tKx5050
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 221
- Joined: 2012/09/10 16:38:51
- Status: offline
Re:What is that strange light in my channel strip doing?
2012/11/23 12:20:48
(permalink)
As Jonbouy says, there's nothing inherently wrong with boosting. "Cut don't Boost" is just good advice from the experienced to keep all of us just learning (where I'm at) from falling into the "Louder=Better" trap.
Don't know how many times I've overcooked a track thinking it's the best thing since sliced bread only to listen the next day and wonder what the **** I was thinking.
Steve Sonar Platinum, Quad-Capture, I7-3770, 32Gb
|
sharke
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 13933
- Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re:What is that strange light in my channel strip doing?
2012/11/23 12:24:44
(permalink)
I hear you on the distractions! In my building there is invariably someone blasting some crappy hip hop at floor vibrating volumes, or someone slamming their front door, or some couple having a domestic. Then outside in the street there are these drunken old losers who do nothing but stand on the same corner and scream and yell and cackle and fight. People who have quiet soundproofed studios don't know how good they have it!
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re:What is that strange light in my channel strip doing?
2012/11/23 12:26:14
(permalink)
Yeah, I've been guilty of that in the past. I don't seem to destroy anything much these days. Sometimes I'll make things a little too crisp of mid-dy but that usually happens when I've spent too much time in front of the monitors and my ears are tired. I try to take a break every 15 minutes or so when mixing to keep that under control. Seems to work rather well.
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re:What is that strange light in my channel strip doing?
2012/11/23 12:28:29
(permalink)
@sharke... Sounds like my old hood. I was also flanked by bars, the house was constantly under noisy construction and near the end there were crazy festivals happening all the time. It was fun for a while but eventually it just got nerve wracking. I can't handle any kind of noise now.
|
jb101
Max Output Level: -46 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2946
- Joined: 2011/12/04 05:26:10
- Status: offline
Re:What is that strange light in my channel strip doing?
2012/11/23 19:35:21
(permalink)
Just a quick note on EQ. These are only generalisations.
It is GENERALLY better to cut than EQ, it doesn't mean you should NEVER boost. Certainly if you're looking for a natural sound and a balanced mix.
If boosting, it is better to use a wider frequency band (Q), if cutting, it is better to use a narrow band (Q). That's why the hybrid QuadEQ is set the way it is.
If you boost frequency on one instrument, it's a good idea to cut a similar frequency in another competing instrument. It's often about making space for each other.
I picked up a tip from Scott G. that I now use all the time. Set the plot resolution of the QuadEQ to 6dB. It defaults to Auto. If it's set to Auto, it is not easy to compare the different track's EQ at a glance. The graphs may look a similar shape, but one may be boosting 4dB, and another 18dB. If you set it to six dB, then yo get an idea o the relative cuts and boosts, plus it also warns you if you are making more than a 6 dB alteration. If you are, it MAY be worth looking at the source material, regardless of what others may say.
I didn't say NEVER boost, I add subtle boosts all the time, just be aware, as tkx5050 pointed out, that louder can be perceived as better.
Also beware of the solo button. It's best to listen in context of the mix.
There are lots of other pointers that I found helped with EQ, but these are just the ones relating to cutting and boosting.
|
jb101
Max Output Level: -46 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2946
- Joined: 2011/12/04 05:26:10
- Status: offline
Re:What is that strange light in my channel strip doing?
2012/11/23 19:53:11
(permalink)
One more thing. As an alternative to boosting, try adding a little saturation to the sound. I like the Sat Knob for this.
On a vocal, for example, adding saturation to the high frequencies ("keep high" on the sat knob) can bring the vocal through the mix better than an EQ boost, but not turn it into 21st Century Schizoid man.
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re:What is that strange light in my channel strip doing?
2012/11/23 21:55:20
(permalink)
Jonbouy
I wouldn't worry too much about what you've must have heard from elsewhere about boosts being a bad thing, it's one of those mythical 'don't do's' seem to arise out of nowhere.
Actually it did come out of somewhere, but the origins are lost in the mists of recording antiquity  . "Cut, don't boost" was a valid guideline back in the days of analog EQs and mixers, as we didn't have 64-bit processing engines with virtually unlimited headroom. Furthermore, unlike digital which becomes more distorted at lower levels, with analog distortion always increased at higher levels. So, is that rule still valid with digital? Technologically, not really. However, there are still instances where cutting means only one parameter change, as opposed to boosting that would require two parameter changes. For example, I get a lot of material in for mastering that's "muddy" in the 400Hz range or so. Cutting just a tiny bit there solves the problem more easily than boosting above and below 400Hz.
|
The Maillard Reaction
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 31918
- Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
- Status: offline
Re:What is that strange light in my channel strip doing?
2012/11/24 07:02:30
(permalink)
Thank you Craig.
The other, related, issue was that boosting in analog usually increased the SNR on the output.
best regards,
mike
|
stevec
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 11546
- Joined: 2003/11/04 15:05:54
- Location: Parkesburg, PA
- Status: offline
Re:What is that strange light in my channel strip doing?
