Subjacent
Twaddle -I guess its all a big misunderstanding I did not want for it to come to this, I must admit I did jump the gun at first on thinking you where being personal and I had then thought I had edited all that out so I apologies for that, Blame that on some new medication I must have been temporarily loco, its happens to all of us at some stage in life lol
 
Am I forgiven  :)  - sorry Twaddle.
 

 
Yeah don't worry about it.
 
In your other post you mentioned how fan boys go over the top and get personal which is true but they also belittle other products which was what I felt you were doing by calling them all toys.
 
I'm an out of the closet complete and utter fan boy when it comes to BFD2 and now BFD3 which I am quite in love with but I try to be respectful of others peoples choices in my vigorous campaign to lead people to the light.
 
Also if you're going to make claims about your product of choice being better than the others you should at least back those claims up with facts and say what it does that the others don't.
 
I can't believe you have used either BFD2 or BFD3 or even superior drummer, they all do what Mdrummer does only a lot better and I think you'll find most people on this forum would agree.
It does depend to quite a large extent whether it's the most realistic acoustic drum sounds your looking for or a more synthetic drum machine sound. I felt that Mdrummer couldn't make up it's mind which it wanted to be.
I would strongly suggest you download the demo of BFD3 and give it a seriously look.
Like Mdrummer though it's not fully featured and has the usual limitations but if you want realistic acoustic drum sounds you won't find anything better.
 
 
Steve
 
 

Not sure about their customer service policies? Nothing yet from Fxpansion? Not sure if this is common or not, I am merely reporting on what is happening to me personally. I have "several" of their products. And have been a customer for many years...

 
I have mentioned on several occasions that it's a bank holiday and you'd be lucky to get a reply before today.
As for their customer service policy I imagine it's much the same as any company which would be to deal with all requests as soon as possible. I don't imagine their policy would be to deliberately ignore requests.
 

It's 5/27? Regardless of "how or when I contacted my vendor? I believe they should be responsive to their customers." When you blame the customer? At some point, is the Vendor not responsible for getting back w/their customer? And at least showing some interest in fixing problems? It seems reasonable to me.

 
Same date different time zone. But my point (again) was that to come on here complaining about being boned by a company when you'd only just opened a support ticket on the same day is way over the top.
It does happen I'm sure that people get a response within hours of their request but in my experience that's very very rare.
Are you saying that all previous requests have been answered within hours because if that's the case you are one seriously lucky customer and probably the only person on this forum who has had such a good experience.
 
=========================
 

Some may be employee's of this company? Or paid by them in some other way? Well, GFY! (Good For You!) I am not? I am merely reporting what is happening to me "as a long time customer?" You/They may choose to react to this information as you would like; However, FXpansion is currently riding me like a co-star in a Ron Jeremey feature film... And not in a way that I enjoy. Note, a long time "friendly customer" to date? With "many" of their products...

 
No I am not an employee of fxpansion but I think they're a great company in terms of product and would love to work for them if given the chance. I am a beta tester for BFD3 though and have been an customer since around 2008.
Like I said the longest I have had to wait was around 4 days which was over a weekend.
It is a P.I.T.A. I agree and if making music was my living I'd be very frustrated at having to wait to be able to use a product I'd already paid for. I've learnt my lesson however and since most of the time people know before hand if they need to upgrade their computer it's always a good idea to ask for new authorisations a week or so in advance.
Forewarned is forearmed as they say.
 

""That suggests to me that you opened a ticket with fxpansion on the same day you posted here accusing them of boning you or have I got that wrong?'"
 
And e-mail response, Mr. Doumass? Is not too much to as for... Mister Dou-mass? Have you ever been boned Mr. Dou-mass? Would you like to be? Because I can hook you up with Fxpansion customer service? They will "go deep..." I can guarantee it.

 
I'm not even sure the above deserves any kind of response given your attitude.
I've tried to help you as best I can but there's only so much I can do and when you start calling me a dumbass you really need to be looking at yourself.
 
