PH68
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Re: Who really uses Melodyne and considers it indispensable?
2016/01/16 17:26:34
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It's a very powerful tool. don't be fooled by thinking it's "just for vocal". I, like others have said, have used it on lots of stuff. Had the Editor for a while, but recently upgraded to Melodyne 4 Studio.
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mikedocy
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Re: Who really uses Melodyne and considers it indispensable?
2016/01/16 23:19:05
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Indispensable. The best thing about Melodyne is that it can be used in such a way that no one knows you are using it; it can be gently used for a natural sound. OTOH, It can be adjusted to sound like "Auto-Tune", if you really want that chromatic sound. I use it mildly on a singer so it doesn't sound "auto-tuned". It can really improve the vocal track. Some singers use way too much vibrato on a few notes. I can reduce the vibrato on select notes. Used on bass guitar. Sometimes a cheap (or poorly set up) instrument will have intonation problems. Melodyne cures that. Used to match the tuning of various instruments to an acoustic piano. Every once in a while I'll get an acoustic guitar track from someone that used their tuner instead of tuning to the AC piano. Select all notes and slide the tuning up or down as necessary. Cures the tuning with no artifacts. No need to tell the guitar player to redo his track. Lead guitar: The guitarist can play a killer solo but sometimes the bends don't reach the final note. Fixed with Melodyne. Ditto violin. Drums: create a midi drum track for kick and snare. Mix these midi samples with the real drum to make it bigger/better/fatter. Melodyne also used to stretch a vocal "ahh". Singer sang the part too short: Stretched with Melodyne. Timing issues with bass guitar, some notes too long, some notes too short: Melodyne to the rescue. No need for bass player to punch-in or redo parts.
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michaelhanson
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Re: Who really uses Melodyne and considers it indispensable?
2016/01/16 23:43:42
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I don't know if it's indispensable...but it sure comes in handy at the right times. Having the right tool for the right job, so to speak.
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jshep0102
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Re: Who really uses Melodyne and considers it indispensable?
2016/01/16 23:47:37
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You can lengthen/shorten/move/change pitch/detect tempo/adjust the material down to it's core for God's sake - who wouldn't want it AND use it?!?
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Fleer
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Re: Who really uses Melodyne and considers it indispensable?
2016/01/17 01:14:16
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"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
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olemon
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Re: Who really uses Melodyne and considers it indispensable?
2016/01/17 07:28:10
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I'm producing my own songs and the music is mostly in the box, but I record my own vocals on every song. I've recorded other singers a few times. I'm usually on pitch, or close to it, but I've used V-Vocal and now Melodyne to make small adjustments. In Melodyne I'll select a key and manually tune with the sliders set near 15%. At one time I thought I'd used Melodyne to create harmonies, but more and more I just sing those too. I did use V-Vocal to adjust consonants, breath noise, volumes and such on vocal clips, but now I mostly edit/automate with Sonar's envelopes. I will use Nectar 2 for harmony, when I get lazy and the song can handle those kind of background vocals. This tune contains of all of the above: https://www.reverbnation....ong/25055688-the-storm
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Sidroe
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Re: Who really uses Melodyne and considers it indispensable?
2016/01/17 07:57:49
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It makes me wonder how all those classic hits were recorded in the "old days" before all this correction technology was invented? It's funny now to listen to the oldies and classic rock stations and hear all the performances that make you wonder, "Why didn't they fix the intonation or adjust the length of that of that phrase?" or "Geez! It seems like they could have at least told Hendrix, Clapton, and Page that their guitars were a little out of tune!!" How about, "Gosh! Mr. Dylan! That vocal is really all over the place pitch-wise. Don't worry. I can fix it with Auto-Talent!!" This is all said in jest!!! I do not mean to poke fun at anyone. I just am concerned that sheer emotional and well practiced TALENT is falling by the wayside. I am all for any technology that helps us in our day to day struggle to get the best performance we can but I think sometimes we all get too obsessive in our hunt to correct EVERYTHING! A drummer I worked with for many, many years looked at me, after seeing the first drum machine in a studio and said, "Well, Sid! I guess it's only a matter of time before they'll figure out how to put guitar players in a box and we'll both be out of work." BTW, he still plays his butt off sitting behind a set of Roland V-Drums!!!! Don't worry. I upgraded my Melodyne 2 Essential to 4 Essential. And I will probably figure someway to afford the jump to Studio. The only thing that bothers me is since 2 came in Sonar I have only used it once on a couple of bass notes. Boy, I need to see a doctor about this GAS!!!! LOL!
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bitflipper
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Re: Who really uses Melodyne and considers it indispensable?
