AnsweredWhat do you guitarists use for bass....

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Mesh
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2017/09/06 13:36:01 (permalink)

What do you guitarists use for bass....

When you don't have an actual bass and use your regular guitar?
 
I've tried using a pitch shift pedal in Amplitube 3 & 4......A4's pitch shift pedal didn't work as well as the one in A3. It wasn't too bad, but wondered if there's a better way to use them. I also have Jam Origin's midi guitar.
 
Just wondered what you guys use that works pretty well?
 
 

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dwardzala
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/06 15:12:08 (permalink)
I have used the BOSS COSM octave transposition effect (in my BR-600) in the past.  It works fairly well except if you hold a note for a long period of time.  When the signal decays, its gets a little wonky.

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jamesg1213
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/06 16:30:32 (permalink)
Synth bass played on my keyboard (if Bapu's not available..which hasn't happened  often..) Never had any luck simulating a bass using a guitar, I've tried several methods, including converting audio to MIDI.

 
Jyemz
 
 
 



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drewfx1
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/06 16:38:36 (permalink)
Mesh
When you don't have an actual bass and use your regular guitar?
 
I've tried using a pitch shift pedal in Amplitube 3 & 4......A4's pitch shift pedal didn't work as well as the one in A3. It wasn't too bad, but wondered if there's a better way to use them. I also have Jam Origin's midi guitar.
 
Just wondered what you guys use that works pretty well?
 
 




If you wanted to take, say Joan Baez's voice and turn it into Barry White's, what would you use?
 
I'd assume if it worked "pretty well" for that then it might work "pretty well" for what you want as well.
 
And vice versa 

 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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BobF
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/06 17:21:29 (permalink)
Keyboard

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Slugbaby
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/06 18:45:42 (permalink)
I use the SI Bass synth, and then run it through an amp sim (AmpegSVX for me).
It's not as good as a real bass, but might be better than re-pitching a guitar.

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mettelus
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/06 20:33:07 (permalink)
VSTi->amp sim chain as well, more for convenience. The nuances of a real bass do not pitch shift well from a guitar, so a real (cheap) bass would be a better route.

There was a decent post regarding this while back but forgot what method he used. Melodyne in melodic mode may be another option to try.

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AndyB01
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/06 20:55:43 (permalink)
A VST - usually DimPro - but quite fancy one of these: www.theguitarmagazine.com/gear/bass-guitars/taylor-gs-mini-e-bass/

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Chandler
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/07 03:28:08 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby galeom 2017/09/08 08:45:19
I drop my guitar down an octave using sonar's pitchshift algo, then I put that through a bass amp. I find this works better than using midi because nuances still come through. Slap bass doesn't work to well using this method. Here is a video I did demoing this method.

https://youtu.be/_iJlTc_qdrQ

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Chandler
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/07 03:28:09 (permalink)
double

post edited by Chandler - 2017/09/07 04:22:05

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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/07 06:01:14 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby synkrotron 2017/09/09 12:10:57
Being a bass player I still often grab VSTs during conceptual work or song writing e.g. when the key is not yet fixed. Quite often I'm surprised how well it does in that respect (NI Rickenbacker most definitely, other Kontakt bass libs are also OK).
 
You need to play what a bass player would play, though, not guitar stuff ... especially, in terms of timing and also how many notes you allow ;-) I don't mean to be patronizing by any means but IMHO that's more often the problem than the bass sound. Quantized straight eights will sound like s*** even using the most realistic bass lib. Never ever quantize a bass, that's a cardinal sin. Even with a keyboard, play until you are in the pocket and fix individual notes at most.
 
 

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bdickens
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/07 17:14:11 (permalink) ☼ Best Answerby Mesh 2017/09/14 19:28:42
For best results, bite the bullet & get a real bass. I know, I know.... But even a beat-up cheap from out of the local pawn shop will yield usable results and be much less hassle.

I lucked out big time & scored one of the old Korean made Squier P basses for dirt cheap.

Byron Dickens
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michaelhanson
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/07 17:35:28 (permalink)
bdickens
For best results, bite the bullet & get a real bass. I know, I know.... But even a beat-up cheap from out of the local pawn shop will yield usable results and be much less hassle.

I lucked out big time & scored one of the old Korean made Squier P basses for dirt cheap.



Agree, even a cheap bass is going to sound more like a real bass.  Using a guitar to simulate a bass, doesn't really catch the realism of a real bass.  One plays bass differently than a guitar, with shorter neck and lighter strings.  Guitar players tend to over play.  Bass is all about timing, finding the groove and holding the pocket. 

