Helpful ReplyWhat is "missing" in Reaper DAW?

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Metaclass
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Re: What is "missing" in Reaper DAW? 2017/12/17 23:47:45 (permalink)
I switched to RReaper. You know, Its alsoms thw ONLY Daew that can do what SONAR did : to record over the same track, with previous recorded audio, an dbe able to also listen to ausio previous recorded, same time you do now recording as a "dubbing/ overlay". I was very surprised to find that onsly Reaper had this feature. And thats something I would NEVER compromize. I  a MUSt feature for me as a singer , guitarist :) and its developpend and driven by enthusiasts, Not Big Buck industry - overrated "thieves" ;)
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Pictus
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Re: What is "missing" in Reaper DAW? 2017/12/18 01:57:14 (permalink)
Reaper is going to support ARA2
forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=200297
 

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the_user_formally_known_as_glennbo
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Re: What is "missing" in Reaper DAW? 2017/12/18 04:54:11 (permalink)
Pictus
Reaper is going to support ARA2
forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=200297



Yep. Schwa has been in close contact with Celemony, and it sounds like ARA2 is right around the corner, so REAPER will soon have not only the coveted ARA that everyone bows down to, but the second generation of it, which unfortunately Sonar will never have.

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Metaclass
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Re: What is "missing" in Reaper DAW? 2017/12/18 15:08:33 (permalink)
Melodyne and vocal correcting software, is somthing that will never be used in my studio. I will rather look for another job, or go back to carpenting, then "go to bed" with these kind of cheating-trick . If you cant sing ; stay out of a stduio, and do something else !
#34
kevmsmith81
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Re: What is "missing" in Reaper DAW? 2017/12/18 15:25:07 (permalink)
cecelius2
Hi:  I know some of you have highly recommended Reaper as an alternative DAW for Sonar.  I have never used it, but am now thinking about it as an alternative DAW.  I love Sonar, like Cubase, tolerate Studio One, and use Mixbus for final mix/masters.  I have downloaded Reaper and am viewing some of the tutorial videos on Reaper.  However, I wonder what is not found in Reaper that is found in Sonar, or Cubase, or even Studio One?
 
Question:   Can some of you let me know what are the weaknesses with Reaper?  or (more relevant to the announcement that Sonar is being discontinued) What is missing in Reaper that is found in Sonar?
 
Thanks
 
C2
 




The main thing it's missing, based on my experience so far, is a large bulk of third party plugins.  This is likely how the price is kept so low for Reaper. 
 
No ARA integration currently (so you can't use Melodyne in the same way as you would with SONAR), however this is coming soon apparently.
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the_user_formally_known_as_glennbo
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Re: What is "missing" in Reaper DAW? 2017/12/18 15:26:58 (permalink)
Metaclass
Melodyne and vocal correcting software, is somthing that will never be used in my studio. I will rather look for another job, or go back to carpenting, then "go to bed" with these kind of cheating-trick . If you cant sing ; stay out of a stduio, and do something else !




While I really don't care at all if REAPER gets ARA/ARA2, I'm glad they are putting it into the software so that Cakers might get to use REAPER, and not feel like they are losing even more than just their main DAW software.
 
That said, REAPER does include a pitch correction plug that does straight pitch correction, but I never use it. You can also put a pitch envelope on audio clips, and I have used that a few times, to fix one slightly flat or sharp vocal note in an otherwise good take.

Glennbo
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#36
kevmsmith81
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Re: What is "missing" in Reaper DAW? 2017/12/18 15:29:27 (permalink)
Metaclass
Melodyne and vocal correcting software, is somthing that will never be used in my studio. I will rather look for another job, or go back to carpenting, then "go to bed" with these kind of cheating-trick . If you cant sing ; stay out of a stduio, and do something else !




That's kind of a narrow view.  Given almost every major recording artist uses some form of pitch correction these days, I don't see the problem in using it.  It doesn't have to be over the top, you can use it to correct one or two off notes in an otherwise excellent performance.
#37
the_user_formally_known_as_glennbo
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Re: What is "missing" in Reaper DAW? 2017/12/18 15:46:04 (permalink)
kevmsmith81
Metaclass
Melodyne and vocal correcting software, is somthing that will never be used in my studio. I will rather look for another job, or go back to carpenting, then "go to bed" with these kind of cheating-trick . If you cant sing ; stay out of a stduio, and do something else !




That's kind of a narrow view.  Given almost every major recording artist uses some form of pitch correction these days, I don't see the problem in using it.  It doesn't have to be over the top, you can use it to correct one or two off notes in an otherwise excellent performance.




