John T
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RE: Why Does Sonar Not Get The Respect Of Other DAWS?
2007/07/29 18:15:49
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ORIGINAL: Rain
I see. I guess I'm just used to the way it works and/or am still using the mouse too much. Okay for the pause button then, nothing against it, as long as the current options are still available.
Absolutely, it's not a replacement, it's an additional thing. A replacement would be just as annoying; we need what it does now, but we also need something extra.
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John
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RE: Why Does Sonar Not Get The Respect Of Other DAWS?
2007/07/29 18:19:31
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Darn I have to agree with Rain too. Darn it.  It really makes no difference to me but if others want it I will have to be for it. Best John
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John T
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RE: Why Does Sonar Not Get The Respect Of Other DAWS?
2007/07/29 18:22:04
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Here's what I'd like: Pause Jog wheel Varispeed (with pitch lock on/off, like Traktor) A real transport, in other words.
post edited by John T - 2007/07/29 18:28:48
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John
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RE: Why Does Sonar Not Get The Respect Of Other DAWS?
2007/07/29 18:28:05
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Here's what I'd like: Pause Jog wheel Varispeed (with pitch lock on/off, like Traktor) A real transport, in other words. To have a real transport you need to get a real transport. I hear off to the side in a low voice saying "Mackie Control" with a slight echo! It has all that you are asking for and then some! Maybe CW should include a MC in 7. They would need to enlarge their sales department. Best John
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John T
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RE: Why Does Sonar Not Get The Respect Of Other DAWS?
2007/07/29 18:33:28
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ORIGINAL: John
Here's what I'd like: Pause Jog wheel Varispeed (with pitch lock on/off, like Traktor) A real transport, in other words.
To have a real transport you need to get a real transport.
Well, yeah, right now, you do. But there's no reason why this stuff can't be done in software.
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John
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RE: Why Does Sonar Not Get The Respect Of Other DAWS?
2007/07/29 18:46:08
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The things you listed are in the Cubase SX 3 transport except the pause. Even so I rely on the MC and there is no kind of software that can replace it. I find it incredible that if given a choice one would not opt for a real CS. I will refrain from saying IMO. Because I think that is patently clear. Best John P.S. Why do some use the IMHO at all or the IMO? Is it that the posting was not opinion? Further IMHO versus my Dishonest opinion? Rather redundant IMO. 
post edited by John - 2007/07/29 18:58:17
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John T
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RE: Why Does Sonar Not Get The Respect Of Other DAWS?
2007/07/29 18:57:52
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ORIGINAL: John
The things you listed are in the Cubase SX 3 transport except the pause.
Yeah, I know. But I can't get along with Cubase, never have been able to. God knows I've tried. P.S. Why do some use the IMHO at all or the IMO? Is it that the posting was not opinion? Further IMHO versus my Dishonest opinion? Rather redundant IMO.
Ha, indeed. I'm of the view that "in my opinion" is implicit whenever you say something, and doesn't need declaring, generally speaking. Imagine how tedious reviews would be otherwise: "In my opinion, the new Prince album is okay. Though it doesn't match his earlier work, n my opinion. In my opinion, track four marks a fairly good return to form. But in my opinion, he doesn't manage to sustain this for the entire album. In my opinion. 6/10. In my opinion."
post edited by John T - 2007/07/29 19:05:06
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garrigus
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RE: Why Does Sonar Not Get The Respect Of Other DAWS?
2007/07/29 19:48:23
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ORIGINAL: F@KKER
F@KKER
/btw garrigus, respects to you :)
No worries... I came to grips with the fact (a long time ago) that I'm not always right.  Thanks! Scott -- Scott R. Garrigus - Author of Cakewalk, Sound Forge 6, 7/8 and SONAR 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Power books. ** Get Sonar 6 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! ** http://www.garrigus.com/ Publisher of DigiFreq. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial and learn cool music technology tips and techniques by getting a FREE subscription to DigiFreq... over 20,000 readers can't be wrong! Go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/
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garrigus
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RE: Why Does Sonar Not Get The Respect Of Other DAWS?
2007/07/29 19:50:58
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ORIGINAL: John T
Space stops and returns to the previous start position, and CTRL+space stops and changes the start position to the place you stopped at. Pause would stop - or rather pause - and neither return to nor update the start position. Add me to the list of people who'd find that useful.
