AnsweredWhat do you guitarists use for bass....

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kennywtelejazz
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/10 17:14:34 (permalink)
gswitz
Nice one, Kenny.



Thank you for the kind word gswitz
The tune itself is a little Hard Rock experiment I did using The new Craig Anderton  Amp Sim's.
I go into details in Craig's thread .
http://forum.cakewalk.com/30-New-CAX-Amp-Sims-Available-as-part-of-30th-Anniversary-Celebration-m3653319.aspx#3654341
 
 
all the best,
 
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#31
markno999
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/14 16:44:50 (permalink)
As others have said, nothing beats a real bass.   Like Voda La Void I also spent countless hours to perfect this process with a guitar.   Even taking the sound quality out of the equation, a guitar just doesn't play like a bass.    
 
Best investment I have made in recent years was a $200 bass on Craigslist.   Occasionally will use Trillian but usually go for the real bass.    
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/14 19:46:10 (permalink)
Excellent suggestions here and I appreciate all the ideas. The bottom line is I also like the feel of playing a real bass in my hands and getting a cheap one is very doable. I know what you mean by "a guitar just doesn't play like a bass" and to boot, I'm a lead guitarist.....so the bass sitting in the groove will very likely end up being soloing in the groove.  
 
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TheMaartian
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/14 20:55:25 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2017/09/19 17:54:06
OK, then. Check out these nifty short scale (28.6") basses from Ibanez, the GSRM Mikro. $180 on MF and Amazon.
 
http://www.ibanez.com/usa.../jumpstart/GSRM20.html
 


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TheMaartian
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/14 20:55:29 (permalink)


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batsbrew
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/14 22:21:18 (permalink)
i play a mikro.

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#36
KHARMA
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/16 17:20:25 (permalink)
I bought one of the ibanez micros and had a luthier turn it into a fretless. He replaced the frets with small inlays that are helpful to me as a non bass player. They also make a 5-string model.
#37
lawajava
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/17 00:09:54 (permalink)
I'd read this thread before and had nothing to add.

Tonight though I was working on a piece and decided to try just recording myself playing on my regular electric guitar the bass parts.

After playing /recording the bass line with my electric I added Waves Soundshifter and transposed it down an octave. For my bass amp via Amplitube 4 I tried out some of the Ampeg SVX 2 amps I had recently picked up.

It sounds really pretty nice in the mix. I was surprised how well it sounded. I'll be investigating this further.

Although I'm pretty motivated to try using MODO bass via the keyboard. It sure was easy to play it on the electric guitar though. No new skills involved.

P.S. The technique only worked for me on play back. Soundshifter introduces latency when tracking/recording, but none on playback.

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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/17 03:55:15 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2017/09/17 04:03:00
For a real sounding bass part, I generally play it on my guitar, convert to MIDI with Melodyne, transpose down an octave and then fire up Trilian. So many amazing basses in there and if you get your head around the keyswitches you can make it sound very real. 

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Slugbaby
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/18 13:20:53 (permalink)
sharke
For a real sounding bass part, I generally play it on my guitar, convert to MIDI with Melodyne, transpose down an octave and then fire up Trilian. So many amazing basses in there and if you get your head around the keyswitches you can make it sound very real. 


As I read this thread, I was thinking this too.  A great idea.

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Mesh
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/19 18:00:14 (permalink)
sharke
For a real sounding bass part, I generally play it on my guitar, convert to MIDI with Melodyne, transpose down an octave and then fire up Trilian. So many amazing basses in there and if you get your head around the keyswitches you can make it sound very real. 


Is it the version of Melodyne that came with Sonar or an ungraded version?   

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kennywtelejazz
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/19 21:42:57 (permalink)
Mesh
sharke
For a real sounding bass part, I generally play it on my guitar, convert to MIDI with Melodyne, transpose down an octave and then fire up Trilian. So many amazing basses in there and if you get your head around the keyswitches you can make it sound very real. 


Is it the version of Melodyne that came with Sonar or an ungraded version?   




I've done this myself at times ......Melodyne Essentials ( what comes w SONAR ) does this very well
 
Kenny

                   
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#42
Jeff Evans
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/19 22:26:35 (permalink)
Yes the midi idea is a great one for sure.  Don't forget that realism comes with what is actually being played. Guitarists tend to play bass a bit like a guitarist whereas a bass player tends to play bass much more like a bass player.  There is a difference. 
 
I play drums and keyboards and can create extremely realistic (sampled or synth) bass parts. But it is only because I have had the fortunate experience of having great bass players in my ear for the last 47 years!

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sharke
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/20 13:58:15 (permalink)
I agree with Jeff that when you try to play a bass part on guitar, it has the tendency to come out like a guitar riff if you're not careful. Especially when you're trying to feel out or jam a bass part from scratch. There's something about having that guitar in your hand that makes you think like a guitarist (amazingly enough!). It works better if you can pretty much hear the bass part in your head first, then it's a matter of translating it to guitar. 
 