Mike

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jerrydf
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/07 19:08:26 (permalink)
+1 for the real bass. We're musicians playing music, why not get the real experience? 

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BenMMusTech
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/07 22:56:37 (permalink)
I use GR4 octave peddle in combo with GR4 bass amp sim. Before the signal goes into amp, I tend to use Sonar's tube emulator FX...Very cool. Most of the time I will then use a tasty compressor...either Wave's Pye or Wave's Fairchild. After amp sim I tend to use Wave's Kramer Helios EQ and finally Wave's NLS summing amp. :) oh and on occasion I will double the electric bass guitar sound with a 303 sound. I do this by using Audio Snap pallate and extract midi notes, so both instruments are in sync...I then tend to feed the bass out into a drum aux where I will EQ the summed mix and place a tape emulator - Wave's J37 - over the top. This is then fed into a drum buss lol, where I put a final compressor over the lot...either a. Wave's Comp, a Fairchild or Sonar's SSL emulation. And for those thinking that is a stupid amount of FXs and processing...what I'm doing is emulating an analogue signal path...so everything is fed out to a virtual tape aux, then fed back into a desk or buss for final mixing. When using virtual summing amps, it's important to follow a strict signal chain.

Ben

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jamesg1213
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/08 12:05:55 (permalink)
BenMMusTech
I use GR4 octave peddle in combo with GR4 bass amp sim. Before the signal goes into amp, I tend to use Sonar's tube emulator FX...Very cool. Most of the time I will then use a tasty compressor...either Wave's Pye or Wave's Fairchild. After amp sim I tend to use Wave's Kramer Helios EQ and finally Wave's NLS summing amp. :) oh and on occasion I will double the electric bass guitar sound with a 303 sound. I do this by using Audio Snap pallate and extract midi notes, so both instruments are in sync...I then tend to feed the bass out into a drum aux where I will EQ the summed mix and place a tape emulator - Wave's J37 - over the top. This is then fed into a drum buss lol, where I put a final compressor over the lot...either a. Wave's Comp, a Fairchild or Sonar's SSL emulation. And for those thinking that is a stupid amount of FXs and processing...what I'm doing is emulating an analogue signal path...so everything is fed out to a virtual tape aux, then fed back into a desk or buss for final mixing. When using virtual summing amps, it's important to follow a strict signal chain.

Ben



 
That thought did cross my mind, yes....

 
Jyemz
 
 
 



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gswitz
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/08 12:20:09 (permalink)
Just in line with the rest, if the same person plays all the parts it often shows. This is ok if you are the artist who used to be Prince, or Jerry Garcia, but for most of us, inviting other talent into the studio helps.

If using a real bass is good, using a real bass and real bass player is better.
post edited by gswitz - 2017/09/09 01:16:18

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Voda La Void
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/08 12:23:12 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2017/09/08 13:33:35
+1 on the real bass suggestions.  I went through all this years ago, trying to use a guitar as a bass, all kinds of creative gyrations - basically working my ass off in my studio chair.  I gave it all up the moment I heard a 75 dollar beat up Ibanez DI'd to my sound card.  All my machinations couldn't even match an ugly pawn shop bass completely dry.  
 
It's a complete waste of valuable time in my ever so humbled opinion.  Congrats if you can pull it off, but playing real bass is kinda fun anyway and you know how ladies love bass players.

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michaelhanson
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/08 15:40:39 (permalink)
Voda La Void
....... and you know how ladies love bass players.




Guys watch the guitar player and play along air guitar.  The ladies dance and groove to the Bass.     
 
On another note, I play in the worship band, when Bass and Drums stop playing, people tend to stop singing.  
 
 

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jackson white
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/08 16:38:49 (permalink)
michaelhanson

 Guitar players tend to over play. 

 
-Every- time. 
 
gswitz
using a real bass and real bass player is better.

 
Every time. 
 

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batsbrew
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/08 17:57:18 (permalink)
Mesh
When you don't have an actual bass and use your regular guitar?

man, with killer basses available for cheap money,
why use anything else?
 
nothing else is going to sound real.
plus, you can't groove on a guitar, like you can a bass.
never settle for fake when you don't have to.

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BenMMusTech
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/08 22:21:35 (permalink)
I try not to be a show off these days...but when someone doesn't believe you...Listen to The Rip Of The Tide by A Techno-Romantic #np on #SoundCloud
https://soundcloud.com/aa...ks/the-rip-of-the-tide
This track, which I recorded and wrote in 4 days, although it took over a year to mix lol, should convince you great sounding bass is a achievable using my technique. The bass is basically my electric guitar fed through a myriad of signal processors ;). If it worked for Jack White!

