GjB
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Which instrument offers the most Synths, sweeps, atmospheric type sounds?
Hello everyone,
I'm a new (but old) guy who has finally bought Sonar Professional.
I'm currently learning the software, and enjoying the video tutorial 'Groove 3 Sonar Explained'.
I've always liked the Gary Numan type synth sounds, plus sweeps and atmospheric type moody sounds that mesmerize (and make me shiver, if I'm to be honest). Sorry if I'm using the wrong terminology when I say sweeps and such.
I realize that this is a noob type question, but which extra software would you use or recommend, to get many of these types of sounds out of the box? Most music I intend to make will probably be the above kind of thing (atmospheric, trance, techno, orchestral, etc.) - the type of sound played using chords, because I can't play the piano.
Thanks for your time. I just want to know what you would use or recommend. Feel free to PM me with any ideas too, so long as it all works within or alongside Sonar.
Grant
(ps. I did subscribe to Sonar but had to cancel some 18 months ago. This time I bought it.)
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SF_Green
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Re: Which instrument offers the most Synths, sweeps, atmospheric type sounds?
2017/06/28 01:33:51
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☄ Helpfulby EddieLotter 2017/06/29 02:34:52
Hi Grant, The Groove 3 videos are very good. You've made a good call there. To start I would really learn and experiment with the included synths that you got with Sonar. The Zeta 2 would be especially good for the type of music you are looking to make. That said, if you really want the Gary Numan Polymoog sound, Xils Labs is just about to come out with a Polymoog clone called PolyM. I've been listening to some of the demos on YouTube and it really sounds good. The other synth I would recommend would be Spectrasonic's Omnisphere 2 This is a really great synth, that does a lot, especially great atmospheric sounds and pads. But also does some really unique sounding leads. It's a monster of a synth. Cheers from SF, Bud
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GjB
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Re: Which instrument offers the most Synths, sweeps, atmospheric type sounds?
2017/06/28 02:22:55
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Thanks very much SF_Green.
I have always been interested in Omnisphere. It's a little expensive for me at this stage.
When I finish the tutorial and can get around Sonar more fluently, I'll try the demo of Zeta 2.
That PolyM sounds amazing on YouTube, especially if you are an old Gary Numan fan. I'll definitely keep my eyes out for that!
Thank you.
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abacab
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Re: Which instrument offers the most Synths, sweeps, atmospheric type sounds?
2017/06/28 03:31:12
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☄ Helpfulby EddieLotter 2017/06/29 02:34:39
You can actually do a lot with the z3ta+ classic that comes with Professional. Try that out before you spend any money. This free e-book covers a lot of synth programming topics using z3ta+ for many of the examples. How to Make a Noise: a Comprehensive Guide to Synthesizer Programminghttps://noisesculpture.com/how-to-make-a-noise-a-comprehensive-guide-to-synthesizer-programming/ The download link has the e-book in PDF format, as well as a z3ta+ patch bank for the examples. The other synths outlined in the book are rather dated now, but zeta+ has aged well. It's a very capable synth that sounds great, and is good to learn with. If you decide to try out Z3TA+ 2, you will find that the updated version is based on the same engine, with an updated GUI and a few new features. The author also made another e-book freely available that contains all the chapters that his publisher cut from the printed edition of his book "Cakewalk Synthesizers from presets to power user, 2nd edition". https://noisesculpture.com/cakewalk-synthesizers-downloads/ (follow the link "Please click on this link to access the download materials that accompany the second edition of the book"). Chapter 26 covers z3ta+, while Chapter 29 includes a walkthrough with sound designer Francesco Silvestri as he creates a few sounds for z3ta+. 
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GjB
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Re: Which instrument offers the most Synths, sweeps, atmospheric type sounds?
2017/06/28 04:30:44
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That's great. Thank you abacab.
I've downloaded the 2 books (and download materials) and I look forward to using those as tutorials.
Scanning through, I can see that it looks like a good way to learn more about z3ta, like you said.
I've bookmarked this thread too.
Much appreciated.
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abacab
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Re: Which instrument offers the most Synths, sweeps, atmospheric type sounds?
2017/06/28 13:23:30
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GjB
That's great. Thank you abacab.
I've downloaded the 2 books (and download materials) and I look forward to using those as tutorials.
Scanning through, I can see that it looks like a good way to learn more about z3ta, like you said.
I've bookmarked this thread too.
Much appreciated.
