What Time Signature is this?

Can someone please tell me the time sig. on this song  www.last.fm/music/Acoustic+Alchemy/_/The+Alchemist

I'm having trouble figuring it out.

Thanks

What am I missing? What do you think the bpm is?

That's a tricky one, but I agree it's 4/4 ...with a triplet feel. The downbeat is silent and the guitar comes in on the 3rd triplet of the 1st beat. Definitely messed with my brain!

It helps to tap along with the hihat and start counting on the beat when the guitars go silent.

I'm guessing the bpm is around 80-90 or something?

edit: oops, I forgot I always think in terms of 8/8. So my tempo guess would be 160-180

Well I didn't cheat, you have to admit I made a decent guess with no metronome

Also, there is a triplet feel to the guitars which is what I was referring to, since marco is a guitarist.

marcos69


I appreciate both of your input.

Jeff, let me understand - is it like this 1 2 3 4 5 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 with each note being a quarter note?

Hey m, see you're thinking in terms of triplets (6/8) which is what I was talking about. The drums are in straight 4/4 like J said, but if it were a guitar only piece, it could almost be written in 6/8 (with a 4/8 every 3rd measure) but that would get sloppy, so 4/4 triplet is best. That's why I said it was tricky!

Btw, if it were in 6/8 then yes, you're absolutely correct with your accents.

I edited my post as you replied.

This is the only way it makes sense to me, otherwise my mind says 6/4.  Obviously this is a weak link in my musical tool kit.

Spaceduck


Jeff, don't make me write out the guitar score! It's in triplets, I bet my life.
Like I said, you're thinking as a drummer, but marcos is a guitarist.

True that Duck, but I'm going to cover this song and I need to setup my project correctly per the drum beat.  That, and I need to educate myself, so this info is great.  Thanks guys.

Jeff Evans


To me they are just playing a straight eighth groove at 146 and the guitar is phrasing over all this as per the charleston pattern. I would be setting it up that way. So Space I am not disagreeing with you either. I am also a composer with strong melodic skills so I can see the 6/8 phrasing there. But I suppose my drumming thing kicks in first. (Cant help it) The bass sounds like it is in 4 as well.

And that's the right way to do it! As you said, if we were to write the guitar in 6/8, not only would there be a goofy 4/8 interlude every 3 measures, but the drums & bass would be a disaster to write on top of it. So yeah... everyone just forget everything I ever said about 6/8 and triplets!

Mark, I dunno if this helps, but just for kicks I sketched out how I would do the 1st two measures in 4/4

 

Isn't it interesting how you can hear the same music in more than one way. I love it when a tune starts off and you are convinced that it is in a certain groove only to find when other things kick in it is completely different to how you were hearing it.

That's my favourite thing in the world. Like in the beginning of Rush "Limelight" or Zep "Misty Mountain Hop". The instruments start on a weird beat, but we assume it's 1. Then the drums come in and set us straight. I love that brief moment of "whoa.... the world just shifted under my feet" 

Man, listening to you makes me realize how much I have to learn regarding rhythm & grooves.

Is there a specific word for what you just described, i.e. changing the time signature or tempo, but not all at once? Sorta letting the new time signature creep in, divide & conquer?

On a tangent, what I really dug about Bonham was when the rest of the band's playing in some weird time signature, but he just plows through in 4/4 like a freight train, like in "Black Dog".

Btw, I wholly agree: Techniques, Coffee, Songs... & I'll add Hardware... are the best forums on the planet!

Hey brundle, your 16/8 is exactly what I was hearing also: 2 measures of 6/8 and 1 measure of 4/8 (6/8 + 6/8 + 4/8 = 16/8).
I think the 3 of us--you, me & mark--were listening to the guitar.
But Jeff is right, we should be listening to the drums for the proper time signature, 4/4.
I love this kinda stuff. More fun than sodoku

On a slight tangent - when Zappa introduced the audience to the tune "Thirteen", he told them how to count it.

It went:

one-two one-two-three ONE TWO THREE FOUR
one-two one-two-three ONE TWO THREE FOUR


And then there's the delightful
 
five-five-FIVE played a a ridiculously fast tempo.

   If I'm listening to the right song it's more a matter of
understanding the nominal rhythm structure each player is
using. I don't hear a triplet feel anywhere. A triplet feel would
be similar to playing like this"

  1       2       3      4
  123   123  123  123

  the bass is accenting the upbeats of  2  a lot.
   (hitting on 1 and the upbeat of 2 a lot)
    1      2        3      4
    1           &

     the drums are playing a lot of eight and sixteenth
     notes

     1        2       3        4        or        1         2        3         4
     /    /    /   /   /    /    /                    / / / /   / / / /  / / / /   / / / /

    The bass guitar is the main instrument  giving this song
such a "syncopated" (for lack of better words feel).  This sounds
like a live performance too so there will be a variance in
locking into an exact time (as far as hitting right on a perfect
time).

  So this will "cloud things a bit".   If the drummer is calling the
bpm  146 (or whatever). then he is considering himself playing
mostly 8th notes.

  If were scoring this I would however write it as 70.3 bpm
and say the drummer is playing mostly 16th notes. And the
time sig is 4/4.   I didnt check to see if there might be some
2/4 measures in there. if there are then that will throw a
person off.


 

I don't hear a triplet feel anywhere. A triplet feel would be similar to playing like this

1       2       3      4
123   123  123  123

See my first post. It's more like the pattern below (I took out all spaces to make the alignment of beats clearer). From this, you can see why I don't want to call it 4/4.

1      2      3      4
1231231231231212

Thanks to everyone who's taken a stab at this.  I'm almost glad to see such varying opinions.  I was feeling real inadequate that I couldn't easily figure it out.

I wonder why you can't hear the whole thing.  I get the whole song to play here.