Ah ha! I see what you're looking for now. Yes, that would be useful. Of course, if you're working with a particular start time or multiple start times on a regular basis, you could simply put markers there and turn off the option that I mentioned earlier. So you'd have your start times and a pause function. Yes, it's workaround, but it works... just in case you need it right now. Scott -- Scott R. Garrigus - Author of Cakewalk, Sound Forge 6, 7/8 and SONAR 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Power books. ** Get Sonar 6 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! ** http://www.garrigus.com/ Publisher of DigiFreq. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial and learn cool music technology tips and techniques by getting a FREE subscription to DigiFreq... over 20,000 readers can't be wrong! Go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/
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thomasabarnes
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RE: Why Does Sonar Not Get The Respect Of Other DAWS?
2007/07/29 20:54:55
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Hum... How can I relate this so users can understand?
OK. It's like this: Throughout history people were reluctant to taake easily to change. Let's look at the Bible versions, for example. People were reluncctant to accept a new Bible version. such as the Vulgate, or mordern Bible versions other than the King James version. why? because change is something other than the norm that has been established. But when one becomes informed and noticed that the new Bible versions were based on a product that entailed research and sciienticfic disccoveries, gradually, people began to accept the improved more accurate translations of the mordern versions of the Bible.
So, while there's not much proliferation of SONAR in the most popular mags and online articles right now, give it some time, and I think SONAR will be talked about more in these and in music producttion circles.
Of cource, this is just my humble opinion, but I don't think I'm an idiot. LOL
SONAR is rising slowly, but surely!
 "It's not a song till it touches your heart. It's not a song till it tears you apart!" Lyrics of Amy Grant. SONAR Platinum X64 (jBridge), Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit, Core i7 990X Extreme Edition Processor 3.46 GHz 6 Cores, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, Crucial Ballistix 24GB 1333MHz DDR3 @1333 MHz, TASCAM UH-7000, Behringer X-Touch, EVGA GTX 980TI Superclocked 6GB, 1TB Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 150GB, 320GB, 1TB 7200rpm HDDs
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F@KKER
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RE: Why Does Sonar Not Get The Respect Of Other DAWS?
2007/07/29 20:59:38
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just for the sake of, ermm, the sake of the sake- my workaround is to put a temporary marker (x), at the now time and then when I need to go back, I go to nearest previous marker. yes, it works but...
F@KKER
/many ways to skin a cat, but they are all bloody messy...
Someone said: I've had more time to play with this, and am withdrawing the bug remarks.
This appears to work as designed and is actually a pretty cool feature.
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droddey
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RE: Why Does Sonar Not Get The Respect Of Other DAWS?
2007/07/29 21:02:52
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Definitely we need the pause. The biggest need I have for it is when editing my BFD drum stuff. I'm going through, listening to a section and when something strikes my ear, I want to stop and have a look. I may decide to keep going or I may stop. If I stop, I don't want to move the now time to there, because I'm continually listening to this section. Same for doing volume envelope editing and things of that sort. You are doing it in the context of a section that you want to keep listening to. Having to remember a marker number and manually go back after every stop isn't nearly as good a way to work (and even the nearest marker to a temporary won't work if the part you are listening to crosses one of your permanent markers.)
post edited by droddey - 2007/07/29 21:10:06
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John
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RE: Why Does Sonar Not Get The Respect Of Other DAWS?
2007/07/29 21:08:47
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Hum... How can I relate this so users can understand? Do "we" really need to understand. "we" are already in the know sort to speak. It is a petty good seller here in the states its doing well in Europe so what is to understand? In all the mags I have seen it is well covered. That is those that deal with DAWs as such. I don't see a problem! What we have is a poster asking a question that is not of any import. Best John
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jim y
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RE: Why Does Sonar Not Get The Respect Of Other DAWS?
2007/07/30 04:57:16
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Actually, it says a lot that mpeg7 has been so long in development. I can't see a real standard appearing if the controlling bodies are going to take so long.
I only just learned that Fostex use the AES Audio Decision List (.adl) and FAT32 standard on their digital recorders. Even the humble FR2-le field recorder I now own uses an ADL and this is a basic stereo machine!
Cakewalk could also add 75fps CD frames to the snapping. You can work around using 25fps but I'd prefer the correct precision. The way it is now, Sonar is very suitable for mastering sessions - it just lacks what I would have thought was a really simple to implement snap option. It doesn't need to burn a disk, just help me make the tracks match the correct time format in the first place!
Add me to the list for a seperate Pause function IF it has a preroll.
Yes, I know it's upside down.
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mgh
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RE: Why Does Sonar Not Get The Respect Of Other DAWS?
