gwp99
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Where is the "Save" icon? (SOLVED - More or Less)
Where is the "Save" icon and/or how can I create one in an existing Tool Bar?
post edited by gwp99 - 2011/06/16 17:02:41
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rbowser
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/11 00:38:16
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On your computer keyboard - Ctrl+S.
RB
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gwp99
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/11 00:40:41
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rbowser
On your computer keyboard - Ctrl+S.
RB
yes, I have that...but as I usually have my mouse in my hand, would like to have the Save "icon" as in previous versions.
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rbowser
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/11 01:06:51
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I understand - The Benstat improvements on X1 include a Save icon on a tool bar that also includes most of the other stupidly removed buttons in X1. The threads for his stuff are usually on the front page - I didn't stop to find any just now, but you'll see them.
RB
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DeeringAmps
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/11 13:03:18
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Lame idea leaving out the "save" icon. I've trained myself in all software to hit that thing everytime I have the mouse in my hand.
Just lame...
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gwp99
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/11 13:08:27
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rbowser
The Benstat improvements on X1
Thanks for this RB - I wasn't aware of Benstat so I will do a search...
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dlesaux
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/11 14:39:13
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The logic that Cakewalk stated was to avoid hitting a save icon by mistake and writing over a "good file.. I can see where they're coming from.. I also use the mouse most of the time and just use File Save.. I know it's twice the amount of clicks but so be it.. I can survive that!
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RajahP
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/11 15:57:46
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And the console icon also... Please bring it back..
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gwp99
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/11 16:11:56
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dlesaux
The logic that Cakewalk stated was to avoid hitting a save icon by mistake and writing over a "good file..
Actually, this can still happen when you press the Save selection from the File/Save Option by mistake (say instead of Save As) - there is no confirmation for this operation.
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gothic.angel
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/11 20:48:12
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RajahP
And the console icon also... Please bring it back..
+1,000,000,............... yep... icons/tools were a lot much faster.... while multi-level menus or keys are just the worst thing Cakewalk have done to SONAR... A lot of us are fighting for that.... GIVE US CUSTOMIZABLE TOOLS BACK....!!!!
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konradh
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/11 21:36:12
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Another reason why I like the Roland V-Studio: it has dedicated save, copy, cut, paste, and view buttons--although that is no reason to remove the icons from the software UI.
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Timeking
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/11 21:55:25
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Ctrl-S, Ctrl-X, Ctrl-Z, Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V
I mean if you do a lot of wordprocessing editing, you know these things, so I don't see that as problem. Hot keys are ok.
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konradh
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/11 22:04:25
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Timeking, I agree and use the hot keys all the time. I have some other posts on this forum about the Cut/Copy/Paste keys working intermittently in Staff view (and other users tell me in other places as well). Not exactly the issue here, but sort of related.
Later...
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stratman70
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/11 22:17:40
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I agree also-I can move and work so much faster without the mouse. I hate the mouse-in every application. I really do not think you will see these icons come back. It woud definitely be a step backwards. Once you move away from the mouse you will see how backwards it really is (was). Keyboard short cuts are the way to go. I certainly do not wish to start a giant debate-but the mouse is yesterday. Keyboard short cuts are much. much faster for any work flow. Granted they do need to make sense, not just some random keys I would venture to guess the mouse will be joing the 3.5" floppy disc. no I don't have hard facts. But I read tech articles each and every day. I will end by saying I "DO" aggree, you\we should have the choice-as in customizing which commans\functions we would like to see. I truly do miss the Sonar customization options
post edited by stratman70 - 2011/06/11 22:20:05
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rbowser
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/11 22:58:12
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Well, it's certainly a much talked about issue. In my opinion, it would be more sophisticated for a modern program to provide all possible tools to the user. It's silly to say that having a basic Save button on a tool bar would "definitely be a step backwards." No, it's a step backwards not to have it included. There are plenty of people using programs like Sonar who have one hand busy on a MIDI keyboard, and justifiably rebel when they are forced to take their hand from that keyboard in order to use a computer keyboard. Having all possible commands still possible via mouse is the best option for users like that, and they're large in numbers. Keybindings are all fine and well, but not for the musician who doesn't want to have both of his hands constantly tied to a computer keyboard. And it can be argued that the basic concept of having these pages and pages of keybindings to do our tasks is basically - nerdy. It's the stuff computer geeks love, and hard core users can very easily loathe.