2016/01/17 10:05:27
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Well said, Sidroe! I once watched a late-night infomercial for classic C&W hits that featured old live TV performances. Had I not known their vintage, I would have assumed they'd been tuned. But such things were not an option in the 50's, 60's and 70's. Those guys were just singing on such good pitch that they sounded as accurate as Britney Spears. ( And live-mixing their own foreground/background/harmony balances in real time by adjusting the mike distance as they sang.) But I noticed another telling observation: few of them had the good looks of a model. Few of them would be successful today, I'm afraid. I blame it on the industry's desire to duplicate performers like Elvis Presley, Rickie Nelson and Pat Boone - performers who both looked good and could sing. Once it became possible to make anybody sound "good", you could select the next superstar by looks alone. One of the earliest of those, AFAIK, was Billy J Kramer, a handsome guy who couldn't carry a tune in a bucket. He had success, though, via multiple takes, lots of editing, professional singers subbing parts, a very good band, and perhaps most important, a couple catchy Lennon/McCartney tunes that had been rejected as not good enough for the Beatles. Mr. Kramer was very successful with record sales, but tellingly did not tour much. Here he is, obviously lip-synching (he didn't even do that well):
post edited by bitflipper - 2016/01/17 10:21:51
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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yorolpal
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Re: Who really uses Melodyne and considers it indispensable?
2016/01/17 11:13:30
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Actually there was pitch correction applied not infrequently before any digital hard or software was available. It was done by subtly controlling the speed of the tape playback on one machine and recording it on another. I remember a session we did where a relatively famous singer was hired to sing a jingle package for a national heat and air company. She was a joy to work with (and still performs today) but she was dreadfully flat. We used the vari-speed on our mastering deck to...painfully slowly and requiring many tries...pitch her up on the worst notes. When I listen to those tracks today I can still hear she is off. But for most folks it just passes by unnoticed.
We would've killed for Melodyne back then.
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michaelhanson
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Re: Who really uses Melodyne and considers it indispensable?
2016/01/17 11:36:38
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There are whole websites dedicated to locating all of the mistakes that were on Beatles albums. I love all of those warts, every one of them. In today's music business, they wouldn't be put out that way. In today's Song Forums, those items would be flushed out in a second and be the topic of the moment. It's seems that is the new norm for what is expected. I wish it would swing back the other direction some. I tend to leave some of the imperfections in my songs, but I am often told they need correction.
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yorolpal
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Re: Who really uses Melodyne and considers it indispensable?
2016/01/17 11:44:16
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Oh absolutely MH...I wouldn't change a thing on The Kingsmen's version of Louie Louie ( to name a favorite) which is riddled with almost every imaginable recording and performance flaw. It's always a judgement call and one should always err on the side of groove and vibe IMHO.
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bitflipper
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Re: Who really uses Melodyne and considers it indispensable?
2016/01/17 12:14:00
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Talk about guerrilla recording, that Kingsmen track was made in one pass with a single microphone! You couldn't have fixed the vocal even if the tools had been available.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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yorolpal
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Re: Who really uses Melodyne and considers it indispensable?
2016/01/17 14:13:52
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Well, you might be able to now with Celemony's DNA tech. Split everything out, clean up the vocal and see for yourself once and for all that there were no racy lyrics:-)
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mrneil2
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Re: Who really uses Melodyne and considers it indispensable?
2016/01/17 15:51:05
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"Well, you might be able to now with Celemony's DNA tech. Split everything out, clean up the vocal and see for yourself once and for all that there were no racy lyrics:-)"
This could be a contest. Remix Louie Louie using Melodyne
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yorolpal
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Re: Who really uses Melodyne and considers it indispensable?
2016/01/17 18:04:23
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That would be like colorizing Citizen Kane. Or would it?
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SmokeyJ628
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Re: Who really uses Melodyne and considers it indispensable?
2016/01/17 18:06:18
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I've found Melodyne to be a really helpful tool to analyze my singing. Ican see how close I am to pitches, see how much I tend to "scoop" notes, and how much pitch wobbling is there. Quite eye opening. You can use it to help become a better singer.
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rebel007
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Re: Who really uses Melodyne and considers it indispensable?
2016/01/19 01:17:13
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I feel no shame in saying I use Melodyne frequently, and is one only just a few FX I use outside of the ones that come preinstalled with Sonar. Most of my recording concentrates on vocals and I will use whatever FX I can to make those vocal lines pop. There are some musicians that feel pride in the fact they use no pitch correction software but have no trouble admitting to re-amping a guitar solo, adding reverb to a cold vocal line, or even overdubbing a fluffed note. I don't see any difference whatsoever.
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Lord Tim
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Re: Who really uses Melodyne and considers it indispensable?
2016/01/19 01:52:21
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Yep, absolutely necessary for how I prefer to work. For me the end justifies the means. The listener isn't going to give half a damn about how proud the talent was about how they recorded the take, and in most cases they'd never know anyway since it's not usually disclosed how a track was recorded. All people care about is if they like it or don't like it. The way I see it is we can do a whole day of take after take after take to get things perfect and possibly losing the vibe and likely wearing the talent out, or we can get a killer performance and touch up the bits that are a bit rough. Pitch and timing can be easily adjusted, vibe and intensity can not. So long as that's in the bag and we have a great core performance, why put yourself and your talent through unnecessary work? As I said, no one else will likely know or care. The other thing is backing vocals. For the silly amount of vocal layering I do, getting everything locked in super tight, especially dealing with a lot of different vocalists of various ability is a must. I like those big wall of vocal harmony parts and if a couple of the guys are off... argh, man it grates on me! So yeah, absolutely - pitch correction software is a must in my studio.
