referenced by any MIDI track to follow chord events. From the Cubase Elements 9 manual:
Chord events are representations of chords that control or transpose playback on MIDI and instrument tracks.

Chord events alter the pitches of MIDI notes if their track is set up to follow the chord track.

 
The Waveform chord and pattern generator got me interested last year.  I did the W8 demo, as well as the Cubase Elements 9 demo.  I really liked the chord track in Cubase, but the DAW overall was not as intuitive.  Both were $99, and so I opted for Waveform.  But I did miss the chord track thingy in Cubase Elements, and so have considered maybe getting that too.
 
But it looks like the chord track that Tracktion just added to W9 has completed the pattern feature.  The pattern generator in W8 still seemed like a work in progress, without the ability to sync all the generated chord progressions in each of their tracks.  All they were able to do was follow the global track (project key).  So this is much better, you can now tell track by track which ones to follow the chord track.  Change the chord track, insert a change, and the patterns in the following tracks line up.
 
Waveform may not be for everyone.  But it is fun and intuitive, and I like it. 
 
From the Tracktion website:
Waveform is a rapidly evolving application specifically designed for the needs of modern music producers. Specializing in creative and inspirational workflows and avoiding features not explicitly needed allow the app to remain surprisingly fun and intuitive. While other apps try to appeal to broad user groups, for example film score, live sound, performance – we are laser focused on music production.


DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ... 
#41
lawajava
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Re: What DAW are you going to now? 2018/02/22 21:35:24 (permalink)
I was Sonar only until the announcement.

After considerations I went with Cubase Pro 9.5. Spent a modest amount of time learning it. Really like it a lot. Very stable and I appreciate its features.

However, I kept noticing people over and over again had super fan boy impressions of Studio One 3.5, and when the super low cross grade offer was announced I grabbed that as well. I then also went through (and continue to go through) the learning curve.

I am presently at this mindset:

1. I have discovered it's super easy to move whole songs or just tracks from one DAW to another.

2. I likely will now start most of my new songs in Cubase. I think the Chord features are top notch and will help me be extra creative. I also think the Sampler track is way cool, but that's another subject.

3. I expect once I've got my chord structure for the whole song in a good place in Cubase I'll transfer the song to Studio One for audio and FX/mixing and other VST instrument embellishments. So Studio One will be by main DAW. As it is very well thought out.

4. If I want to use any of my outboard sound modules or sounds, I'll mix down to a single track and bring it into Sonar. Everything is wired up for my external sound modules there. If I do use any, then I can just transfer the audio and midi back to Studio One for those tracks. I won't typically have that need, but I have that ready as needed. Studio One doesn't talk with the external stuff as I had set up with Sonar. Cubase could, but it's a lot of hassle to reset all that up when it works presently just fine in Sonar.

The question at the start is what did you move to? I think I moved to Cubase, Studio One, and in a pinch Sonar.
They all work fine together to move tracks for their strong suits. I'll arrange and mix in Studio One.

Two internal 2TB SSDs laptop stuffed with Larry's deals and awesome tools. Studio One is the cat's meow as a DAW now that I've migrated off of Sonar. Using BandLab Cakewalk just to grab old files when migrating songs.
#42
sharke
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Re: What DAW are you going to now? 2018/02/22 22:20:03 (permalink)
It's been a real eye opener for me to have Reaper on one screen and Sonar on the other and go back and forth between them in the course of transferring a huge project across. 118 tracks and I'm now at the stage of doing the automation. I have to be brutally honest - so far, I haven't found one single thing that I prefer in Sonar. And with all of the tracks loaded up and their FX in place, they're like two different DAW's. When I move focus to Sonar, there's a good 2 second delay before it's responsive, and oftentimes when I hit play I will get the spinning mouse pointer followed by the audio engine shutting down. When I move focus over to Reaper, it's responsive immediately and plays without a hitch every time. Sonar is starting to feel very clunky in comparison. Maybe you only really notice these differences in large projects, but for me it's like night and day. 
 
My biggest fear about transferring this project was the automation. I have a lot of sound design going on via the automation of effects like delay, filters and reverbs, and many of the tracks have between 5-10 lanes of automation. Drawing automation envelopes in Sonar is really troublesome. There are bugs and annoyances galore. Lots of unexpected behavior and fiddliness. Even though I did a lot of it, I was never fully happy about doing it. In preparation for doing it in Reaper, I watched one online video and read a couple of forum posts to answer further questions, and now I'm breezing through it. I use a lot of curves and stepped automation in my projects and doing it in Reaper is such a breeze by comparison, once you've learned a couple of keyboard modifiers (and now I find that tool HUD in Sonar a PITA!) Here's a snatch of some of the automation I've been tearing through with Reaper, just one part of one track (as you can see I have my work cut out). It's been an absolute joy so far, and I could never say that about drawing automation in Sonar. 
 