Not convinced? Here is another example Listen to When Every Song Is Sung (I'll Still Love You) by A Techno-Romantic #np on #SoundCloud
https://soundcloud.com/aa...ung-ill-still-love-you This one is my George Harrison cover, I recently added Waves TG12345 channel strip to my plug collection, and have mixed the entire track with this channel strip, Wave's summing amp set to the same desk, and I've also used Vox amp Sims and a Fairchild limiter. The bottom end in my opinion is very close to The Beatles Abbey Road. The bottom end bounces, and you can walk around in the mix.

Oh, and to be a real show off, if you listen with over the ear headphones...in both tracks, certain sections, sonically sound will spin around your head in surround sound.

My point is...don't listen to anyone, because sure, if you don't know what you are doing...then you won't get a realistic bass sound with a guitar or synth, but if you do...And remember I didn't know what I was doing...as some in this forum will attest...now after many years :).

Peace

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Matron Landslide
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/09 00:23:02 (permalink)
A real bass is the only and best way really
 
BenMMusTech

This track, which I recorded and wrote in 4 days, although it took over a year to mix lol, should convince you great sounding bass is a achievable using my technique.




It does nothing of the sort, if anything it goes to prove the opposite imo
 
BenMMusTech
 
Not convinced? Here is another example
 

 
No, and I'm still not, far from it
 
BenMMusTech
 
I try not to be a show off these days...but when someone doesn't believe you...
 

 
umm, you mention showing off a few times in your post, I don't believe you understand the meaning or purpose of 'showing off', because nothing you posted there did it in any way shape or form, sorry.
 
After listening to the examples you gave (I listened as long as I could, enough to hear that the bass sound sucked and was in no way comparable to a real bass, I just couldn't bring myself to listen to either in full) I find myself wondering if you have in fact ever actually played or heard even a real bass, because those examples are far and away off the mark, and in no way convey the feel, or sound of a real bass played by a real person.
 
Sorry, that's just how it is from where I stand.
 

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batsbrew
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/09 00:52:09 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2017/09/14 19:33:35
the FEEL of a real bass,
informs the performance.
 
and if you are not trying to capture an inspired performance,
then what's the point?
 

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gswitz
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/09 01:25:04 (permalink)
Matron >> little rough.
 
@Ben ... I liked it.
 
This is a recent recording I made of a real bass player... band played all the tunes in a row...
http://stabilitynetwork.blob.core.windows.net/g-tunes/20170731_Chronyx.html
You might try listening to Badge.
http://stabilitynetwork.blob.core.windows.net/g-tunes/20170731_Chronyx_12_Badge.mp3
  
Bass player was exhausted and says he's ready for the last song after song 10. 
 
Some of the music they played didn't get bounced b/c it wasn't really there yet.
 
Idk what bass guitar he was using... it was through a little amp on the floor and I mic'd it with a ribbon.
 
I took a direct too, but the direct always sucks, so I didn't use it.
 
The weirdest thing about this tape is that I didn't mic the snare and every hit is so out of phase it's nutty. I couldn't bring it up. It was hopeless. The snare was only captured by over-heads not quite equi-distant from the head.
 
Laziness regretted.
 
This is another recording with a real bassist...
http://stabilitynetwork.blob.core.windows.net/g-tunes/20170427_VasiQuartet.html
 
In the photo on this page you can see the tiny CAD mic in front of the bassist. I had like 2 hours notice (at work) before this gig so I just grabbed and ran. The mic for bass = mic for bass drum. :-)

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#25
BenMMusTech
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/09 02:48:50 (permalink)
Matron Landslide
A real bass is the only and best way really
 
BenMMusTech

This track, which I recorded and wrote in 4 days, although it took over a year to mix lol, should convince you great sounding bass is a achievable using my technique.




It does nothing of the sort, if anything it goes to prove the opposite imo
 
BenMMusTech
 
Not convinced? Here is another example
 

 
No, and I'm still not, far from it
 
BenMMusTech
 
I try not to be a show off these days...but when someone doesn't believe you...
 

 
umm, you mention showing off a few times in your post, I don't believe you understand the meaning or purpose of 'showing off', because nothing you posted there did it in any way shape or form, sorry.
 
After listening to the examples you gave (I listened as long as I could, enough to hear that the bass sound sucked and was in no way comparable to a real bass, I just couldn't bring myself to listen to either in full) I find myself wondering if you have in fact ever actually played or heard even a real bass, because those examples are far and away off the mark, and in no way convey the feel, or sound of a real bass played by a real person.
 
Sorry, that's just how it is from where I stand.
 