 
 
 
Steve
 
 
 

Starise
I knew by the title of the post we were going to open the proverbial "can of worms".So many different opinions. I say just buy them all  :).
 
FWIW I'm a big BFD fan and I've been looking at BFD3.... Hey if they need more beta testers I'm in, but I'm not sure how to go about it. I watched the BFD 3 videos last evening and I have to say only one thing bothers me about the new program. I want a graphic of a real set of drums. I think I understand why Fxspansion did it....to better see the actual drum layout...still I'm hard to convert from seeing a set of drums on my computer. Does it really matter...no, not in theory..but I'm very visual and set in my ways and I would miss seeing a detailed drum graphic. Imagine playing a software keyboard and it's only the outline of the keys...that really sucks. Other than that it looks like a very good program.

 
I'm quite partial to the odd worm
 
I know what you mean about the drum view and when I first saw it I was definitely in the, no way!!! can we have a real drum kit view and not just symbols. I even wanted the the drum image to change in accordance with whatever kit piece was loaded.
The decision to go with the kit(less) view was more to free up resources and make it less demanding on the system. I didn't think graphics would have been enough of an issue to make the difference worth while, but apparently it was.
I thought BFD2 was superb and couldn't come up with many improvements or new features when FXpansion canvassed their users for top things they wanted to see but BFD3 is a major improvement in so many ways.
 
It didn't take me long however to get used to not having a graphic view of a real drum kit.
I did warn them at the time that whilst I could see the reasoning behind it and had come to realise that it really wasn't the issue I'd thought it would have been, for a lot of users, (potential new customers in particular) eye candy is a huge selling point and first impressions are very much visual and I was worried BFD3 had lost the sex appeal that it's predecessor had in abundance, but did they listen? Well, obviously not but it is what it is.
 
Did you happen to catch these videos? Computer Musics BFD3 overview
 
 
I would strongly recommend downloading the demo, although it's very limited you'll get a good feel of what it's about.
 
 
Steve
 
 
 
 

Starise
Thanks Steve,
 
Yes I watched all 7 videos.From what I can see the program is killer in every other way.
I have yet to download the demo, but I will.
 
It's hard to say if I could get accustomed to the sparse drum graphics.

 
For me the sound is ultimately what matters most and I could almost get used to any UI if I thought the sound was that much better than the rest and in the case of BFD3 I genuinely do.
 

I think for me it's more a matter of do I really want to work that way when I don't need to with anything else. It looks like you tried to tell them about it and they decided to go ahead anyway...if I had beta tested I would have  raised the issue.

 
That debate on the beta forum was an interesting one and pretty much split down the middle but a lot of people absolutely love the new stripped down graphics and I actually have grown to like it too now.
It's just the way it's laid out is so much better and quicker than BFD2 it more than compensates.
 

For one thing, the graphic helped a lot to remember the particular kit you might have set up and liked as each kit in most drum programs has a different graphic for the kit. The visual in this case really helps instead of looking at a line of words.

 
You've hit on a good point there and I think the way kits are constructed in BFD3 might be another reason for scrapping the kit images. BFD3 offers you kit building options like no other. You can build a kit with up to 64 kit pieces, you can have 5 kicks, 5 snares, 5 hi-hats or more if you want. This makes it impossible to have a kit image for user defined kits.
If you compare the kit views of BFD3 and BFD2 (BFD3 v BFD2 Kit view comparison) you'll see that you still have the kit piece images in the mixer and in actual fact when you loaded a kit in to BFD2 the kit image remained the same regardless of what kit was loaded. A big improvement IMO with BFD3 is that the kit image is truly representative of how many kit pieces are loaded whereas with BFD2 you would have a lot of empty slots/boxes.
There was even talk initially of scrapping the kit view entirely which caused quite a rumpus but in many ways I could see the logic in it as it's rarely used for anything other than auditioning sounds but I'm glad they kept it.
 
