Helpful ReplyWhat's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI?

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hbarton
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2017/11/25 06:19:28 (permalink)
mixmkr
hbarton
mixmkr
thx Bit... 
I imagine at the Presonus forums...there's going to be a flood of these "newbie" type questions, from people exhausted from reading the manual and just want a quick, clear answer!!
 
What would be cool over there is a "I'm from Sonar DAW" subgroup.  Fielding all these basic questions that are hidden deep in the bowels of the program.
Hard to stop messing with S1 but gotta hop on the BLack Friday stuff too.   All these new toys...


Hi,
I will make the suggestion over on the Presonus forum. I'm not a Studio One tech but will try to help where I can answer a question when I can. Since it is the holiday many from Presonus probably took a well deserved long weekend (but there are still some holding the fort it seems). I did notice that one of the moderators (jpettit) set up a greeting page here:
https://forums.presonus.com/viewtopic.php?f=151&t=27570&p=153954#p153954
That was a nice welcome.   I'm anxious, to say the least.  Will probably wait to see if there is a cross over price, but I'm ready.  I hate to say goodbye to Sonar, but it's like getting something new and the old just doesn't seem as needed.  S1 was a fairly easy learning curve and that's been very beneficial.
 
Probably will not answer all questions, but be a good subgroup starting point for a folks coming from Cake.


That was a nice welcome letter.  I'm getting more and more excited about S1 each time I use it.  The learning curve isn't really all that hard, which is a blessing.  There's some good stuff in there that's new.  The future looks good.


Hi again,
 
I just got a PM from one of the moderators over on the Presonus site and they are planning on setting some things up on the Presonus Site for you guys and gals early next week. Keep trying the Demos, but you might want to hold questions until things are set up over there. Questions and answers are getting scattered quite a bit on this site - and by next week the cavalry should return  (plus if this site goes away, all that info will be lost ).
 
Take care,
h
#61
Midiboy
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2017/11/25 13:13:34 (permalink)
The only thing I haven't really figured out that I really want to is how to "tie" notes together in step sequence mode.  How do I make a note longer than a whole note, for example.  This is kind of annoying to me. 

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#62
mixmkr
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2017/11/25 14:24:06 (permalink)
Hbarton...
Thats really special. Thx!!

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#63
doncolga
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2017/11/25 14:37:20 (permalink)
mixmkr
hbarton
mixmkr
thx Bit... 
I imagine at the Presonus forums...there's going to be a flood of these "newbie" type questions, from people exhausted from reading the manual and just want a quick, clear answer!!
 
What would be cool over there is a "I'm from Sonar DAW" subgroup.  Fielding all these basic questions that are hidden deep in the bowels of the program.
Hard to stop messing with S1 but gotta hop on the BLack Friday stuff too.   All these new toys...


Hi,
I will make the suggestion over on the Presonus forum. I'm not a Studio One tech but will try to help where I can answer a question when I can. Since it is the holiday many from Presonus probably took a well deserved long weekend (but there are still some holding the fort it seems). I did notice that one of the moderators (jpettit) set up a greeting page here:
https://forums.presonus.com/viewtopic.php?f=151&t=27570&p=153954#p153954
That was a nice welcome.   I'm anxious, to say the least.  Will probably wait to see if there is a cross over price, but I'm ready.  I hate to say goodbye to Sonar, but it's like getting something new and the old just doesn't seem as needed.  S1 was a fairly easy learning curve and that's been very beneficial.
 
Probably will not answer all questions, but be a good subgroup starting point for a folks coming from Cake.


That was a nice welcome letter.  I'm getting more and more excited about S1 each time I use it.  The learning curve isn't really all that hard, which is a blessing.  There's some good stuff in there that's new.  The future looks good.




I've shared this in several places here but I have totally loved Studio One since I moved to it this past Spring.  I found it very easy to pick up and discovered many features that I simply liked much better.  Examples:  I found mixer navigation, grouping and routing much more to my liking.  Clip gain, just click the bottom half of a clip, then drag the central blue handle on top up or down.  A single plugin window allows access to everything in a chain.  I just found many things much faster and streamlined with S1 for my workflow. 

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#64
KingsMix
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2017/11/25 14:58:33 (permalink)
Larry Jones
I've installed the demo but I can't get to it until the weekend. I keep hearing "...the MIDI implementation will be a disappointment after SONAR." Is this true? What is it that doesn't work? I don't do orchestral stuff. I'm a guitar player, so I mostly use MIDI bass, piano and synth pads. What should I be testing for?
 
Hope I'm phrasing my question right. Thanks!


