sykodelic
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/12 18:10:51
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I have had sonar since version 6 and never really liked it till X1 as I thought it was to cluttered. I don't mind learning a few new shortcuts to have the interface cleaned up. I actually find my way around in X1 pretty well. Granted I took the time to learn the software though. Change is not a bad thing......I'm cool if they make the toolbar an option but please make it an option as I don't want it taking up space on my screen.
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gothic.angel
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/12 18:17:35
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JClosed
Well - strong opinions here...
And all because a question about a save button... remarkable...
What can I say? I am using Sonar from version 6 (not that long as real old-timers), but in my opinion X1 is a step forward.
Sure - it can be improved, but I must say I think (and that is my own opinion) the old interface was too stuffed with all those tiny buttons. I really like the clean-up that has been done. I think those people that feel natural with key-combo's feel at home, and people that use the mouse a lot feel a bit left out. So - some people win a bit and some loose a bit. For me the keys and key-combo's have a big positive point - you can use them without moving your mouse away from the place you are working. You can also use the keys without looking what you are doing (like you have to do when using a mouse), making concentrating on the task you are doing a lot more easy.
As I said - this is pure personal, but I really would not like to go back to the old interface...
This is best illustrated by two things.. The fact that I use X1 every day... And the fact that when I take a look at my boxes with 8 and 8.5 inside, I notice a distinct layer of dust on top of them. Need to say more (apart from the fact that I have to dust-off more often)? Guess not..
Sure... it's pure personal... ...but it's NOT a question of going back to the old interface... instead, it's about merging previous, handy TOOLS with the new one... ...The new "clean-up", to my personal experience, has resulted in slowing all operations down, thus making the experience much "poorer", so to say.... As you say...This is best "illustrated" by the fact that using X1 intensely for months (six by now...) has lead me to get back to dear 8.5.3, appreciating how much more powerful this feels, in the end... ...so, as it's always personal, why not merging the best of both worlds...? That's what many of us are STILL just asking for....
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sykodelic
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/12 18:22:32
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As I said - this is pure personal, but I really would not like to go back to the old interface..
+1
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sykodelic
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/12 18:26:41
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It's only slower because your used to doing it differently. For new users I think it will actually be much faster.
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gothic.angel
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/12 18:32:52
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gwp99
gothic.angel
Yes, MIDI in SONAR is great, the best out there, possibly.... and it was one of the reason I chose it for, too....
...but the new PRV in X1 is confusing, time-consuming and thus slower than previous versions, as you now have to dive into features-hiding menus and\or remembering keys... also the new "smart tool" needs extra-clicks...! Quite distracting....
The previous version, INSTEAD, had everything at hand, just ONE single click for almost ANY tool, at sight, giving instant visual feedback of what was on or off...
....so fast and powerful it WAS........
thanks very much for this reply...I am still trying to find the X1 custom user tool bar!
Hi there in Canada... You're welcome, gwp99.... Far as the X1 custom user tool bar, you won't find it simply because Cakewalk DIDN'T supply it with X1..!!! ...In fact, all you can do is choose which among the new "static" modules (not customizable at all...) you want visible or not... Now, depending on your screen size, this may result in continuously having to switch from modules off to on, with (too) many of them remaining "off-screen" anyway...!! ...Incredibly awkward...!!! Surely one of the worst changes in X1...!!! ...What was the point in Cakewalk's making unuseful "offscreen" modules is something beyond reason...... ...At least this is something that should be soon improved... no way out....
post edited by gothic.angel - 2011/06/12 18:34:15
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gothic.angel
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/12 18:49:53
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sykodelic
It's only slower because your used to doing it differently. For new users I think it will actually be much faster.
Hi, sykodelic... One of the strongest point that made SONAR stand out was its HUGE flexibility... you could LEARN and EASILY use even the deeper and most detailed feature BECAUSE they were all right there, and even visually it WAS all under CONTROL.... ...now that much of that flexibility is hidden\lost, SONAR, in many aspects, is just one of those DAWs out there... Again, it's personal... but it really feels like SOMETHING important has been lost...... I hope for a better immediate future.....
GothicAngeL - EBM - Dark Electronics______________________________SONAR Platinum ∞, Rapture ProSAMPLITUDE X3 Pro Suite, FL Studio 12, Reason 10
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/12 19:12:06
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I ask those who actually like not having a Save icon, or a Console View icon, or a PRV icon etc, would you prefer a two-mouse click, or a Ctrl+ keyboard option for the icons you've got used to using, for example on the Transport Bar? Imagine having no choice but to use Transport > Play every time you want to do some mixing? Or Ctrl+R to start recording? I could go on. In theory, nearly every icon in all the Screenset Modules could be removed, and users left with a two mouse click (or more) or a keyboard shortcut option to 'replace' them. I don't suppose that would go down too well, but to me it's exactly the same. All we are asking for is to be given the choice back. Here's a mock-up of my ideal Screenset Module to give me back the choices I would like: 
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gwp99
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/12 19:20:56
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gothic.angel
Hi there in Canada... You're welcome, gwp99....