 
I don't know, everything just seems so much more accurate and precise in Reaper. Things work exactly how I'd expect them to. I think part of Sonar's problem was that it was a frustrating uphill slog for new users because of the way it's designed. I also think automation looks a hell of a lot nicer in Reaper than it does in Sonar, and the whole business of managing multiple automation lanes is so much more logical and convenient. Even selecting the parameters for automation - no more trawling back and forth through endless scrolling menus with the cursor keys looking for one parameter out of hundreds. With Reaper you get a nice big window listing them all and you simply check the ones you want. I can select every parameter I want to automate in one go and it gives me the lanes. I can choose which ones to show or hide from this screen, and I can size them all independently of each other.
 

 
And no more accidentally hitting the automation lane button and having a "default" volume automation tied to my fader that I have to delete - god how many times do I do that in Sonar, just in the course of one session, lol. So yeah, Reaper isn't the most modern looking DAW by default, but by golly it's designed so well and it just works. I love it. Honestly I am blown away by this software and how much it cost me. 
 
 

James
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#43
clintmartin
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Re: What DAW are you going to now? 2018/02/23 03:28:50 (permalink)
Reaper looks impressive. I went ahead and Upgraded to Waveform 9 after a fun time recording a song in Waveform 8. It does all I need, but Reaper is a program i'll look into later when I have a desire to learn a new DAW.

Cakewalk, Harrison Mixbus 4, Waveform 9, ADK intel i7 2600 3.40 ghz, 8gb Ram, Win 7, Presonus Audiobox 44VSL. 
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#44
emwhy
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Re: What DAW are you going to now? 2018/02/23 12:24:27 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jude77 2018/02/24 16:00:34
Learning Reaper requires a LOT of desire!
#45
Mesh
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Re: What DAW are you going to now? 2018/02/23 13:02:18 (permalink)
Now, it looks like Sonar might be back in the race and those of us that have been sitting tight with it, will have to keep sitting tight (until further notice).

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#46
Canopus
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Re: What DAW are you going to now? 2018/02/23 13:47:00 (permalink)
And I think a lot of people that have spent quite some money lately on other DAWs (me included, with both Studio One 3 Professional and Cubase Pro 9.5 recently purchased) would be more than happy to return. The newly saved DAW missionaries exempted, of course.
#47
sharke
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Re: What DAW are you going to now? 2018/02/23 13:47:04 (permalink)
emwhy
Learning Reaper requires a LOT of desire!


It really doesn't. After watching a few videos on YouTube I'm almost as fluent with it as I was in Sonar.

James
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#48
the_user_formally_known_as_glennbo
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Re: What DAW are you going to now? 2018/02/23 18:46:07 (permalink)
sharke
emwhy
Learning Reaper requires a LOT of desire!


It really doesn't. After watching a few videos on YouTube I'm almost as fluent with it as I was in Sonar.



The hardest thing to learn with Reaper is that you do NOT have to perform step "A" before performing step "B", and perform both steps "A" and "B" before proceeding to step "C".
 
Reaper is not procedural and linear like Sonar. It's more like Object Oriented Programming where you can start at "C" if you want to, and either later or never do "A" and "B".  I didn't really get what "Tool-less" mouse interface meant until I had been using it for a while and then loaded up Sonar one day to access an older project.

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http://soundclick.com/glennbo
 
#49
clintmartin
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Re: What DAW are you going to now? 2018/02/23 22:49:05 (permalink)
Great news about Sonar! I had Mixbus and Tracktion before Cakewalk tanked, so I'm happy to stick with these 3 into the future.

Cakewalk, Harrison Mixbus 4, Waveform 9, ADK intel i7 2600 3.40 ghz, 8gb Ram, Win 7, Presonus Audiobox 44VSL. 
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#50
xiwix
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Re: What DAW are you going to now? 2018/02/24 01:36:53 (permalink)
How come nobody said they were going to try BandLab?
#51
abacab
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Re: What DAW are you going to now? 2018/02/24 03:25:21 (permalink)
Is that a trick question? 

DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ... 
#52
DeeringAmps
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Re: What DAW are you going to now? 2018/02/24 03:55:30 (permalink)
What DAW will I be using?
SONAR, duh!