It's been said many times, but I'll say it again. I think it's obvious that X1 was designed by programmers mostly concerned with streamlining and making a "pretty" looking, simplified, "modern" interface, sacrificing the ease of use which previous to X1 was the hallmark of Cakewalk software.
Randy B.
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emwhy
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/12 10:09:01
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It seems icons are taking a hit with other software as well. Adobe Audition CS5.5 has eliminated a lot of their icons...some that I've really come to rely on from their newest release. Been working with the demo and prefer the older work-flow...so much so I may not buy it even at the upgrade price.
Benstat's tool has been a godsend for me with SONAR, I wish Cakewalk would create a new module for SONAR's toolbar that had the save, undo/redo options available.
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mattox82
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/12 10:19:49
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rbowser
It's been said many times, but I'll say it again. I think it's obvious that X1 was designed by programmers mostly concerned with streamlining and making a "pretty" looking, simplified, "modern" interface, sacrificing the ease of use which previous to X1 was the hallmark of Cakewalk software.
Randy B.
Wow, you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Sonar has gone from what was probably the worst UI in all DAW land to what is arguably the best looking and workflow enhancing one. Persoanlly I would not have touched Sonar if the interface has stayed back in v.8 land. CTRL + S ... File -> Save ... Preferences -> Auto-Save. An icon for something that simple is a waste of space.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/12 10:20:09
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The mouse isn't going to disappear until we are all using tablets and our fingers have become the mouse.
When we all run tablets some one really smart is going to think "Why touch the little squares that are labeled "S" and "ctrl" at the same time when you can just touch a little square labeled "save".
It will seem like a good idea.
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rbowser
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/12 11:43:44
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mattox82
rbowser
It's been said many times, but I'll say it again. I think it's obvious that X1 was designed by programmers mostly concerned with streamlining and making a "pretty" looking, simplified, "modern" interface, sacrificing the ease of use which previous to X1 was the hallmark of Cakewalk software.
Randy B.
Wow, you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Sonar has gone from what was probably the worst UI in all DAW land to what is arguably the best looking and workflow enhancing one. Persoanlly I would not have touched Sonar if the interface has stayed back in v.8 land.
CTRL + S ... File -> Save ... Preferences -> Auto-Save. An icon for something that simple is a waste of space.
Mattox, don't be such a noodge. Mirroring the language of your post - Wow, you obviously have no idea what the difference is between an opinion and a set of facts. I DO know what I'm talking about, because I was expressing my opinion, and I'm very familiar with what that is. I like me 8.5, I use it every day. X1 lies there on my hard drive serving not much more purpose than to be a curiosity piece. I've had it since the day it was released, I've spent many hours with it, went through the long video tutorial series - I even come on this Forum to see if I can help people with it. But I'm still using the program that works best for me, 8.5. No crazy business of needing to hide a grossly enlarged toolbar just to make bounces, no hassling back and forth with grid resolutions, or click click clicking my way into menus for items that should be instantly available, no struggling with the half-baked screenset concept - and no eye strain from having to look at X1's boring, drab, lifeless looking GUI. And etc. All IMHO.
By the way, all I ever use is CTRL+S. That's the first recommendation I made on this thread. But the OP explained he didn't want to need both hands on the computer keyboard--a reasonable request since he and a lot of other people using Cakewalk are musicians, they kinda need hands free as much as possible while recording. It's a basic, extremely simple thing to provide the user some easily accessible controls- and it was insane to take away basic functions like that. Thank heavens Benstat's toolbar recoups a lot of Cakewalk's lost functionality, but isn't that a bizarre thing? - a user had to come along and fix what Cakewalk broke and doesn't plan on fixing. And so forth. Randy B.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/12 12:18:29
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Some interesting arguments going on but why isn't Ctrl-S a single handed job? Who uses two hands for that?  I can see the argument that there should be icons for those that use them, perhaps they'll get added as time goes on but IMHO the new interface is streets ahead of the old one, I say that as a user from V2 onwards. Why remove them? I have no idea perhaps it was all part of the 'new' UI coding and a necessary evil. All I know is that I can work way quicker in X1 than in any previous incarnation.