No it's not true....It seemed that it was lacking in midi implementation in it's early days. That's what kept me away from it for a long time. Now it's smooth and like butter, second nature. Been using Studio One 3 Pro for a quite while now, and to be honest, a lot of things and areas I thought it was lacking in when I first got my Artist copy bundled with an interface that I purchased, I realize that it was just a matter of me learning Studio One more in depth. You do have to dedicate some time to learning the ins and out of it, but I can say now, that it was well worth it, and money well spent. Imho
#65
hbarton
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2017/11/25 16:14:40 (permalink)
Midiboy
The only thing I haven't really figured out that I really want to is how to "tie" notes together in step sequence mode.  How do I make a note longer than a whole note, for example.  This is kind of annoying to me. 


Hi,
If you open the Event viewer (double click the MIDI track) then select both notes. Right click on one note and at the bottom of the list then click the flyout for Musicial Functions - second selection at the bottom is Merge Events.
 
Take care,
h
#66
bitflipper
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2017/11/25 17:07:40 (permalink)
After spending several hours in the "music editor" (odd choice; I guess only MIDI counts as "music") I've found no obvious omissions in the MIDI editing features. It appears that Studio One can probably do everything I'd ever want it to do.
 
That said, I have to admit that the process feels clunky and awkward.
 
Example. You select the Paint tool to insert notes, which works great (I like the way you can adjust velocity at the same time). But you then realize you've dropped the note on C# instead of C, so the natural move is to select the note and move it. Oops, you just deleted the note. You have to press "1" first, then you can move it. Don't forget to press "3" again to continue entering data.
 
I could get used to it, though. You can get used to anything with enough repetition. The developers may have come from Cubase, but it's clear they weren't the ones who wrote the MIDI editor there.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

My Stuff
#67
synkrotron
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2017/11/25 17:11:40 (permalink)
bitflipper
Example. You select the Paint tool to insert notes, which works great (I like the way you can adjust velocity at the same time). But you then realize you've dropped the note on C# instead of C, so the natural move is to select the note and move it. Oops, you just deleted the note. You have to press "1" first, then you can move it. Don't forget to press "3" again to continue entering data.
 



Ah... I hadn't noticed that... Being playing pretty much all day but totally missed that one. Thanks Dave

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#68
mixmkr
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2017/11/25 17:29:35 (permalink)
In the greeting letter, S1 states it's not the MIDI wizz kid...but is certainly usable I'm thinking for 95% of people using MIDI within S1. I noticed the 2nd click deleted the note...which I thought just as handy since it was the wrong note! Potentially faster than moving..by deleting and then adding the correct note desired. Vanilla..chocolate

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#69
Steve_Karl
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2017/11/25 17:30:13 (permalink)
Rasure
Does anyone happen to know the midi clock PPQN of S1? did a google search but couldn't really find anything.




Good thought on that. It's very important.

Steve Karl
https://soundcloud.com/steve_karl
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#70
Antler
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2017/11/26 00:04:38 (permalink)
I've had a play around with Studio One and made a very(!) simple MIDI song. It seems fine to me, using all soft synths. Seems a little strange that I have to add a MIDI device to be able to use it for input (it automatically appeared and was usable as an input in Sonar).
 
I don't understand why people are suggesting a lacking in MIDI capabilities (ok, the editing process may not have been as smooth as in Sonar, but it's not like there was something I could not end up doing). Is there something I'm missing, and will only realise once I'm doing a more complex project (i.e. a 'normal' midi-centric project)?
#71
SquireBum
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2017/11/26 04:47:30 (permalink)
bitflipper
 
Example. You select the Paint tool to insert notes, which works great (I like the way you can adjust velocity at the same time). But you then realize you've dropped the note on C# instead of C, so the natural move is to select the note and move it. Oops, you just deleted the note. You have to press "1" first, then you can move it. Don't forget to press "3" again to continue entering data.



Workflow tip:  Pressing the Ctrl key when the Arrow tool is active in the "Music editor" turns the Arrow tool into the pencil tool.  As soon as you release the Ctrl key, the Arrow tool is available for moving notes and prevents the accidental deletion of previously added notes.
 
Hope this helps,
-- Ron

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#72
SquireBum
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2017/11/26 06:24:23 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Antler 2017/11/26 16:46:02
Antler
I don't understand why people are suggesting a lacking in MIDI capabilities (ok, the editing process may not have been as smooth as in Sonar, but it's not like there was something I could not end up doing). Is there something I'm missing, and will only realise once I'm doing a more complex project (i.e. a 'normal' midi-centric project)?