2012/11/24 10:48:43
(permalink)
If boosting, it is better to use a wider frequency band (Q), if cutting, it is better to use a narrow band (Q). That's why the hybrid QuadEQ is set the way it is. Gotta love the Hybrid mode!  I find myself using the QuadCurve for everything. I picked up a tip from Scott G. that I now use all the time. Set the plot resolution of the QuadEQ to 6dB. It defaults to Auto. If it's set to Auto, it is not easy to compare the different track's EQ at a glance. The graphs may look a similar shape, but one may be boosting 4dB, and another 18dB. If you set it to six dB, then yo get an idea o the relative cuts and boosts, plus it also warns you if you are making more than a 6 dB alteration. If you are, it MAY be worth looking at the source material, regardless of what others may say. +1 The default, for me, is too "zoomed out" for precision use. Plus, I find that dragging the nodes is much more responsive at the 6dB plot size. One more thing. As an alternative to boosting, try adding a little saturation to the sound. I like the Sat Knob for this. On a vocal, for example, adding saturation to the high frequencies ("keep high" on the sat knob) I'd have to check to be sure, but I think the two "keep" modes are actually maintaining a clean signal through those frequency ranges (wherever the crossover is set) and only affecting the opposite range. So "Keep High" would only saturate the low end, and "Keep Low" would only saturate the high end. The third mode saturates the entire frequency range.
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re:What is that strange light in my channel strip doing?
2012/11/24 10:53:08
(permalink)
This is all very confusing for me but fascinating and useful. Can't wait to really dig into it. A few more weeks and I should be able to focus all my attention on learning. If you guys think I absorbed a lot of knowledge in the past six months imagine what I'll be able to accomplish without any distractions and not having to tear down my DAW after every session.
|
stevec
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 11546
- Joined: 2003/11/04 15:05:54
- Location: Parkesburg, PA
- Status: offline
Re:What is that strange light in my channel strip doing?
2012/11/24 11:02:18
(permalink)
...and not having to tear down my DAW after every session Err... I wouldn't get anything done!
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re:What is that strange light in my channel strip doing?
2012/11/24 11:21:23
(permalink)
Err... I wouldn't get anything done! It's not as bad as when I first started and I literally had put everything back into a closet every night but I still have to move my monitors, trackball, keyboard, etc out of the way. Also the way my current room is set up I have to unhook my mics to get out of my room to use the can or go have a smoke. Not very efficient. I also can't use any of my hardware like my mixer and fancy guitar head and I can only have either my padKontrol or keyboard controller set up at one time. Haven't even touched my DX-7 since I've been here. It is an enormous pain to get anything done. New room is gonna rock. Tons of room for everything, no people bugging me every couple hours (I hope), no phones ringing off the hook, no noisy fans blasting away, no stomping and banging coming from upstairs and I'll also have an awesome view for inspiration. Paradise.
|
jb101
Max Output Level: -46 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2946
- Joined: 2011/12/04 05:26:10
- Status: offline
Re:What is that strange light in my channel strip doing?
2012/11/24 16:32:05
(permalink)
stevec
I'd have to check to be sure, but I think the two "keep" modes are actually maintaining a clean signal through those frequency ranges (wherever the crossover is set) and only affecting the opposite range. So "Keep High" would only saturate the low end, and "Keep Low" would only saturate the high end. The third mode saturates the entire frequency range.
Just have a listen to what happens when you switch the knob from low to high, that should tell you.
|
sharke
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 13933
- Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re:What is that strange light in my channel strip doing?
2012/11/26 01:02:53
(permalink)
I've actually been having much frustration trying to keep the master ProChannel from overheating. Does anyone else here feel like these ProChannels are too sensitive? Of course I have no idea what I'm talking about...
...But it just seems like when using ProChannels, everything I'm doing has to be turned way down. The synth's output is cut dramatically (Z3TA I'm having to cut down to 25% or so). Outputs on FX chain effects and PC modules have to be turned way down as well. Sometimes I'll find that a not particularly loud synth will be overheating the master ProChannel, even when everything's turned down. So I turn it down some more, until it's barely audible. Then I figure I'll turn everything else down as well.
By the end of it, when I've turned everything down to prevent the master ProChannel overheating, and all the track's ProChannels are nowhere near overheating, the overall output of the master bus seems to be a lot lower than it would have been if I wasn't using the master ProChannel at all. Even with the master slider at 0dB, peak levels seem too low.
And the annoying thing is, the overheating of the ProChannel (for me anyway) is invariably caused by one pesky note of a synth part (which doesn't even seem louder than the rest). I see that red light come on very briefly, and it doesn't even seem to coincide with any loud event.
I wish I knew more about this ProChannel and gain staging business. I seem to be spending way too much time worrying about that red light during the mixing stage.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
|
Teds_Studio
Max Output Level: -75 dBFS
- Total Posts : 761
- Joined: 2011/12/21 01:00:42
- Location: AR
- Status: offline
Re:What is that strange light in my channel strip doing?
2012/11/26 01:57:44
(permalink)
sharke
I hear you on the distractions! In my building there is invariably someone blasting some crappy hip hop at floor vibrating volumes, or someone slamming their front door, or some couple having a domestic. Then outside in the street there are these drunken old losers who do nothing but stand on the same corner and scream and yell and cackle and fight. People who have quiet soundproofed studios don't know how good they have it!
That would definitely be frustrating to deal with that much "outside" noise. I built an underground house back in 2001 and my studio is in one end of the house, separated from the rest of the house and has it's own central A/C. I also built the house about 200' off the street, kind of back in the woods. So noise has never been much of a problem for me.
ASRock X99 Extreme4 MB....Gigabyte GeForce GTX 960 4 GB DDR 5.....Intel i7 5820k 3.3 Ghz....Corsair RM850i power supply....3 Seagate 1TB SATA III drives....32 Gig G.Skill Ripjaws DDR4 3000.....Win 10 Pro.....Sonar X1 Producer Exp & X2, X3...Platinum....Superior Drummer 2 & 3 w/ N.Y. Vol 2 SDX.....Sony VEGAS Pro 11.0 32 & 64 bit Pro 12.....Sony VX2100.....Sony HVR-Z7U....Sony HDR-CX130....Alesis HD24....Behringer X32 console....Focusrite 18i20....JBL LSR2328P studio monitors with LSR2310P sub.
|