However, another Melodyne method that might work better for you is to hum the part into a mic and then have Melodyne convert that to MIDI. It's probably somewhat easier to get into that bass player "mindspace" when you're making bass noises with your mouth as opposed to trying to play a bass part on guitar. 
 
I have a crappy Logitech USB mic set up for quick and easy humming into Melodyne. You don't need high fidelity.  

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michaelhanson
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/20 19:40:00 (permalink)
Jeff Evans
Yes the midi idea is a great one for sure.  Don't forget that realism comes with what is actually being played. Guitarists tend to play bass a bit like a guitarist whereas a bass player tends to play bass much more like a bass player.  There is a difference. 
 
I play drums and keyboards and can create extremely realistic (sampled or synth) bass parts. But it is only because I have had the fortunate experience of having great bass players in my ear for the last 47 years!


Exactly!  A simple example would be that bass players often slide into notes because the distance between the frets are far greater than their hands can reach. 
 
I've played guitar for around 40 years, but bass only for the last 15 yrs.  It took a long while for me to learn to play like a bass player and not like a guitar player, playing the bass.

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TheMaartian
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/20 20:04:00 (permalink)
michaelhanson
Exactly!  A simple example would be that bass players often slide into notes because the distance between the frets are far greater than their hands can reach. 
 
I've played guitar for around 40 years, but bass only for the last 15 yrs.  It took a long while for me to learn to play like a bass player and not like a guitar player, playing the bass.

+1
 
A good example is one that drove me nuts trying to transcribe pre-Melodyne...the first 2 bass notes of Too Rich For My Blood by Patricia Barber (the YT below). Once I got Melodyne and got a look at the intro (and then going, duh, double basses are fretless), I saw that the first note was 50 cents sharp and the second note was 25 cents sharp, and then everything after dropped into the key of F. And if it's not played that way, it just doesn't work. Couldn't make that sound right with a bend on a guitar. Or a fretted bass, for that matter. Hard to do a slide out of a half tone bend into a quarter tone bend (me, anyway). But I've got it working now with OTS' CoreBass Pear!
 


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#46
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/20 20:20:02 (permalink)
batsbrew
i play a mikro.


Any downsides in playing the Mikro?
That bass looks like a good starting point........I really should go to the local Guitar Center and check it out. 
 
 

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Voda La Void
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/21 12:28:20 (permalink)
I guess I don't understand the point of the Mikro.  Why the need for a shorter scale?  You guys got little Trump hands or somethin'?  
 
 
 
 

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Anderton
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/21 13:11:53 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby michaelhanson 2017/09/21 20:12:25
In terms of playing style, the main point to remember about bass is that it's part of the *rhythm* section.

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jerrydf
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/21 23:05:28 (permalink)
Anderton
In terms of playing style, the main point to remember about bass is that it's part of the *rhythm* section.


Don't tell us. Tell the three out of four bass players who think they are the main event. 

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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/22 05:18:54 (permalink)
jerrydf
Anderton
In terms of playing style, the main point to remember about bass is that it's part of the *rhythm* section.


Don't tell us. Tell the three out of four bass players who think they are the main event. 




LOL. give them time to grow up. might take 20 years, though. meanwhile stick to the 1 out of 4
 
IMHO bass is a "don't know what you got till its gone" thing. applies to bass players as well as a good bass line which is never in your face but makes the song fall apart when you hit the mute button on the bass.

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#51
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/22 11:13:11 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2017/09/22 13:34:23
Voda La Void
I guess I don't understand the point of the Mikro.  Why the need for a shorter scale?  You guys got little Trump hands or somethin'?  
 


If you’re very used to a guitar’s scale length, which is generally 25.5” or less, playing a long-scale bass fluidly requires a different “muscle memory” because the frets are far enough apart that the frets just aren’t where guitar-based practice and experience says they should be, if you see what I mean. That’s on top of the mental re-mapping needed to deal with the top two strings being “missing” and the different fret-hand fingerings required to accomodate the bigger gap between the frets.

A short scale bass can help with all of that. Though some guitarists find it an effort to switch between Gibson and Fender guitar scale lengths which only differ by 3/4”.

And yes, some people have smaller hands than others.

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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/22 12:48:05 (permalink)
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/22 13:44:50 (permalink)
tlw
Voda La Void
I guess I don't understand the point of the Mikro.  Why the need for a shorter scale?  You guys got little Trump hands or somethin'?  
 


If you’re very used to a guitar’s scale length, which is generally 25.5” or less, playing a long-scale bass fluidly requires a different “muscle memory” because the frets are far enough apart that the frets just aren’t where guitar-based practice and experience says they should be, if you see what I mean. That’s on top of the mental re-mapping needed to deal with the top two strings being “missing” and the different fret-hand fingerings required to accomodate the bigger gap between the frets.

A short scale bass can help with all of that. Though some guitarists find it an effort to switch between Gibson and Fender guitar scale lengths which only differ by 3/4”.

And yes, some people have smaller hands than others.

What appealed to me about a short scale bass is that it's about the same size as guitar (which I imagine would be comfortable to play). As long as the mikro is decent in tone and playability, that would work for me.
 