Hello fellow Canuk (I assume!) I am a little surprised at these GUI issues/decisions with X1...I only hope that Cakewalk takes these as serious shortfalls. I felt I came 3 steps forward and 1 step back this afternoon. for the most part, I have found the switch back to Sonar and to X1 to be positive and worth the time it took me to get set-up the stability for me is the primary reason (I never had this at all with v8), midi implementation and then the GUI...X1 (even the first release) was more stable than 8 ever was for me...the GUI is something that should be the easiest to address...but the midi!
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sykodelic
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/12 19:33:09
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I like your mock up of the module even though I wouldn't use it. I can get to any of those views by hitting a numerical key on my keyboard as I set up a screenset for all the views I use. If it was implemented the way you described that would be cool I don't mind having the option to add the modules everyone wants to the control bar but I just hope its only an option and not permanently affixed to the screen.
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gwp99
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/12 21:38:07
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SteveStrummerUK
I ask those who actually like not having a Save icon, or a Console View icon, or a PRV icon etc, would you prefer a two-mouse click, or a Ctrl+ keyboard option for the icons you've got used to using, for example on the Transport Bar?
Imagine having no choice but to use Transport > Play every time you want to do some mixing?
Or Ctrl+R to start recording?
I could go on.
In theory, nearly every icon in all the Screenset Modules could be removed, and users left with a two mouse click (or more) or a keyboard shortcut option to 'replace' them.
I don't suppose that would go down too well, but to me it's exactly the same.
All we are asking for is to be given the choice back.
Here's a mock-up of my ideal Screenset Module to give me back the choices I would like:
+1 for the concept...my needs may be different but that is what "user-defined" is all about... I would even settle for a mouse click on a button to bring a user-defined "Module" up - it looks as though there is just enough space for a numeric screenset -sized button just under the "Snap To Grid" button.
post edited by gwp99 - 2011/06/12 21:39:12
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yorolpal
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/12 21:48:11
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Again, it's quite amazing the things folks want to deny others because "it doesn't bother them". Can you say obliviously self-absorbed??
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sykodelic
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/12 21:54:05
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I actually said it's a good idea as long as it's not permanently affixed. If it was then wouldn't the ones asking be self absorbed also as it would be affecting my workflow so they could have it their way. goes both ways yorolpal.
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yorolpal
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/12 22:42:44
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Nope, sorry. We're not asking that anything you have currently be taken away. We want you to have all the options you need to work as you like. We would just like the same.
Again, we are simply asking for our options to be brought back...not for yours to be taken away. Hope you see the difference.:-)
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gwp99
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/12 23:00:32
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yorolpal
...we are simply asking for our options to be brought back...not for yours to be taken away...
that's the "hitting the nail right on the head"...
post edited by gwp99 - 2011/06/12 23:32:46
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sykodelic
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/12 23:12:43
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One again I think it is a good idea if you have the option to add a module to the contol bar. I just don't want it affixed as it was in previous versions.
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rbowser
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/12 23:26:28
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yorolpal
Nope, sorry. We're not asking that anything you have currently be taken away. We want you to have all the options you need to work as you like. We would just like the same.
Again, we are simply asking for our options to be brought back...not for yours to be taken away. Hope you see the difference.:-)
Excellent, Yorolpal - I'm grateful that I don't even need to beg for options to be brought back. They never left me, because I'm still using 8.5. Simple solution. And I know X1 pretty well now, well enough to know that I am missing nothing by not using it. Randy B.
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JClosed
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/13 03:06:16
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Well - if "options to be brought back" means a copy of the old interface (switchable new/old interface) I do not think this will ever happen. I think the best you can hope for is a extra (configurable) toolbar like the one provided by benstat.
If this option is provided by the Cakewalk team in stead of benstat is everybody happy then? Because If that's not enough I am afraid the only option is to stick with 8.5.
And yourolpal - I am really not denying others anything. I just gave my opininion (if I am alowed to), and tried to be realistic. There is no way to get the old interface (and workflow) back without doing a complete re-design of the interface X1 has now. I do not think this will happen because that would in fact be a roll-back to the old set. That situation is not my choice but just a reality we have to deal with. Don't shoot the messenger here please.
I think the toolbar provided by benstat is a showcase for what people like you need as extra on top of the new interface. If the developers take a good look at that and incorporate this (or something similar) as a swichable option, together with a more extended configuring of colours and keys, do you think that would be enough? If not - I am afraid X1 will never ever "stick" to you. Not my choice tough - just realism...