Not only that, but even the Beatles used studio tricks, like pasting recordings from two different sessions together, changing their speed, cutting tape up and throwing it into the air, to be spliced back together randomly.
 
I much prefer an honest recording of a good performance, and that's what I try to achieve in my studio, but using a pitch envelope on one note doesn't invalidate the recording in my mind.  Yeah, I could do more takes until that one bum note was on the money, but at how much time burned?  I know I could do takes until I got the one, but in the case of minor tuning problems, I will sometimes fix it in the mix, so I can get on to recording the next tracks.
 
For me it's a balance of honesty and efficiency.  If you are correcting almost every note and changing the phrasing so it no longer resembles the original recording, then your pendulum has swung too far to the fix it side of the equation, and your music has lost it's honesty and integrity IMHO. Fixing something that you *could* have sung or played OTOH for time efficiency has not.
 

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#38
kevmsmith81
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Re: What is "missing" in Reaper DAW? 2017/12/18 15:51:59 (permalink)
the_user_formally_known_as_glennbo
kevmsmith81
Metaclass
Melodyne and vocal correcting software, is somthing that will never be used in my studio. I will rather look for another job, or go back to carpenting, then "go to bed" with these kind of cheating-trick . If you cant sing ; stay out of a stduio, and do something else !




That's kind of a narrow view.  Given almost every major recording artist uses some form of pitch correction these days, I don't see the problem in using it.  It doesn't have to be over the top, you can use it to correct one or two off notes in an otherwise excellent performance.




Not only that, but even the Beatles used studio tricks, like pasting recordings from two different sessions together, changing their speed, cutting tape up and throwing it into the air, to be spliced back together randomly.
 
I much prefer an honest recording of a good performance, and that's what I try to achieve in my studio, but using a pitch envelope on one note doesn't invalidate the recording in my mind.  Yeah, I could do more takes until that one bum note was on the money, but at how much time burned?  I know I could do takes until I got the one, but in the case of minor tuning problems, I will sometimes fix it in the mix, so I can get on to recording the next tracks.
 
For me it's a balance of honesty and efficiency.  If you are correcting almost every note and changing the phrasing so it no longer resembles the original recording, then your pendulum has swung too far to the fix it side of the equation, and your music has lost it's honesty and integrity IMHO. Fixing something that you *could* have sung or played OTOH for time efficiency has not.
 




Agree with this. 
 
However, I also see no issue with "over-use" of it as an Artistic approach, such as done by the likes of Kanye West, T-Pain, Cher etc.  It's all down to personal preference, really.
#39
the_user_formally_known_as_glennbo
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Re: What is "missing" in Reaper DAW? 2017/12/18 16:09:32 (permalink)
kevmsmith81
the_user_formally_known_as_glennbo
For me it's a balance of honesty and efficiency.  If you are correcting almost every note and changing the phrasing so it no longer resembles the original recording, then your pendulum has swung too far to the fix it side of the equation, and your music has lost it's honesty and integrity IMHO. Fixing something that you *could* have sung or played OTOH for time efficiency has not.



Agree with this. 
 
However, I also see no issue with "over-use" of it as an Artistic approach, such as done by the likes of Kanye West, T-Pain, Cher etc.  It's all down to personal preference, really.



Difference between the examples you site is that Cher could actually sing the part without any tuning software. 
 
She was recording vocals way back in time when no "artist helper" software even existed.   ;)

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#40
kevmsmith81
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Re: What is "missing" in Reaper DAW? 2017/12/18 16:19:47 (permalink)
the_user_formally_known_as_glennbo
kevmsmith81
the_user_formally_known_as_glennbo
For me it's a balance of honesty and efficiency.  If you are correcting almost every note and changing the phrasing so it no longer resembles the original recording, then your pendulum has swung too far to the fix it side of the equation, and your music has lost it's honesty and integrity IMHO. Fixing something that you *could* have sung or played OTOH for time efficiency has not.



Agree with this. 
 
However, I also see no issue with "over-use" of it as an Artistic approach, such as done by the likes of Kanye West, T-Pain, Cher etc.  It's all down to personal preference, really.



Difference between the examples you site is that Cher could actually sing the part without any tuning software. 
 
She was recording vocals way back in time when no "artist helper" software even existed.   ;)




Yeah, I know that.  I was just using that as an example for a well known artistic use of Autotune technology (and in fairness, the first that I'm aware of).
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DeeringAmps
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Re: What is "missing" in Reaper DAW? 2017/12/18 16:56:26 (permalink)
Given almost every major recording artist uses some form of dangerous narcotic
Not a "good" reason to blindly follow suit!
Just sayin'...
 