2007/07/30 06:26:39
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In all the mags I have seen it is well covered. That is those that deal with DAWs as such. I don't see a problem!
the only uk mag doing tutorials covering sonar is SOS. the rest, computer music, music tech etc DON'T.
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trock8500
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RE: Why Does Sonar Not Get The Respect Of Other DAWS?
2007/07/30 07:32:05
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So my first DAW experience was Cubase SX 2 when on a MAC G5 just as OS X was rtolling out. one of the really neat faetures of this setup was when buttons on cubase would simply dissapear, literally, in the middle of the project. anyone else remeber this? this of course led to the cubase SX3 PAID upgrade, even though SX 2 was an unmitigated disaster for months. that sure was nice. i miss those days, and i have tried to emulate dissaperaing buttons and screen in sonar but i just can't seem to do it.
i then discovered SAW, and on a PC it was a dream come true, very stable, very CPU efficient, well supported, and once i skinned it i really enjoyed PC recording. then i found out it didn't support 24 outboard faders, just 8. and that it was probably never going to do so and that anyone who liked working that way wasn't the future. so i was at the whim of one coder. i still have SAW and enjoy it
but then i found sonar and all it can do, and all it has, and i am really enjoying it. i also have Reaper and stay up to date with it, i like the small company feel when i can. sonar sort of has that feel with this forum and good support, NO DONGLE!! etc
i think overall, at this point and with how i like to work, sonar is the complete package. no its not as CPU efficient, but it sure is nice to look at and the workflow is great and i UNDERSTAND it. some things in reaper like grouping tracks and automation are not there yet for me. in sonar EVERYTHING i want to do and how i want to do it is there
now i just need one of them quad core things and i will be happy!
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John
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RE: Why Does Sonar Not Get The Respect Of Other DAWS?
2007/07/31 00:41:21
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the only uk mag doing tutorials covering sonar is SOS. the rest, computer music, music tech etc DON'T. Computer Music was full of Sonar tutorials but that was a while ago I have not bought that mag in a very long time. Music Tech had a lot of Sonar reviews in it. Best John
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Susan G
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RE: Why Does Sonar Not Get The Respect Of Other DAWS?
2007/07/31 01:43:37
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Hi Dean- when something strikes my ear, I want to stop and have a look Exactly! I've pretty much said all I have to say re adding a true Pause in countless threads over literally years now  , but you've put it very well! I want to be able to Pause the transport and look, maybe make a note or something, but not change the Now Marker nor rewind to the Now Marker. Those who say you can use Space or Ctrl-Space to do the same thing depending on the Global "On Stop, Rewind to Now Marker" state apparently don't miss that feature, but many of us do. Thanks- -Susan
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John
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RE: Why Does Sonar Not Get The Respect Of Other DAWS?
2007/07/31 03:01:00
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Hi Susan
In the other thread (at least I think it was the other thread) I was bit to ask you because you were a adamant about not explaining what pause is to you. Here I felt no such reluctance.
I still say if you have a CS you have a pause by hitting the play button on the CS. This will act as a true pause. Hitting stop will after the use of pause rewind to the last stop point not where you paused. It works this way with the Mackie Control.
Best
John
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Susan G
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RE: Why Does Sonar Not Get The Respect Of Other DAWS?
2007/07/31 03:12:38
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Hi John- I was bit to ask you because you were a adamant about not explaining what pause is to you. I don't recall ever having been reluctant to explain what I meant by requesting a "Pause" button/feature -- sorry if I was. There is no Control Surface for SONAR out there right now that provides a true "Pause", since it's not available in SONAR yet. -Susan
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John
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RE: Why Does Sonar Not Get The Respect Of Other DAWS?
2007/07/31 03:19:46
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There is no Control Surface for SONAR out there right now that provides a true "Pause", since it's not available in SONAR yet. Something is wrong here. I just said the play button becomes a pause when you hit it while in play. This is part of the CS not Sonar so it is there. Not as a separate button but the functionality is there just the same. This was not always the case with the MC It could be a new feature that showed in Sonar 5. I don't know when it started acting this way but it works. Best John
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Susan G
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RE: Why Does Sonar Not Get The Respect Of Other DAWS?
2007/07/31 03:23:31
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Hi John- Press Space or Ctrl-Space, and the Now Marker changes, or the Transport rewinds, doesn't it? I don't want that. -Susan
post edited by Susan G - 2007/07/31 03:31:02
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John
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RE: Why Does Sonar Not Get The Respect Of Other DAWS?