Hope you find those useful. The "How To Make a Noise" book has some very useful general info about synth architecture, filters, envelopes, sound sources, and modulation, that all synths have in common. If you learn how to do that with one synth, then you can likely master them all! I always like to point out this "One Synth Challenge" contest over at the KVR forum, that requires all contestants submit a song that is recorded and mixed with only one synth (more than one instance is allowed) an all of the tracks in the mix. You can stream and hear the archived track list from OSC #31 that used z3ta+ for the challenge. I really find it inspiring! Some of the styles aren't always my favorites, but it gives an idea of what is possible! OSC 31: Z3ta+ https://sites.google.com/site/kvrosc/osc-31-z3ta
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Magic Russ
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Re: Which instrument offers the most Synths, sweeps, atmospheric type sounds?
2017/06/28 22:11:58
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I always thought Rapture was a lot more atmospheric and moody than z3ta+.
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abacab
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Re: Which instrument offers the most Synths, sweeps, atmospheric type sounds?
2017/06/28 22:16:32
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Magic Russ
I always thought Rapture was a lot more atmospheric and moody than z3ta+.
Yup, but the OP has Sonar Professional, which only comes with Rapture LE.
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GjB
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Re: Which instrument offers the most Synths, sweeps, atmospheric type sounds?
2017/06/28 23:42:39
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abacab
Hope you find those useful. The "How To Make a Noise" book has some very useful general info about synth architecture, filters, envelopes, sound sources, and modulation, that all synths have in common.
If you learn how to do that with one synth, then you can likely master them all!
I always like to point out this "One Synth Challenge" contest over at the KVR forum, that requires all contestants submit a song that is recorded and mixed with only one synth (more than one instance is allowed) an all of the tracks in the mix.
You can stream and hear the archived track list from OSC #31 that used z3ta+ for the challenge. I really find it inspiring! Some of the styles aren't always my favorites, but it gives an idea of what is possible!
OSC 31: Z3ta+
https://sites.google.com/site/kvrosc/osc-31-z3ta
Thanks abacab. Yes, it does give an idea of what is possible. I'll listen to the rest of them, and read the books after watching Groove 3 Sonar Explained. Thanks
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GjB
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Re: Which instrument offers the most Synths, sweeps, atmospheric type sounds?
2017/06/28 23:51:43
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Magic Russ
I always thought Rapture was a lot more atmospheric and moody than z3ta+.
Thanks Magic Russ. I have always liked the example piece of music 'Cosmic Lead' demonstrated on the Rapture Pro page. It actually just made me shiver listening to it again. (Maybe because I used to watch/stream the TV show House, which had that or similar Massive Attack (Teardrop) music in the intro.) As abacab mentioned, I have Rapture LE at the moment, which also doesn't have Cosmic Lead. No big deal though at this stage. I'm learning to walk before I try to run. Thanks.
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abacab
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Re: Which instrument offers the most Synths, sweeps, atmospheric type sounds?
2017/06/29 00:50:18
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Yup, "Synths, sweeps, atmospheric type sounds" is a fairly broad category of that many synths could qualify for. The best plan is to first learn what you have already that can do much of that, and then decide what you cannot do with that. Then you will have a good reason to spend money on something else. I think that the factory preset libraries sometimes don't present a synth's capabilities in the best way. They are provided to market the synth, and often are geared towards the intended target audience. A lot of the new synths seem to target the EDM producer crowd. So sometimes it may be best to learn how to kick the tires yourself, and take it for a spin by tweaking the presets yourself. Add some effects, layer some different sounds together, etc. Plus there is a big pile of free instruments that you can explore before laying out some cash. Check out this post for a list: http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3542942 Then there is always Omnisphere. That is the king of atmospheric, movie soundtrack quality sounds. But it comes with a hefty price. Has a lot of fans, though!
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SF_Green
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Re: Which instrument offers the most Synths, sweeps, atmospheric type sounds?
2017/06/29 01:12:03
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Magic Russ
I always thought Rapture was a lot more atmospheric and moody than z3ta+.
Yes, but he also mentions "trance and techno" thus I threw Zeta out for that reason. I should have mentioned Rapture.
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abacab
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Re: Which instrument offers the most Synths, sweeps, atmospheric type sounds?
2017/06/29 01:43:59
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The main thing to realize about synths is that they all mostly produce sound the same way, using various sound sources, or combinations of sources that range from virtual analog oscillators (sine, saw, triangle, pulse, etc), wavetables, FM, modeled instruments, sampled instruments, etc.
So results can vary based on the sound sources used, and how they get processed.
What you are hopefully buying when you pay for a commercial synth is an easier workflow to make the type of sounds that you want, as well as an inspiring factory library (presets) designed by professional sound designers that you can explore and maybe tweak. Or if you are inclined to do so, roll your own sounds.
Spending time with the bundled synths, some free synths, and a few demos should give you a good idea of where to head next.
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GjB
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Re: Which instrument offers the most Synths, sweeps, atmospheric type sounds?
2017/06/30 11:59:40
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Thank you for the advice. I'll focus on what I have for now, and learn the software. Then I'll try out a few full-version demos of some synths, to see what I might be missing. Thanks for the free instrument thread, too.