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#42
kevmsmith81
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Re: What is "missing" in Reaper DAW? 2017/12/18 16:58:00 (permalink)
DeeringAmps
Given almost every major recording artist uses some form of dangerous narcotic
Not a "good" reason to blindly follow suit!
Just sayin'...
 
T




There's a difference between using drugs and using tools to assist with music production.  :p
#43
jbraner
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Re: What is "missing" in Reaper DAW? 2017/12/18 17:00:55 (permalink)
Too many posts to quote.
 
Melodyne does a lot more than pitch and timing correction.
You can also extract tempo changes from an audio file, and also extract MIDI note info from an audio file.
And if you want, you can mess around with partials and do "sound design".
 
It's way more than a "autotune" ;-)

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DeeringAmps
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Re: What is "missing" in Reaper DAW? 2017/12/18 17:03:48 (permalink)
Both are a "slippery slope".
But, you know what they say about opinions...
And I must admit I am very opinionated.
I think arbitrarily "fixing" pitch and timing is the "fast track" to pulling the life out your music.
Like most "spices", use sparingly.
But again, its just my nickel98 on the subject.
 
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#45
azslow3
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Re: What is "missing" in Reaper DAW? 2017/12/18 17:25:14 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Soundwise 2017/12/29 19:50:44
DeeringAmps
I think arbitrarily "fixing" pitch and timing is the "fast track" to pulling the life out your music.

When typewriters was replaced by computers, people have started to "fix" typos instead of re-typing the whole page of important document.
There is more "life" in real instruments, but people use Kontakt not only for "new type of sound" synth.


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#46
the_user_formally_known_as_glennbo
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Re: What is "missing" in Reaper DAW? 2017/12/18 17:33:46 (permalink)
jbraner
Too many posts to quote.
 
Melodyne does a lot more than pitch and timing correction.
You can also extract tempo changes from an audio file, and also extract MIDI note info from an audio file.
And if you want, you can mess around with partials and do "sound design".
 
It's way more than a "autotune" ;-)




I guess my thoughts on the subject are, of all the things it CAN do, which ones are the ones I NEED for something like that to do, and the answer for me always come up NONE. That's not to say that my way is right and everybody else's is wrong. It's just the way I roll.  I'd never need to extract tempo changes from an audio file because any audio file I'm working with is something that I recorded, and the tempo will be how I wanted it. I actually have at least a couple tools in my toolbox now that can convert audio pitches to MIDI, but the times I've needed to do that equal zero.
 
Still, I'm not saying that other people should do what I do, and that's why I'm happy that ARA2 is coming to REAPER very soon. Folks who need or want that, will get it, and since I'm not waiting for Cockos to fix some bug that's been in REAPER for ten years and never looked at, I don't care if they spend some time implementing it.
 

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#47
the_user_formally_known_as_glennbo
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Re: What is "missing" in Reaper DAW? 2017/12/18 17:37:53 (permalink)
azslow3
DeeringAmps
I think arbitrarily "fixing" pitch and timing is the "fast track" to pulling the life out your music.

When typewriters was replaced by computers, people have started to "fix" typos instead of re-typing the whole page of important document.
There is more "life" in real instruments, but people use Kontakt not only for "new type of sound" synth.





I use Liquid Paper to fix my pitch or timing issues!
 


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#48
ThSch
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Re: What is "missing" in Reaper DAW? 2017/12/27 15:11:53 (permalink)
dubdisciple
(...)
I don't believe it has integrated Melodyne support.
...)



There is a plug-in called Reatune which seems to be very useful (you can watch a video about it in "Resources / Video / FX & Plugins / Fx & Plugins)


 
 
#49
michael diemer
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Re: What is "missing" in Reaper DAW? 2017/12/27 17:48:17 (permalink)
I like Reaper, I've been using it for the past year and a half, doing symphonic stuff (yeah it can do that). Then I remembered I had Studio 8.5, so I reinstalled it (my Producer 8.5 didn't work right for some reason). So now I'm able to compare the two. My workflow is definitely faster in Sonar.
 
What I miss the most is, being able to click on icons for the various views, and they come up as whole page views. So much easier than the docking views in Reaper. (Although it wouldn't surprise me if you could make Reaper do that, as it's infinitely customizable. But not everyone is good at that).

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#50
BobF
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Re: What is "missing" in Reaper DAW? 2017/12/27 18:48:35 (permalink)
michael diemer
I like Reaper, I've been using it for the past year and a half, doing symphonic stuff (yeah it can do that). Then I remembered I had Studio 8.5, so I reinstalled it (my Producer 8.5 didn't work right for some reason). So now I'm able to compare the two. My workflow is definitely faster in Sonar.
 