2007/07/31 03:38:47
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Thats not what I am saying. On my MC if I press the play button while it is playing it will pause. The now time will stop at that point but it will not impact the normal stop function. It will return to the beginning on stop. If I then hit this pause many times it will still return to the beginning on stop. That is what I understand is a pause. That is really why I wanted to know what you all think is a pause. It is not the same as Ctr space at all. Using this method there is no reset of the now time even though the now time stops at the pause point. Best John
post edited by John - 2007/07/31 03:51:57
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Susan G
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RE: Why Does Sonar Not Get The Respect Of Other DAWS?
2007/07/31 03:48:18
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With a true Pause function, the Now Time Marker wouldn't change from its original position. Nothing would change. It would be a total stop of everything. No reset to anything. Just Pause the transport, period. I'm about to give up on trying to explain this! Can anyone do better, please? It's been discussed ad infinitum, and still it's apparently not clear to some. -Susan
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John
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RE: Why Does Sonar Not Get The Respect Of Other DAWS?
2007/07/31 03:56:50
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With a true Pause function, the Now Time Marker wouldn't change from its original position. Nothing would change. It would be a total stop of everything. No reset to anything. Just Pause the transport, period. That can't happen period. The now time is moving it will stop moving when a stop is given whether it is a pause or a real stop. Where it stops is irelevent in the case of a pause. But it has to stop. When playing there is no original position the postion is always changing. Hit pause it stops at the pause point without restting the now time. That is the only way a pause on a digital sustem can work. Best John
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Susan G
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RE: Why Does Sonar Not Get The Respect Of Other DAWS?
2007/07/31 04:05:00
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Yes, it can be done. It's been done.
-Susan
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droddey
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RE: Why Does Sonar Not Get The Respect Of Other DAWS?
2007/07/31 04:06:15
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Pause just pauses. It's no more complex than that. As with any CD or DVD player transport, pause is not the same as stop. Pause is still in play mode, but just pauses the playback. The orignal start position is not lost unless you decide to then stop after you've had your look around, as apposed to then letting it go on and keep playing.
I guess what we really need is:
1. Pause
2. Stop and put the now marker here
3. Stop and put the now marker back where I started from
With those three things, I think I could what I wanted to do in all cases.
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John
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RE: Why Does Sonar Not Get The Respect Of Other DAWS?
2007/07/31 04:14:15
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Ok in you idea of pause where will the now time marker be? It has to be somewhere. If it is a pause the now time marker position is of no importance unless you want to do something at the point you paused at. The point is with the pause I am talking about there is no reset at all. With the spacebar or Ctrl+spacebar there is. Best John P.S. I remember with my Wollensack tape recorder way back when. It had a pause that was a lever that was held with a finger. It was a brake on the transport. Letting go would unpause it. Needless to say holding that thing was not a fun thing to hold. I hope that this is not what you all want. P.P.S. BTW Keep in mind here that I am in no way arguing against a pause on the transport of Sonar.or anywhere else for that matter. Just that I have a work around until one is available. P.P.P.S. Just did a check on this I was wrong the play button pause will reset the now time. It is the same as Ctrl+ spacebar. But not all is lost there is a button on the MC that will rewind to the start. This button is dedicated to this.
post edited by John - 2007/07/31 04:49:41
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John T
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RE: Why Does Sonar Not Get The Respect Of Other DAWS?
2007/07/31 04:50:48
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ORIGINAL: Susan G
With a true Pause function, the Now Time Marker wouldn't change from its original position. Nothing would change. It would be a total stop of everything. No reset to anything. Just Pause the transport, period.
I'm about to give up on trying to explain this! Can anyone do better, please? It's been discussed ad infinitum, and still it's apparently not clear to some.
-Susan
Heh. I don't get why people don't get it. So no, I don't think I can do better. I'm going to give it one last go: STOP is what Sonar does now. It's got two options, re-wind to origin point and STOP, or STOP at current position (and update the "rewind to" point). Pause would, like, you know, pause. The "rewind to" point would not change. There would be no re-wind. You'd be able to unpause and carry on from where you left off. But you'd also be able to stop and go back to your origin point. The current implementation is that you can only stop at the current position of you update the "rewind to" point. And that's a pain in the azz.
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skullsession
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RE: Why Does Sonar Not Get The Respect Of Other DAWS?
2007/07/31 08:24:14
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Well...I just play, mix, edit everything on the fly. And I do it right the first time.....so I have no need to pause and go back. 
HOOK: Skullsessions.com / Darwins God Album "Without a doubt I would have far greater listening and aural skills than most of the forum members here. Not all but many I am sure....I have done more listening than most people." - Jeff Evans on how awesome Jeff Evans is.
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