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yorolpal
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/13 09:50:57
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As a matter of fact ol Benstat's toolbar goes a Looooong way to getting back what was removed. And if you'll re-read my initial post I think you'll see we've both come to the same conclusion...just from different directions. X1 is the new lay of the land...either get used to it and move on or stick to 8.5 for as long as you can. I'm learning X1...warts and all.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/13 11:30:15
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gwp99
SteveStrummerUK
I ask those who actually like not having a Save icon, or a Console View icon, or a PRV icon etc, would you prefer a two-mouse click, or a Ctrl+ keyboard option for the icons you've got used to using, for example on the Transport Bar?
Imagine having no choice but to use Transport > Play every time you want to do some mixing?
Or Ctrl+R to start recording?
I could go on.
In theory, nearly every icon in all the Screenset Modules could be removed, and users left with a two mouse click (or more) or a keyboard shortcut option to 'replace' them.
I don't suppose that would go down too well, but to me it's exactly the same.
All we are asking for is to be given the choice back.
Here's a mock-up of my ideal Screenset Module to give me back the choices I would like:
+1 for the concept...my needs may be different but that is what "user-defined" is all about...
I would even settle for a mouse click on a button to bring a user-defined "Module" up - it looks as though there is just enough space for a numeric screenset -sized button just under the "Snap To Grid" button.
I can access any of the above views with a single mouse click. They are all docked in the multidock with the tabs visible at the top of the dock.
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gothic.angel
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/13 11:51:40
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yorolpal
Nope, sorry. We're not asking that anything you have currently be taken away. We want you to have all the options you need to work as you like. We would just like the same.
Again, we are simply asking for our options to be brought back...not for yours to be taken away. Hope you see the difference.:-)
Yep.... EXACTLY............... thanks yoropal......
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gothic.angel
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/13 12:03:09
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rbowser
Excellent, Yorolpal - I'm grateful that I don't even need to beg for options to be brought back. They never left me, because I'm still using 8.5. Simple solution. And I know X1 pretty well now, well enough to know that I am missing nothing by not using it.
Randy B.
That's the feeling.... IMO, the best things in X1 are the new Browser, Screensets, (just) some aspects in the Inspector, and.... well... that's the whole lot....!!! Worst things are the new Control Bar (useless with absurd "off-screen" modules), multi-level menus (obsolete, confusing and time-consuming), total lack of visible tools in Piano Roll View (very serious issue...), lack of customization in general.... Indeed, I happen to find that almost anything was way better (and easily available) in 8.5.......................... Edit: I beg your pardon, mates, because I'll be possibly posting the above lists again here and there in the forum (as I already did, in fact...)...... ...i apologize from now if someone finds that tedious... but Cakewalk GOTTA give (some) things BACK to the disappointed "old" users.... fair is fair..... simply NO WAY OUT, otherwise....
post edited by gothic.angel - 2011/06/13 12:14:27
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dappa1
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/13 12:15:06
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X1 is for Generation Xer's!
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JoshWolfer
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/13 12:58:38
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dlesaux
The logic that Cakewalk stated was to avoid hitting a save icon by mistake and writing over a "good file.. I can see where they're coming from.. I also use the mouse most of the time and just use File Save.. I know it's twice the amount of clicks but so be it.. I can survive that!
LOL. This actually made me laugh. The reason is that I use the Vstudio 700 control surface. Right next to the "undo" button, is the "save" button. It's not a big deal, because I religiously save (constantly to new file name for reversion later), but there are so many times that I've fat fingered one over the other.
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alexniedt
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/16 10:19:24
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You'd think any modern program of this sort would have a "save" button, but I'm getting used to "ctrl + S". :)
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gwp99
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/16 16:33:59
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Thanks for the Benstat's toolbar suggestion - I now have a Save icon as well as Undo, Redo and User Manual icons all in a handy location.... and all as a one-click!
post edited by gwp99 - 2011/06/16 16:35:40
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gothic.angel
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/16 16:48:37
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gwp99
Thanks for the Benstat's toolbar suggestion - I now have a Save icon as well as Undo, Redo and User Manual icons all in a handy location.... and all as a one-click!
Yep... mate... ...which basically means... we STILL NEED old Invaluable TOOL BARS....!!!!!!
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gwp99
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/16 16:52:51
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gwp99
Thanks for the Benstat's toolbar suggestion - I now have a Save icon as well as Undo, Redo and User Manual icons all in a handy location.... and all as a one-click!
However, as stated at his site, the functionality of it may change as X1 upgrades/fixes are installed. I would prefer not to have this worry, but at least I know that it is something to keep in mind.
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