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Vastman
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Re: Who really uses Melodyne and considers it indispensable?
2016/01/19 03:26:00
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As a home studio singer/songwriter/player i always end up buying tools like M editor then not using it...i find comping much more fun and sitting there tweaking stuff less exciting. Or... I'm just vst addicted and ultimately lazy...idk...but i end up just using a small part of my rather huge arsenal... M4studio looks amazing... I swore off vst purchases this year to learn what i have..but M4studio looks amazing...i can't repeat it enough and truly appreciate this thread...as i do need to begin spending time learning some of the tricks... The tempo system...the ability to just free form play and sing...omg...thank you. Watching the vids...I'm pretty floored... Technically this it's an upgrade...right? Right! Thanks for the liberal buy in timeframe...it will allow me to recover from the huge number of amazing vsts i got last quarter...And it's hard to pay bills gardening during rainstorms! I think M4s has just moved to the front end of my "really learn to use" list.
post edited by Vastman - 2016/01/19 03:45:02
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Glyn Barnes
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Re: Who really uses Melodyne and considers it indispensable?
2016/01/19 04:49:16
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I was playing around with studio last night. I recorded a few bars on my electric mountain dulcimer, cleaned it up and converted to MIDI. I then used the MIDI to play Indiginus mountain dulcimer in Kontakt. It sounded pretty good!! Far more realistic than playing from the keyboard.
I also recorded my electric baritone dulcimer. This has a double melody course. Melodyne correctly identified there were two strings on the course, assigning two blobs. Pretty cleaver.
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stevec
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Re: Who really uses Melodyne and considers it indispensable?
2016/01/19 14:48:06
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I always enjoy these type of discussions. My primary period of "musical growth" was the late 60's through late 70's, so I can identify with every comment above regarding the vocalists of that era and what they were able to do. Unfortunately my vocal talents exist on an entirely different planet so I'm glad Melodyne exists! I do attempt what Vastman mentions by shooting for the best takes possible, but as Tim also mentioned there's a limit to that... and the point of diminishing returns happens all too fast. Did I mention I'm glad that Melodyne exists? Given the use I've gotten out of Editor v2 I am so looking forward to Studio v4.
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dubdisciple
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Re: Who really uses Melodyne and considers it indispensable?
2016/01/19 15:22:51
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Those thinking , " the singers i work with don't need pitch correction " may be decieving themselves. Very few people have 100% perfect pitch 100% of thd time, particularly during live perfomences where each of accompanying instruments may drift in and out of tune. A friend of mine once dug out acapellas of noted singers to illustrate that even the greats occasionally drifted. Fortunately the human ear is fairly tolerant of imperfection. I suspect melodyne is used far more for effects, harmonies, artistic decisions to change pitch more than to try to rescue someone that cannot sing at all. Even in pop music where people who cannot sing make hits with autotund, there is no pretense that person can sing. People like the effect for some reason. Future is selling buttloads of records and even his staunchest supporters would not argue he could sing a lick. I am fortunate that nobody I deal with desires that sound or even is under the delusion i can make a non-singer sound good. They do love some of the crestive things that can be done.
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bitflipper
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Re: Who really uses Melodyne and considers it indispensable?
2016/01/20 09:12:20
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There are those who'd have no career without pitch manipulation. Before: After:
post edited by bitflipper - 2016/01/20 09:25:22
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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sharke
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Re: Who really uses Melodyne and considers it indispensable?
2016/01/20 11:23:13
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☄ Helpfulby Kamikaze 2016/01/23 09:30:56
I have only used it for pitch and timing correction once, on a guitar part. I've used it for pitch alteration, i.e. changing the melody of a vocal sample. However where I love to use it is it's audio to MIDI conversion. I use that ALL the time. For instance I recently wanted to use a keyboard riff from Native Instruments' George Duke library but with a more contemporary synth sound. The polyphonic mode did a great job of creating the MIDI for me. But I don't always use it for such straightforward conversion tasks. One thing I love doing to get the creative juices flowing is to take an audio sample - anything from a solo instrument part to an ensemble or band - and running it through Melodyne polyphonic to see what it comes up with MIDI wise. If it's a busy part with multiple parts, what usually comes out is somewhat different than the source material because of indistinct notes and harmonics. But that's what I love. It gives me some raw material to chip away at like a sculptor. It's a totally different approach to starting with a blank piano roll. I delete notes that I don't like, move others around and maybe even add a couple of my own. I don't consider it cheating because I'm using my musical judgment to "sculpt" it, and what I end up with is usually something wonderfully quirky and colorful that I would have probably not come up with without Melodyne. I love it!
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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sharke
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Re: Who really uses Melodyne and considers it indispensable?
2016/01/20 11:26:19
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dubdisciple Fortunately the human ear is fairly tolerant of imperfection.
I would go further and suggest that the human ear, like the human eye, likes imperfection. Having said that, it's not an exclusive like. It can also appreciate perfection too. Sometimes there is nothing like the clinical perfection of a drum machine in the right context. It appeals to a different part of the brain.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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