What I miss the most is, being able to click on icons for the various views, and they come up as whole page views. So much easier than the docking views in Reaper. (Although it wouldn't surprise me if you could make Reaper do that, as it's infinitely customizable. But not everyone is good at that).




I bet you could do a quick set of custom actions bound to buttons and/or context menus to handle that.

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#51
the_user_formally_known_as_glennbo
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Re: What is "missing" in Reaper DAW? 2017/12/27 19:40:11 (permalink)
BobF
michael diemer
I like Reaper, I've been using it for the past year and a half, doing symphonic stuff (yeah it can do that). Then I remembered I had Studio 8.5, so I reinstalled it (my Producer 8.5 didn't work right for some reason). So now I'm able to compare the two. My workflow is definitely faster in Sonar.
 
What I miss the most is, being able to click on icons for the various views, and they come up as whole page views. So much easier than the docking views in Reaper. (Although it wouldn't surprise me if you could make Reaper do that, as it's infinitely customizable. But not everyone is good at that).




I bet you could do a quick set of custom actions bound to buttons and/or context menus to handle that.




You can setup screensets in REAPER too, although I've never used them. Looks like <Ctrl+E> brings up a panel where you can set or select a screenset.  The thing that keeps me using REAPER, and NOT going back to Sonar is being able to run my projects start to finish at 64 samples latency, even with more than 100 plugins. I've tracked guitar through Guitar Rig on 26 track projects with 100 FX at the *very end* of the project, and REAPER is still running low enough latency to play through Guitar Rig that late in the game. No silly increasing buffers or latency at the end of the project so it won't crap out and have pops, clicks, or complete stalls.

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#52
emwhy
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Re: What is "missing" in Reaper DAW? 2017/12/27 20:37:51 (permalink)
A dedicated smart tool would be nice. I know you can do a lot of customizing and set up tool bars to kind of get around it. But something simple like the mute/erase tool in SONAR would help a lot. I've done some basic mixes and projects with REAPER while learning it at the same time and it's good to know ARA is coming. But I really would like a smart tool....even Pro Tools has that.
 
 
#53
Marshall
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Re: What is "missing" in Reaper DAW? 2017/12/27 20:39:12 (permalink)
Metaclass
I switched to RReaper. You know, Its alsoms thw ONLY Daew that can do what SONAR did : to record over the same track, with previous recorded audio, an dbe able to also listen to ausio previous recorded, same time you do now recording as a "dubbing/ overlay". I was very surprised to find that onsly Reaper had this feature. And thats something I would NEVER compromize. I  a MUSt feature for me as a singer , guitarist :) and its developpend and driven by enthusiasts, Not Big Buck industry - overrated "thieves" ;)


Can someone confirm this? He is referring to Sound on Sound recording mode in Sonar. For me, it's the only thing missing in Studio One.
#54
michael diemer
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Re: What is "missing" in Reaper DAW? 2017/12/27 20:40:00 (permalink)
Thanks for the tips, Bob, and user formerly known as Glenn. I'll keep them in mind.

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#55
the_user_formally_known_as_glennbo
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Re: What is "missing" in Reaper DAW? 2017/12/27 21:03:37 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Marshall 2017/12/27 21:15:03
Marshall
Metaclass
I switched to RReaper. You know, Its alsoms thw ONLY Daew that can do what SONAR did : to record over the same track, with previous recorded audio, an dbe able to also listen to ausio previous recorded, same time you do now recording as a "dubbing/ overlay". I was very surprised to find that onsly Reaper had this feature. And thats something I would NEVER compromize. I  a MUSt feature for me as a singer , guitarist :) and its developpend and driven by enthusiasts, Not Big Buck industry - overrated "thieves" ;)


Can someone confirm this? He is referring to Sound on Sound recording mode in Sonar. For me, it's the only thing missing in Studio One.



You can record "sound-on-sound" with both audio and MIDI in REAPER. It's the default behavior I have setup in my startup template. If I record a track with Superior Drummer 2 from my keyboard, I can then record again on the same track and add more drum parts, hearing both as I lay down the new.
 
If you have take looping happening though, with both audio or MIDI, you only hear the current part you are laying down, because you want to hear the current take, and not 10 previous ones while using the take system.  I don't really use takes myself, but I do frequently lay multiple MIDI or audio parts down on the same track, and they will all play, but be individual clips that can each be modified in a lot of different ways if you want.
 
For instance, if you laid a MIDI drum part down that was straight hihat, you could quantize it, but not quantize the next clip which might be kick and snare. Same way with audio clips, except you might be putting an effect on one clip that will not be present on any of the other audio clips on the same track. I use that a lot for adding a special effect that I want to be isolated to one item out of many that are all on one track.