I'll also be using some amp sims to sculpture the sound. Possibly in time, I might want more than what a mikro has to offer.....IDK.

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Voda La Void
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/22 13:57:47 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2017/09/22 14:02:59
tlw
Voda La Void
I guess I don't understand the point of the Mikro.  Why the need for a shorter scale?  You guys got little Trump hands or somethin'?  
 


If you’re very used to a guitar’s scale length, which is generally 25.5” or less, playing a long-scale bass fluidly requires a different “muscle memory” because the frets are far enough apart that the frets just aren’t where guitar-based practice and experience says they should be, if you see what I mean. That’s on top of the mental re-mapping needed to deal with the top two strings being “missing” and the different fret-hand fingerings required to accomodate the bigger gap between the frets.

A short scale bass can help with all of that. Though some guitarists find it an effort to switch between Gibson and Fender guitar scale lengths which only differ by 3/4”.

And yes, some people have smaller hands than others.



To me, and this is just my opinion and personal experience, that's a small adjustment rather than a real issue.  I never even really thought about it.  Just played the bass and adjusted.  I probably sound like an a-hole, but I promise I'm genuinely mystified why that would be a big deal to anyone. 
 
I have short, fat fingers (don't say it!) and switch back and forth from guitar and bass all the time.  It's just not a "thing", I guess.  An entire bass guitar line to circumvent a little adjustment and adaptation.  Seems like I would spend more time shopping for one than it would take to just sit down for a few minutes and adjust. 
 
To each their own, though.  I bought a $400 hi-hat stand to move my hats to a center hat drum kit configuration rather than simply adjust and adapt to cross sticking.  So I guess we each pick our handicaps...rock on.

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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/22 14:21:51 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2017/09/22 14:28:48
Voda La Void
tlw
Voda La Void
I guess I don't understand the point of the Mikro.  Why the need for a shorter scale?  You guys got little Trump hands or somethin'?  


If you’re very used to a guitar’s scale length, which is generally 25.5” or less, playing a long-scale bass fluidly requires a different “muscle memory” because the frets are far enough apart that the frets just aren’t where guitar-based practice and experience says they should be, if you see what I mean. That’s on top of the mental re-mapping needed to deal with the top two strings being “missing” and the different fret-hand fingerings required to accomodate the bigger gap between the frets.

A short scale bass can help with all of that. Though some guitarists find it an effort to switch between Gibson and Fender guitar scale lengths which only differ by 3/4”.

And yes, some people have smaller hands than others.



To me, and this is just my opinion and personal experience, that's a small adjustment rather than a real issue.  I never even really thought about it.  Just played the bass and adjusted.  I probably sound like an a-hole, but I promise I'm genuinely mystified why that would be a big deal to anyone. 
 
I have short, fat fingers (don't say it!) and switch back and forth from guitar and bass all the time.  It's just not a "thing", I guess.  An entire bass guitar line to circumvent a little adjustment and adaptation.  Seems like I would spend more time shopping for one than it would take to just sit down for a few minutes and adjust. 
 
To each their own, though.  I bought a $400 hi-hat stand to move my hats to a center hat drum kit configuration rather than simply adjust and adapt to cross sticking.  So I guess we each pick our handicaps...rock on.




Agree with this 100%.  I have small hands as well.  I had to learn to actually use my pinky to play Bass.  That in turn, actually made me a better guitar player.  Bass also strengthened my hands.  
 
I switch from my Rick bass, to my Gibson LP to my Strat daily, really with out any thought or effort.  I've learned to adapt quickly to the instrument I am playing.  The differences in the instruments, influence the style of play.  I may pick up the LP on purpose, because of the style of song I am playing.  
 
Again, as Craig mentioned above, the Bass is a rhythm instrument meant to lock into the drums and hold down the groove.  Perfect timing is more important than speed.  Less is often better.  Unless of course, you are trying to be one of the 3/4 of Bass Players wanting to be the "main event".
 
 

Mike

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mettelus
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/22 15:53:41 (permalink)
I will admit that the Mikro was initially very appealing to me but then I realized the reason why -- the intent to play it like a guitar. Since I am not fluent on bass as it is, that would just end up muddying the waters to learning bass properly. All of the things that cause me "grief" are because I am trying to play it like the wrong instrument (more often than not actually).

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Mesh
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/22 16:18:31 (permalink)
Just curious Michael, wouldn't that be more of a mental thing......to be able to stay within the confines of the bass line? (no matter what size the bass is)
 

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TheMaartian
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/22 16:32:58 (permalink)
In further defense of short scale basses, I offer the following:
 


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michaelhanson
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Re: What do you guitarists use for bass.... 2017/09/22 16:47:53 (permalink)
Mesh
Just curious Michael, wouldn't that be more of a mental thing......to be able to stay within the confines of the bass line? (no matter what size the bass is)
 


Probably. I could also probably play a guitar simulating a Bass much more like a Bass as well, now that I have been forced to think like a Bass Player.

Which is kind of the same answer I would have with Tal, she is a Bass Player.

Mike

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iTunes:
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