1.  Do you ever use Process> Find/Change... or Edit > Select > by Filter in SONAR?  S1 has no equivalent function.
2.  Do you draw CC values into the CC lanes in SONAR and depend on seeing the value feedback of the mouse position in the scale in the left margin of the CC lane?  S1 gives no direct feedback of the values you are entering as you draw, only when you are editing individual nodes. 
3.  Do you ever use the Event List in SONAR?  S1 has no equivalent function.
4.  Do you use the "Last Touched" feature in the Note Duration drop-down box in SONAR that allowed you to draw new notes based on the last note you touched?  S1 has no equivalent function.
5.  Do you ever use the "In-line" MIDI Editor in SONAR?  S1 has no equivalent function.
 
If your answer is "No" to all of these items, then you probably won't be missing much.
 
Hope this helps
-- Ron
 

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#73
SquireBum
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2017/11/26 07:22:16 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jackson white 2017/11/26 19:41:38
Steve_Karl
Rasure
Does anyone happen to know the midi clock PPQN of S1? did a google search but couldn't really find anything.




Good thought on that. It's very important.




Studio One does not use PPQN or ticks when referencing "Note events".  Read the topic in the manual titled "Look Mom, No MIDI".  Users of earlier versions of Studio One may recall that velocity values were only represented by percent and not the traditional 0-127.  Both options are available in the current version.
 
Studio One uses a series of 4 numbers delimited by dots to represent midi note and audio event Start time, End time, and Length in the Inspectors.  In the screenshot example below, the selected note displays the Start time in the note inspector on the lower left as "00001.02.02.50".  The interpretation is as follows:
 
"00001"  Bar 1
"02"     Beat 2  Values can range from 01 to the value of the time signature numerator (4: 01-04, 6: 01-06, etc.)
"02"     Sub-beats in 16ths   Value range depends on the time signature denominator (4: 01-04, 8: 01-02)
"50"       50% or half way to the next sub-beat    Values can range from 00 to 99.
 
Getting used to this time format for a new S1 user that has been accustomed to Bar.Beat.Ticks in other DAWs can be a challenge at first.
 

 
Hope this helps,
-- Ron

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#74
Bassman002
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2017/11/26 09:48:00 (permalink)
Hi there:)
 
Am I wrong??  Looks like I am on a Studio One Forum!!!
 
Bassman.
 
#75
Antler
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2017/11/26 16:45:43 (permalink)
SquireBum
Antler
I don't understand why people are suggesting a lacking in MIDI capabilities (ok, the editing process may not have been as smooth as in Sonar, but it's not like there was something I could not end up doing). Is there something I'm missing, and will only realise once I'm doing a more complex project (i.e. a 'normal' midi-centric project)?



1.  Do you ever use Process> Find/Change... or Edit > Select > by Filter in SONAR?  S1 has no equivalent function.
2.  Do you draw CC values into the CC lanes in SONAR and depend on seeing the value feedback of the mouse position in the scale in the left margin of the CC lane?  S1 gives no direct feedback of the values you are entering as you draw, only when you are editing individual nodes. 
3.  Do you ever use the Event List in SONAR?  S1 has no equivalent function.
4.  Do you use the "Last Touched" feature in the Note Duration drop-down box in SONAR that allowed you to draw new notes based on the last note you touched?  S1 has no equivalent function.
5.  Do you ever use the "In-line" MIDI Editor in SONAR?  S1 has no equivalent function.
 
If your answer is "No" to all of these items, then you probably won't be missing much.
 
Hope this helps
-- Ron
 




Thanks for this list; looks like I overlooked a few features.
#76
Skyline_UK
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2017/11/26 16:53:44 (permalink)
I spent some time today refreshing my skills on Studio One.
I soon got back into the swing.  Still missing Sonar's MIDI Event List though.  BTW, it's quite easy to make your own 'Sonar' keyboard shortcuts, which makes things a lot easier.
 

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#77
rbrodbec
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2017/12/31 01:47:16 (permalink)
It took e like 5 days to setup a Roland XV-5080.  Studio One does not support instrument definition files so the ins file I have been using for years and years in sonar was rendered useless.  You have to set patch and bank using the MSB / LSB number derived by taking the MSBX128+LSB.  I found most of what I needed, research, research, research across Roland support, my ins files, etc.  This requires that you reference each sound externally, either in a spreadsheet or using reference doc's related to the patches and addon modules.  I spent 10 hours today building a spreadsheet with everything in one place today for my reference.
 
I was very spoiled with sonar, load the .ins and tinker with sound.  I can't find a midi panic or midi reset button in studio one one either, which is a problem as I tinker with the external hardware looking for patches something gets out of sync and studio one won't reset the device so it gets stuck on a specific patch.  If anyone wants my spreadsheet let me know I will share it, it took forever (if anyone even has a xv-5080) to assemble.
 