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gwp99
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/12 16:29:18
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FastBikerBoy
...but IMHO the new interface is streets ahead of the old one, I say that as a user from V2 onwards.
I totally agree - it is what brought me back to Sonar - that and finally the stability for me... 
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gothic.angel
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/12 16:54:54
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rbowser
Well, it's certainly a much talked about issue. In my opinion, it would be more sophisticated for a modern program to provide all possible tools to the user. It's silly to say that having a basic Save button on a tool bar would "definitely be a step backwards." No, it's a step backwards not to have it included. There are plenty of people using programs like Sonar who have one hand busy on a MIDI keyboard, and justifiably rebel when they are forced to take their hand from that keyboard in order to use a computer keyboard. Having all possible commands still possible via mouse is the best option for users like that, and they're large in numbers. Keybindings are all fine and well, but not for the musician who doesn't want to have both of his hands constantly tied to a computer keyboard. And it can be argued that the basic concept of having these pages and pages of keybindings to do our tasks is basically - nerdy. It's the stuff computer geeks love, and hard core users can very easily loathe.
It's been said many times, but I'll say it again. I think it's obvious that X1 was designed by programmers mostly concerned with streamlining and making a "pretty" looking, simplified, "modern" interface, sacrificing the ease of use which previous to X1 was the hallmark of Cakewalk software.
Randy B.
TOTALLY, DEFINETELY right........ How can (some) people still deny these easy concepts is a mistery to me... 
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sykodelic
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/12 17:01:08
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I takes one hand to click the save button or one hand to hit ctrl s. Am I missing something. I for one am happy to see all the icons go they took up space and I would rather use shortcuts as it is much faster than fiddling with the mouse. As I also mentioned earlier it should be easy enough to program a button on your controller through ACT to save. I have a button on my Alphatrack set as save and also one of the pads on my A500pro set up as save.
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gothic.angel
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/12 17:08:26
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gwp99
FastBikerBoy
...but IMHO the new interface is streets ahead of the old one, I say that as a user from V2 onwards.
I totally agree - it is what brought me back to Sonar - that and finally the stability for me...
'course I understand and respect the view, but I DON'T agree AT ALL.... instead... Some aspects of the new interface (as those old concept multi-level menus and silly Control Bar's hidden modules, not to mention the impoverished PRV...) are actually having me (and others...) going away from X1.... The more I use it, the more I find it WAY much slower than SONAR 8.5.... a real pity.... hoping for (some) urgent future changes into (some) past glorious features....
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gwp99
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/12 17:24:34
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gothic.angel
not to mention the impoverished PRV...
would you mind elaborating... (I ask because the only reason I looked at X1 (and Sonar) was because of the midi - I haven't yet gotten into the midi editing yet as I have spent most of my time setting up my Templates and feeling my way around the interface)
post edited by gwp99 - 2011/06/12 17:27:39
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yorolpal
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/12 17:27:11
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I am always amused by those of us who (many times without even knowing it) basically tell anyone else who doesn't use Sonar the same way they do that not only are they wrong they are dimbulbs to boot! IMHO the more options that any software package gives the end user to accomplish the same tasks the better. Remember...one man's ceiling is another man's floor. But, basically what Cake did with X1 was simply said to a large part of their existing user base we honestly do not care whether you prefer this or that method or option that we've provided and you have grown used to over the years. We are removing them. And changing others. And in some cases putting in new ones that don't actually work yet. Get used to it. I'm trying;-)
post edited by yorolpal - 2011/06/12 17:28:54
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gothic.angel
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/12 17:33:27
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rbowser
I like me 8.5, I use it every day. X1 lies there on my hard drive serving not much more purpose than to be a curiosity piece. I've had it since the day it was released, I've spent many hours with it, went through the long video tutorial series - I even come on this Forum to see if I can help people with it. But I'm still using the program that works best for me, 8.5. No crazy business of needing to hide a grossly enlarged toolbar just to make bounces, no hassling back and forth with grid resolutions, or click click clicking my way into menus for items that should be instantly available, no struggling with the half-baked screenset concept - and no eye strain from having to look at X1's boring, drab, lifeless looking GUI. And etc.