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abacab
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Re: Which instrument offers the most Synths, sweeps, atmospheric type sounds?
2017/06/30 12:54:12
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I will just add that my favorite 3rd party synth at the moment is SynthMaster 2.8 from KV331 Audio. The factory version comes for a very affordable list price of $99 with 1250 presets. http://www.synthmaster.com/ Demos available, as well as a Player version with the 1250 presets for $29, or Player "Free" with 300 presets. I bought the Player and received a discount code for the upgrade to the full version. Plus they run occasional discount deals. They are working on a version 3 for release next year that will be a $30 upgrade, and will include full wavetable support and other workflow improvements. It ticks all the boxes, and I doubt there are many sounds it cannot make. It covers various types of sound sources. It is probably not the best synth to start out with, some find the UI a bit confusing at first. The modulation scheme is probably the hardest to get a handle on. But it is learnable if you know what an oscillator, filter, envelope, LFO, etc, are. My current shopping list has several synths by u-he. https://www.u-he.com/cms/ I have the u-he freebies (on my list), as well as a few demos of his best commercial synths. I think that Diva and Zebra 2 are probably the best sounding virtual synths I have ever heard. I have held off because they are not cheap, and I already have plenty to work with. But one of those will probably be next.
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mumpcake
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Re: Which instrument offers the most Synths, sweeps, atmospheric type sounds?
2017/06/30 16:01:32
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Synthmaster is of course amazingly capable and regularly goes on sale for BF.
Rapture was included with CM magazine a while back. I think you can get the back issue for $5 from Google Play or Zinio and that will give you access to the CM vault where you download all the included software.
Absynth would be another one to check out. It's known for atmospheric pads.
If you don't play piano well, check out EZ keys. It has an engine which adapts patterns to the chords you specify, and you can redirect the midi out to another instrument. That's another one which usually goes on sale for Black Friday.
Since you have z3ta+ classic, look for the Muz3um soundset - it's dedicated to replicating the sound of older synths like Moog, Buchla, ARP, etc.
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abacab
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Re: Which instrument offers the most Synths, sweeps, atmospheric type sounds?
2017/06/30 17:25:37
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abacab
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Re: Which instrument offers the most Synths, sweeps, atmospheric type sounds?
2017/06/30 17:32:46
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Wibbles
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Re: Which instrument offers the most Synths, sweeps, atmospheric type sounds?
2017/07/01 07:15:40
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I'm off to see the Wibble, the wonderful Wibble of Wobble
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Loptec
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Re: Which instrument offers the most Synths, sweeps, atmospheric type sounds?
2017/07/01 08:30:49
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I'd say Omnisphere2 is the one you should go for
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GjB
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Re: Which instrument offers the most Synths, sweeps, atmospheric type sounds?
2017/07/01 13:54:38
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Thanks for the info about synths. I've been doing a fair bit of research and need to spend time learning Sonar now.
Omnisphere2 is out of the question at my skill level (and financially) at the moment.
Yes, I saw the u-he synths in a few top best synth videos on YouTube.
Some Nexus2 sounds are my cup of tea, but that's pretty expensive too at this stage.
I'm very interested in PolyM when that is released.
I'd be tempted to enquire more about Wibbles's unregistered CM version of Rapture, but I'm still trying to setup my controller keyboard properly, so I should concentrate on the basics, watch tutorials, continue learning, and ask a few noob questions for now.
Thanks for your opinions, advice and hints. Much appreciated.
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abacab
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Re: Which instrument offers the most Synths, sweeps, atmospheric type sounds?
2017/07/01 14:42:09
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GjB
Thanks for the info about synths. I've been doing a fair bit of research and need to spend time learning Sonar now.
Omnisphere2 is out of the question at my skill level (and financially) at the moment.
Yes, I saw the u-he synths in a few top best synth videos on YouTube.
Some Nexus2 sounds are my cup of tea, but that's pretty expensive too at this stage.
I'm very interested in PolyM when that is released.
I'd be tempted to enquire more about Wibbles's unregistered CM version of Rapture, but I'm still trying to setup my controller keyboard properly, so I should concentrate on the basics, watch tutorials, continue learning, and ask a few noob questions for now.
Thanks for your opinions, advice and hints. Much appreciated.
Good luck on your journey. Just relax and take it a step at a time. Trying to swallow the whole thing at once can be challenging. Just getting a new DAW setup and working with a new controller can be a big project in itself. Saw your other thread where you just picked up a new M-Audio Code61. It looks good! I have an old M-Audio Axiom, and the keys still feel great, with velocity & aftertouch, and the pitch bend and mod wheels are very functional. Solid build, and so the Code series look like a good replacement if I ever need to do that. But if you can still grab Rapture for $5, that would give you plenty of atmosphere, when you are ready! Definitely worth more than that price!