Studio One does not play nicely with my Motu devices either, the 828 MKII or the midi express.  There might be Presonus hardware in my future (I am sure they will love that).  I ain't got time for shiznit that don't play nice, I need to turn it on and it works.  I have owned studio one for a week and all that has been dedicated to hardware and configuration, I have about 15 pieces of external gear and so far I think I nailed one of them, eeeeeeeeek.
#78
Cactus Music
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2017/12/31 01:54:27 (permalink)
Not that I care but why is this thread still here? It seems all the people who switched to Studio one are using the Sonar and  Software forum here as a studio one  help Forum.. KInda weird don't ya think? . Is their forum that bad? I guess all the forum Hosts have swicthed too..

Johnny V  
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#79
djwayne
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2017/12/31 02:14:22 (permalink)

post edited by djwayne - 2017/12/31 02:39:57
#80
djwayne
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2017/12/31 02:40:24 (permalink)
#81
Jeff Evans
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2017/12/31 02:59:17 (permalink)
Studio One does have a panic button. It's on the midi monitor page. 'All Notes Off' Not in an obvious place I agree.
To get to the midi monitor click on the little midi icon down below.
You an make a keyboard shortcut for it though.
 
Studio One plays nice with every midi interface I have tested including Midi Express XT. 

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#82
rbrodbec
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2017/12/31 03:28:09 (permalink)
Thanks Jeff I will look for the note off.  I can't find a midi reset -> send reset to external devices on all ports.  I don't think note off will do that.  But the panic button will come in handy for sure.
 
Just the Komplete Kontrol S88, external Midi Device and Studio One Setup has taken nearly a week to get functional.  Studio One support were not knowledgeable even though the info I needed for setup was actually on their support site, ha haaaaaa, after days of creating just the right inet search criteria for me to find it.
 
Going to install the Studio One X macro pack, looks like some really cool midi features along with audio. 
#83
Jeff Evans
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2017/12/31 03:30:40 (permalink)
As far asI know All Notes Off is basically the same as a rest command. Must admit I don't use it because my Midi Interface has it also on the front panel and it is easy to get to for me. 
 
Studio One X is no longer from what we can tell. There is no info about it. Or how to install etc.. The website has disappeared. You might be better off waiting until V4 comes out and see what happens there.
 
 

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#84
musichoo
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2017/12/31 08:30:26 (permalink)
I have use Studio One for 3-4 months now and on the process of finishing a CD full of midi arranged songs. I like their realtime quantize feature. I like how easy and fast it is to humantize, change midi note value or transpose midi. It might not have some of Sonar's feature but mostly I can get my work done faster than Sonar. Btw let me let you in on a little secret. I know a guy who has a very successful career producing music for American TV series and his name is Rick Balentine. He uses S1. He is the reason why I am using S1 too.

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#85
Jeff Evans
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2017/12/31 10:05:42 (permalink)
If you are good at what you do, Studio One's midi implementation is not going to get in your way. It is faster and that is why quite a few professional users like using it too. No time fiddling around, all the time spent on the music. As it should be.  
 
There is no trouble with Studio One and midi.  All the essentials are there and that is what is important.  And some things that are better, like the overall timing of the midi engine and stuff like that.  Way bigger than event lists and instrument definitions. 
 
 

Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface 
 
Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
#86
soens
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2018/01/01 13:14:13 (permalink)
Cubase has some really slick MIDI tools but for the most part, SO3 can do just as well or better than Sonar. No Instrument Definitions, which made voice selection quick, but the ability to use Program Changes in the PRV means you can switch patch voices within the same Bank as often as you like, in the same track. AFAIK, Sonar cannot do that.
post edited by soens - 2018/01/02 04:03:24
#87
rbrodbec
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2018/01/01 16:10:46 (permalink)
It can but it looks like you have to change the msb/lsb calculation versus how you use it in the track inspector which is ridiculous. No .ins file makes it almost unusable for outboard midi gear at least from a workflow perspective IMHO.

If using softsynths it's not a problem.
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djwayne
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2018/01/01 17:31:11 (permalink)
waves///helllo.....I'm using virtual synths and sound sample programs, no problems with definitions here....My hardware synths are all in storage now. Problem with those is if they breakdown who's gonna fix them ??
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Markubl2
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2018/01/01 17:37:56 (permalink)
rbrodbec
It can but it looks like you have to change the msb/lsb calculation versus how you use it in the track inspector which is ridiculous. No .ins file makes it almost unusable for outboard midi gear at least from a workflow perspective IMHO.

If using softsynths it's not a problem.



This is exactly why I chose Cubase over Studio One.  Even without Studio One's inability to use definitions, the Cubase Midi is just better than Studio One.   Factor in the very powerful Cubase patch scripts, and the choice was simple for me.
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