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#53
Studioguy1
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Re: What DAW are you going to now? 2018/02/24 07:24:20 (permalink)
I am proud to say that I am indeed a Sonar Platinum user and plan on remaining so.  Thank you.

Current happy user of Cakewalk by BandLab;
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#54
azslow3
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Re: What DAW are you going to now? 2018/02/24 07:58:49 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Nino Vargas 2018/02/25 00:51:54
xiwix
How come nobody said they were going to try BandLab?

(Current) BandLab is in fact a nice toy. It is obviously not possible to call it a DAW (most usual DAW attributes do not exist), but it is good for what it is. I was surprised.
 
Sonar can have a future. That is a great news for all Sonar junkies, independent from how it is going to grow.
But objectively, at the moment Sonar is one of the worse DAWs in terms of performance, stability and consistency. Mr. Kuok needs some wonder to change that. I wish he can find proper coders and give them sufficient time. But once the "thing" is there, I am sure he is able to promote that properly (BandLab videos are attracting, unlike almost all CW videos which I guess had opposite effect...).

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#55
anydmusic
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Re: What DAW are you going to now? 2018/02/24 11:25:27 (permalink)
The announcement does not change my move to Cubase it does mean though that I am open to considering Sonar again in the future.

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#56
Soundwise
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Re: What DAW are you going to now? 2018/02/24 15:53:14 (permalink)
azslow3
at the moment Sonar is one of the worse DAWs in terms of performance, stability and consistency.

Not sure what makes you say that. On my PC Sonar is the most stable and efficient DAW. I can finish a project from scratch within only a few hours in Sonar. For instance, this particular tune was ready in 3-4 hours, including writing, arranging, recording, mixing.
 

 
Takes a lot longer in other DAWs I also own and know fairly well.

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kitekrazy1
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Re: What DAW are you going to now? 2018/02/24 16:20:04 (permalink)
I'm a doubting Thomas when it comes to change. I feel betrayed after getting 11 months out of my lifetime update. I wont put any more money into Sonar. I have plenty of other DAWs and need to weed some of them out.  Despite reading the Q&A I'm a bit cautious.

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bdickens
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Re: What DAW are you going to now? 2018/02/24 16:35:35 (permalink)
SONAR!

Byron Dickens
#59
azslow3
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Re: What DAW are you going to now? 2018/02/24 17:46:53 (permalink)
Soundwise
azslow3
at the moment Sonar is one of the worse DAWs in terms of performance, stability and consistency.

Not sure what makes you say that. On my PC Sonar is the most stable and efficient DAW. I can finish a project from scratch within only a few hours in Sonar. For instance, this particular tune was ready in 3-4 hours, including writing, arranging, recording, mixing.
 
Takes a lot longer in other DAWs I also own and know fairly well.

Nice project
 
But that is an indication of a good work-flow, layout and features. Combined with personal preferences to do things (while most DAWs can till some degree "imitate" behavior of other DAWs, not native for particular DAW approach can be from inconvenient up to annoying).
I have not mentioned anything from that as a "bad side" of Sonar. I also like all that, especially the layout.
 
* performance. I have "low end" desktop computer, and there the luck of performance is easy to stop. "Wrong" option set - CPU spikes up to 100% when I move the mouse over the track view (my video card is up to date). Just starting Sonar takes "ages". Keeping lower ASIO buffer, even with RME, is not possible with more then several plug-ins. Sure everything is relative. I was happy all that years.  But on the same computer, other DAW: start within several seconds including project loading, work with low ASIO buffer as long as the project can play at all, has almost zero CPU use increase no matter what I do
 
* stability. Not too often (especially since X3) and almost without crashes, but from time to time something was weird. And that is under condition that I, as "usual" Sonar user, already at X1 time have learn to avoid some operations, especially when transport was not stopped. I was reading many times in this forum that is the only way to work with any DAW (except Ableton which was thought for "live" operations). But my modern experience have shown that is not true. Adding tracks, effects, replacing synthes, re-routing, arming, etc. while playing the project can work without glitches.
 
* consistency. Is there any post 8.5 feature which has no list of occasional or permanent funny "features"? Several general "highlights":
- only in some Platinum (so after more then 25 year) CW has managed to save MIDI inputs info into projects. But lol, even in the last version they have not managed to use that information properly. And in several last versions they have managed to break complete IO re-interpretation, so if some hardware is changed, Windows device manager and removing INI files is the only way to restore.
- in which language "None" means "All"?
- "Enable MIDI output is a property of VST" (it is not, VST property is "I support MIDI output")
- DX style MIDI processing (it has several design mistakes from the beginning)
The list is almost endless, but I stop now

Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro
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