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abacab
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Re: Which instrument offers the most Synths, sweeps, atmospheric type sounds?
2017/07/01 14:55:30
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Another thing that I just noticed about the Code61, is that the software bundle includes two synths, AIR Loom & AIR Hybrid 3. I think you will find that Hybrid 3 offers a huge library with some very interesting sounds. Have fun with that if it came with your bundle! http://www.airmusictech.com/product/hybrid-3 I also have the AIR Loom as well, and love some of the unique sounds that it can make. But it may be a little advanced due to the dedicated additive synthesis mode that it uses. Quite different from the typical subtractive synthesis modes used by mainstream virtual analog synths. It is fun to explore, though!
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GjB
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Re: Which instrument offers the most Synths, sweeps, atmospheric type sounds?
2017/07/01 15:12:15
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abacab
..
But if you can still grab Rapture for $5, that would give you plenty of atmosphere, when you are ready! Definitely worth more than that price!
Good idea. Thanks. I just did. (And the bundled software was done yesterday.) 
post edited by GjB - 2017/07/01 16:08:16
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Wibbles
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Re: Which instrument offers the most Synths, sweeps, atmospheric type sounds?
2017/07/01 18:04:45
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Well, that saves me having to look for my copy of the mag. I'm having some building work done on my hovel and everything is in chaos at the moment. But, yeah, the offer was there. 
I'm off to see the Wibble, the wonderful Wibble of Wobble
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GjB
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Re: Which instrument offers the most Synths, sweeps, atmospheric type sounds?
2017/07/02 00:56:51
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Wibbles
Well, that saves me having to look for my copy of the mag. I'm having some building work done on my hovel and everything is in chaos at the moment. But, yeah, the offer was there.
Thanks
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Wookiee
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Re: Which instrument offers the most Synths, sweeps, atmospheric type sounds?
2017/07/19 18:11:39
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If you are looking for those old analogue sounds I would seriously check out Arturia's range, in particular their V collections. Such soft synth toys as the Jupiter 8 V, the CS 80 V, Matrix V, Mini (Moog) V, ARP 2600, (Moog) Modular, Synclavier, and many more useful keyboards.
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GjB
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Re: Which instrument offers the most Synths, sweeps, atmospheric type sounds?
2017/07/19 23:09:23
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Thanks Wookiee,
I'll look into Arturia's V collections.
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abacab
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Re: Which instrument offers the most Synths, sweeps, atmospheric type sounds?
2017/07/20 00:03:51
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GjB
Thanks Wookiee,
I'll look into Arturia's V collections.
I have demos of several of Arturia's full instruments, as well as Analog Lab. They are all excellent. The full V-Collection currently lists for $499, but was recently on sale 50% off at $249. But I think the bang for the buck is Analog Lab at $89. It has 5000+ presets from the V-Collection of 17 modeled vintage keyboards. The preset browser search lets you narrow down the type of sound you are looking for, and the instrument, if desired. The full instruments all have demos, and are excellent recreations of the hardware interfaces. But unless you really know the hardware, you will need to dedicate some time to learning each instrument. The Lab is the quickest way to get all the sounds, but you will be limited to the 20 knobs/sliders in the interface for sound shaping, and you cannot create patches from scratch. The sound designer has dedicated the most relevant functions to the controls for each preset. But it still rocks! Check out the free demo here: https://www.arturia.com/products/analog-classics/analoglab/overview
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abacab
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Re: Which instrument offers the most Synths, sweeps, atmospheric type sounds?
2017/07/20 00:19:45
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And just in case you missed it, the IK Multimedia Syntronik is being released tomorrow, and this is the last day to get in on the $99 pre-order price. http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/syntronik/ "Syntronik is a cutting-edge virtual synthesizer that raises the bar in sound quality and flexibility thanks to the most advanced sampling techniques combined with a new hybrid sample and modeling synthesis engine. Syntronik includes 17 amazing instruments, available as a collection or separately, with over 2,000 preset sounds covering a wide selection from 38 of the most iconic to ultra-rare and painstakingly multi-sampled vintage synthesizers. Syntronik’s synthesis engine goes well beyond traditional sampling thanks to a brand new analog modeled filter section created with the utmost expertise from IK, the pioneer in virtual circuit modeling. This is coupled with exclusive DRIFT™ technology to accurately reproduce the behavior of oscillators from real hardware synths. All of this combined with an effects section that is unrivaled in the world of virtual instruments along with advanced features like 4-part layers, splits and arpeggiators make Syntronik the ultimate source of inspiration with the widest palette of synthesizer sounds ranging from exact reproductions of the originals to sounds never heard before that will stand out from the crowd in productions covering any genre and style." Here are a couple of videos demonstrating the new synth collection. http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3632665
DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ...
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