 

Even if they had simply added colours to that one dimensional graphic it would have helped. I fail to see the great advantage of cutting the better graphics when we have faster computers with more memory. I mean when you sell a product how many companies skimp on the packaging?......so I'm not divorcing BFD yet, and I'm petty I know...I'll download the demo and give it my most objective try.

 
I know most of us a running pretty fast DAW's these days but BFD3 is still demanding even on high spec systems so anywhere these things can be reduced reduced they will be. You'd be surprised how many people are trying to run BFD3 on their consumer del laptops.
 

Is there any way at this point to get them to change it?

 
I don't see the old kit view coming back ever but Skot_FX did mention that they would release some different skins at some point in the future which will be interesting. I more interested in hassling him to make a pitch envelope effect which he says is on his to do list. Aside from EZdrummers, tap to find' there is only one thing I have found that I covet in another drum vst  and that's the envelope filter in Addictive Drums.
 
Hope you get to grips with the demo and have lots of fun.
There are of course limitations which are listed here BFD3 FAQ
under, 'Is there a demo version'.
 
Cheers
 
 
Steve
 
 

Thanks Twaddle for taking the time to address my post. I have no doubt that BFD is one of the best of not the best. I have had nothing but good experiences with BFD2.. I think playing with the demo is what I need to do next. I'll then need to decide how important it really is to have a graphic display. I really wish they wouldn't have gone that route, but it's a little late to go back now. The fact that they have some graphic representation, especially the individual kit pieces makes it a little easier....I think if they had eliminated all graphics I would be done with BFD forever...it would be different if there were no other players in the drum market, but we have a lot of choices now.
 
I still think it was a bad decision to do what they did, but crying over that won't change anything. I'm still going to check it out and see if it makes as big a difference as I'm hoping it won't.
 
I never liked the idea of trying to accept something that didn't seem quite right. I am already starting off on the wrong side of it here...I'm hoping I can turn around.

I've enjoyed BFD for many years? However, I must say "they put the F" in BFD... "For me personally? And therefore, I'll be spending my $$ elsewhere, thank you... It's hard to make, and easy to spend? So IMO, people need to earn it...  In several ways, price, performance, and "service..." The 1st two, yeah, it's a no brainer? However, to me? Without #3, they can go "blank" themselves...
 
And in my case? Well... They (FXpansion) have driven me to other providers... I don't care how hot she is? Somewhere, there's someone who's tired of her shiz... And I'm tired of it...

BFD3 is wonderful. I was a very strong fan of BFD2 but BFD3 is just that much better.
 
As to service FXpansion is pretty good. I go back to the DR008 days. Plus with BFD you don't need a drum map. It creates its own. 

SvenArne
I'm sort of interested in BFD3 since Superior 3.0 rumored to not be happening in ever...
 
Question: Can you make the hihat pedal play nice with E-drums? I've got a Roland TD-4K and when I played around with the demo I couldn't get anywhere near a satisfactory performance. The demo kit sounded great but the hihat just wasn't playable. I bought BFD Eco a couple years ago, but I've never really used it since I couldn't get the hihat to work right in there either...
 
The XLN and Toontrack products have always responded pretty much spot on right out of the box!
 
Sven

Hi Sven
 
Are you saying there were problems with the BFD3 demo and your TD-4K ?
 
Did you load the TD-4K keymap ?
 
I know it takes a little setting up and I'm not an edrummer but all the posts and reviews I've read
relating to edrums have been very good and BFD3 is claimed to be a big improvement over BFD2.
 
If you've tried the demo and had problems it could just be a set up issue that someone of the BFD3 forum might be able to sort out. There's also the edrummers forum on the fxpansion site.
 
 
Steve

AT
 
If you just want to do old-style rock n roll, probably look elsewhere, tho.
 

Kontakt player + Abbey Road series. 
 
I hate working with Kontakt and it's got nothing on any of the other drums software, but sound-wise, these are my favorite kits, short of buying BFD and Platinum Samples' Evil Joe Barresi's kits.

twaddle
 
Hi Sven
 
Are you saying there were problems with the BFD3 demo and your TD-4K ?
 
Did you load the TD-4K keymap ?
 