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#56
Michael A.D.
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Re: What is "missing" in Reaper DAW? 2017/12/28 14:41:22 (permalink)
What is really missing in Reaper is "Turning it on for the first time and knowing how to use it".
 
Most DAWs are more intuitive but once you dig into Reaper you will find, what I believe, is the most powerful DAW in the market.  But it takes a certain type of person to dig Reaper.
 
Let me put it this way:
 
Reaper is to most DAWs
as
PC Gaming is to XBox, Playstation, Switch, etc.
 
Obviously there is a big market for those gaming consoles - just turn 'em on, plug in your cartridge, and you are ready to go.  But PC gamers are enthusiasts who run systems that are much more complicated that outperform the consoles.
 
I see many comments on the other threads that Reaper cannot do this or that, but in fact those folks have not figured out how to make Reaper do what they want.   You can create custom actions/interfaces that will let you create a workflow that no other DAW can supply.  But you have to be an enthusiast, you have to enjoy creating something that is going to be unique to your needs.  And that is the beauty and power of Reaper.
#57
jbraner
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Re: What is "missing" in Reaper DAW? 2017/12/28 17:11:26 (permalink)
But you have to be an enthusiast, you have to enjoy creating something that is going to be unique to your needs.  And that is the beauty and power of Reaper.

 
As someone who is "just getting aquainted with" Reaper - that sounds exatly right.
It's kind of like linux in that you know it can probably do what you want it to - you just have to figure out *how*
 
I'm not afraid to tweak, and mess around - but hopefully, after I get it set up (just the way I like it) I can just "forget it" and worry about recording guitar parts etc
 

John Braner
https://www.cdbaby.com/Artist/JohnBraner
http://www.soundclick.com/johnbraner
 
- Intel i7 3770K 3.5GHz
- Windows 10 Pro - 64 bit
- Cakewalk by BandLab x64
- Reaper x64
- 16GB RAM
- Asus P8z77-V mobo - using the integrated Intel graphic card (HD4000)
- MOTU Ultralite AVB audio interface
I usually use ASIO set at 64 or 128 samples
er - that's it I think...
#58
the_user_formally_known_as_glennbo
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Re: What is "missing" in Reaper DAW? 2017/12/28 18:44:48 (permalink)
jbraner
But you have to be an enthusiast, you have to enjoy creating something that is going to be unique to your needs.  And that is the beauty and power of Reaper.

 
As someone who is "just getting aquainted with" Reaper - that sounds exatly right.
It's kind of like linux in that you know it can probably do what you want it to - you just have to figure out *how*
 
I'm not afraid to tweak, and mess around - but hopefully, after I get it set up (just the way I like it) I can just "forget it" and worry about recording guitar parts etc
 


Don't be shy about asking questions on REAPER's forum. I did when I first started using it. One of the first things I remember asking was "how can I record on the same track and not kill what was previously recorded". I write and record at the same time, so I'll work up a bit on bass or guitar, and record it, not knowing what comes next. Then I like to punch into record on the same track, but a measure or two before the spot where the new part will go, so that when the transition happens, it sounds natural like I played through the section, rather than punched in dead on the money where that section begins. In essence, I record overlapping clips on the same track and the default behavior was to overwrite, which I didn't want, so I asked on the forum and instantly got the answer I needed to make it work like I was used to working in Sonar. My default startup template is setup so that both audio and MIDI can be recorded with overlapping clips, which I still need today.

Glennbo
---------------------------------------------------------
http://soundclick.com/glennbo
 
#59
jbraner
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Re: What is "missing" in Reaper DAW? 2017/12/28 22:22:56 (permalink)
Oh, I've been asking away!
 
I've been playing around finding a theme that I like, and tweaking it a little, and then playing with layouts and screensets - to get a comfortable environment.
It doesn't have to be like SONAR - but I'm just trying to get to know where everything is.
 
I've got a sore head, so I'm ready to go back to SONAR for a little while and just play music.
 
Then I'll come back to Reaper, and work on it a little more.
 

John Braner
https://www.cdbaby.com/Artist/JohnBraner
http://www.soundclick.com/johnbraner
 
- Intel i7 3770K 3.5GHz
- Windows 10 Pro - 64 bit
- Cakewalk by BandLab x64
- Reaper x64
- 16GB RAM
- Asus P8z77-V mobo - using the integrated Intel graphic card (HD4000)
- MOTU Ultralite AVB audio interface
I usually use ASIO set at 64 or 128 samples
er - that's it I think...
#60
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