All IMHO.
Thank heavens Benstat's toolbar recoups a lot of Cakewalk's lost functionality, but isn't that a bizarre thing? - a user had to come along and fix what Cakewalk broke and doesn't plan on fixing.
And so forth.
Randy B.
Again, these, IMHO, are the ACTUAL points.... It's really bizarre that (nice) users like Benstat have to provide BACK what Cakewalk, WITHOUT NOTICE, took away but users are STILL asking for.... I'm really sorry to say it but, honestly, I believe it was not that (conceptually) fair from Cakewalk... and what they should is try to put things (soon...) right for those MANY disappointed customers... which doesn't mean to revert EVERYTHING back, of course.... ...the point is that SOME IMPORTANT customization aspects may surely be brought back, and both Tools and Control Bar are certainly URGENT ones......... Regards to all, mates.... 
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gothic.angel
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/12 17:46:16
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gwp99
gothic.angel
not to mention the impoverished PRV...
would you mind elaborating...
(I ask because the only reason I looked at X1 (and Sonar) was because of the midi - I haven't yet gotten into the midi editing yet as I have spent most of my time setting up my Templates and feeling my way around the interface)
Yes, MIDI in SONAR is great, the best out there, possibly.... and it was one of the reason I chose it for, too.... ...but in the new PRV in X1 They have taken all visible features and tools away (in this sense "impoverished")... resulting in making it so time-consuming and thus slower than previous versions, as you now have to dive into absurd, old style features-hiding menus and\or remembering keys... also the new "smart tool" needs extra-clicks...!!! ...Quite distracting... indeed....... The previous version, INSTEAD, had everything at hand, just ONE single click for almost ANY tool, at sight, giving instant visual feedback of what was on or off... ...such a huge loss... ...so fast and powerful it actually WAS........
post edited by gothic.angel - 2011/06/12 18:04:36
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JClosed
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/12 18:04:11
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Well - strong opinions here... And all because a question about a save button... remarkable... What can I say? I am using Sonar from version 6 (not that long as real old-timers), but in my opinion X1 is a step forward. Sure - it can be improved, but I must say I think (and that is my own opinion) the old interface was too stuffed with all those tiny buttons. I really like the clean-up that has been done. I think those people that feel natural with key-combo's feel at home, and people that use the mouse a lot feel a bit left out. So - some people win a bit and some loose a bit. For me the keys and key-combo's have a big positive point - you can use them without moving your mouse away from the place you are working. You can also use the keys without looking what you are doing (like you have to do when using a mouse), making concentrating on the task you are doing a lot more easy. As I said - this is pure personal, but I really would not like to go back to the old interface... This is best illustrated by two things.. The fact that I use X1 every day... And the fact that when I take a look at my boxes with 8 and 8.5 inside, I notice a distinct layer of dust on top of them. Need to say more (apart from the fact that I have to dust-off more often)? Guess not..
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gwp99
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Re:Where is the "Save" icon?
2011/06/12 18:09:02
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gothic.angel
Yes, MIDI in SONAR is great, the best out there, possibly.... and it was one of the reason I chose it for, too....
...but the new PRV in X1 is confusing, time-consuming and thus slower than previous versions, as you now have to dive into features-hiding menus and\or remembering keys... also the new "smart tool" needs extra-clicks...! Quite distracting....
The previous version, INSTEAD, had everything at hand, just ONE single click for almost ANY tool, at sight, giving instant visual feedback of what was on or off...
....so fast and powerful it WAS........
thanks very much for this reply...I am still trying to find the X1 custom user tool bar!
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