I try never to listen to people with joke avatars, and indeed joke monikers! Anything I say, I believe whoever you are, will be used against me...because I suspect you're nothing but a small minded troll.
 
My point stands...it is not the tools, but the tools who use the tools who either **** a song up or make it great. If we followed your belief, and we stuck with the 'rules' in regards to real bass vs experimenting when a real bass isn't at hand, something like using a speaker for a microphone...ala Paul McCartney would not have been used on Paperback Writer. A track that changed the way bass was viewed within popular music.
 
For what it is worth, I mixed and mastered both tracks a couple of weeks ago, and I was not only trying to implement a series of new plugins into my mix and master chain, indeed I had to learn how to use said plugins. For example, Wave's VComp...which if you don't understand how to use can lead to an overcooked mid-section. Mind you it sounds great when you first hit upon that sound, but in reality it is a **** to EQ in mastering :). I also probably rolled off too much bottom end with the low-cut filter...I've been working on some virtual orchestral mixes, and this coupled with the new plugs has meant I've had to go back over my EQ technique - both mix and master - and it was this experimentation which lead to the realization I'd probably been rolling off too much bottom end in mastering. It may be this you're hearing...joke avatar person! No matter though, because the track is pretty low-fi anyway. Each new composition leads to new discoveries. The tracks and by proxy the masters' I posted links to are limited by the source material. Also, it depends on what you listen to said tracks on...for me I use AKG k712s, where there is a well-defined bottom end...bass comes through peachy. I also have a fairly good blutooth speaker...Harmon Kardon, and at the right volume sound comes through peachy. Now if I listen to masters on phone, bass doesn't come through so peachy :)...but the mix is all there, and it sounds peachy. I don't expect 5 cent phone speakers to be able to reproduce frequencies below 100hz...aint going to happen. You have to make masters as flat as possible...so if you played said tracks on a decent stereo, the bass would thunder through. I know this would be the case, even though I probably rolled off too much botom end.
 
It is also a shame, that Soundcloud's encoding process probably dilutes the bass sound too. This is even after I upload the master wave file at 64bitFP :).
 
I use to have an Epiphone Hofner replica Beatle bass, best bass I'd ever played...particularly for a guitarist. But equipment comes and goes. If I waited until I could get another of these basses, or indeed only had one type of bass...I would be limited to a certain type of music. Again, if the last great era of western art music taught us anything, it is experimentation is the key!
 
Ben

Benjamin Phillips-Bachelor of Creative Technology (Sound and Audio Production), (Hons) Sonic Arts, MMusTech (Master of Music Technology), M.Phil (Fine Art)
http://1331.space/
https://thedigitalartist.bandcamp.com/
http://soundcloud.com/aaudiomystiks
#26
batsbrew
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/09 04:40:21 (permalink)
i guess it's still the same as it ever was, really, the end result is all that matters.
shouldn't matter the path chosen.

"Stay"
"The Time is Magic"
https://soundcloud.com/bats-brew
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Sonar 6 PE>Win XP>RME Babyface Pro>Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GH>GeForce 8400>2GB DDR2 SDRAM
 
#27
BobF
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/09 13:43:00 (permalink)
batsbrew
Mesh
When you don't have an actual bass and use your regular guitar?

man, with killer basses available for cheap money,
why use anything else?
 
nothing else is going to sound real.
plus, you can't groove on a guitar, like you can a bass.
never settle for fake when you don't have to.


I picked up a Peavey Milestone bass a couple of years ago for something less than 2 bills.  It's a fine instrument, although the machine could stand an upgrade.
 
Not that I've accomplished a lot with it, I have to say that the captured sound is much more realistic than any kbd/VI I've tried.
 
IMO the choice comes down to how important authentic bass tracks are to you.
 

Bob  --
Angels are crying because truth has died ...
Illegitimi non carborundum
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#28
kennywtelejazz
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/09 20:12:08 (permalink)
For the life of me , I can not picture this new sonic atrocity of mine with out a real Bass .
 
https://soundcloud.com/guitarist-kenny-wilson/ca-x-amp-sims-hard-rock-guitar
 
I only paid 40 bucks for the bass and I would be very lucky if I ever got a hundred for it .
It still has the same flatwound strings on it from 15 years ago when I bought it 
Kenny
 

                   
Oh Yeah , Life is Good ,  SONAR SPlat .
Gibson R 8 Les Paul VOS , American Bulldog
 
https://soundcloud.com/guitarist-kenny-wilson
 
https://www.youtube.com/user/Kennywtelejazz/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=1
 
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=427899



#29
gswitz
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/09 20:24:20 (permalink)
Nice one, Kenny.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#30
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