I know it takes a little setting up and I'm not an edrummer but all the posts and reviews I've read
relating to edrums have been very good and BFD3 is claimed to be a big improvement over BFD2.
 
If you've tried the demo and had problems it could just be a set up issue that someone of the BFD3 forum might be able to sort out. There's also the edrummers forum on the fxpansion site.
 
 
Steve

I downloaded the BFD3 Demo again and played around some more. I'm beginning to believe the BFD3 demo is crippled beyond representability!
 
When triggering the hihat pedal note the resulting sample is definitely a stick hit and not a pedal chick. And on top of that said sample varies wildly in volume. This is independent of the loaded keymap. This makes it impossible for me to play a nice feeling groove on the drums with the "pedal" sample poking me in the ear at all times.
 
Furthermore, repeated snare hits sound extremely "machinegunny" and unrealistic at lower velocities. I must only assume that this is a result of the slimming of velocity layers and alternate hit content in the demo.
 
Compared to EZdrummer 2 which I'm also demoing these days, BFD3 feels very poor indeed when played with my Rolands. Not a good way to showcase a flagship product!
 
I hope and expect the full package to be much better, but I just can't buy BFD3 based on this demo, sorry!
 
Sven
 
 

It's really different strokes for different folks I guess? I wasn't looking for an absolute, but rather a relative reference. The problem (as I see it is) people become such champions for what they believe, that they refuse to even hear an opposing opinion? That is unfortunate. Because, I don't know that one is "THAT" much better or worse? Just different things work better for different people (IMO). And it's really a starting point, because of all of the other SW available once the drums are tracked. It's unfortunate, I wasn't trying to start a religious debate? Just trying to see what people like, and why. But I guess that is a religious debate in the end. 

Superior Drummer just updated to 2.4 yesterday. No real improvements sound wise. It just makes it capable of playing the EZD2 kits and there are upgrades for the older versions of EZD1 kits. Maybe there is some stirring around at Toontrack to work on version 3. I never had EZD so to me there was no reason to get it. EZD2 looks interesting but not enough to spend money. I have the old BFD Eco that I play around with from time to time and I have played with BFD 3 at a friends' studio. I like BFD but not enough to pay $150 just to jump from Eco to 3. I have AD1 and 2. 2 just doesn't sound as good as 1 to my ear. Maybe it's because the kits are the same as the ones that came in one just broken into separate downloads. It just doesn't have the fidelity that 1 has. I'm sure the newer kits sampled for AD2 will sound better. I'm still hanging in there with Superior for now.

TheBand19, In looking at your very first post, I am inclined to agree with twaddle.Are you giving Fxpansion enough slack?.....customer service at a large company can sometimes be overwhelming in trying to address each individual need,and for something they already sold and made a profit on long ago. Most of them do a pretty good job, but sometimes they might need an extra nudge. I wouldn't give up on them if you like their products. I don't think they intentionally make things difficult for customers. I would be willing to bet that they would work with you if they know the situation.
 
It seems as if you might be considering jumping ship...if you do that and find something else, that's great, but I don't think you'll find any better sounding drums than BFD IMO.

Sorry, wrong post

twaddle
Aha, I've just discovered that this particular hi-hat seems to have no pedal articulation as well as a couple of others that are missing. that seems a bit daft if you ask me and not sure what their reasoning would be as for edrummers like your self that kind of thing makes a big difference but rest assured the Paiste signature hi-hat I have has 13 articulations.

Hope that helps if only to stop you wasting time trying to get it set up right.


Steve

Thanks for clearing that up for me! Pretty silly to leave out the pedal sample if you ask me! While googling I found this thread on the Vdrums forum:
 
http://www.vdrums.com/forum/forum/advanced/vst-samples/69131-bfd3-official-thread/page3
 
Looks like those who have tried the demo have a lot of the same complaints as I do, while those who've actually bought the product seem very happy!
 
I wish the demo were better so I wouldn't need to take such a leap of faith! They should've included only one kit but fleshed that one out properly!