Why I'm having trouble deciding on a VS700C .. some thoughts ...

PROS  
- Excellent Sonar integration
Yes, best I have experienced.
- By all reports, excellent [ quiet and smooth and oily-responsive ]  faders
Yes again... very slick actually.
- Excellent build quality
Yes once more.

CONS
  - Audio monitoring is useless unless I have a VS700R - which I don't and will never have - take away the VS700R and you are paying for a lot of never to be used hardware componentry
If you are buying one of these, you'll use your existing monitoring setup. Hasn't caused me any problems yet and there are only a few knob s you don't get to use... no biggy and I am normally super melancholy about this sort of thing.
- Headphones  [ naturally ]  don't work in stand-alone-Controller
 Correct again but already have those options in current outboard.
- Price
Yes, this is an ouch... still.
- As a Controller only, its too  Sonar-Cakewalk-focussed
This is the very reason I bought it, but your point has validity if wider appeal was being marketed to.
- Very slow utility development - other than base-drivers, where is all the promised "built-in-and-soon-to-be-unleashed"  utility  ?  simple example - 16 buttons that even after a year from release, cannot be  ctrl / alt / shift  expanded to  32 or 48 presets
Will be nice to have some functionality available definitely and as a user, I will be disappointed if it doesn't happen. This surface just begs to give you more.
-Size - it does not need to be this big- a quick re-design  and  " re-ergonomization " of the unit would easily shave  %25 off  its 29" length
Can't comment until I lift the lid off however it is large BUT very solid. The front interface control stuff they could seriously have ditched as it makes it more 'hobbyist like' IMO... plus would have saved a couple of dollars. My only eral gripe is how high it sits... quite tall and you are adjusting arm height when you reach for the mouse/kb.
 
DONT CARE EITHER WAY
  - T-Bar
  One thing that I was looking forward to and now I have it, use it sparingly but it is handy with plug ins.
OVERALL FEELINGS
  - Despite all the above,  and from talking to a lot of colleagues and friends in the retail music and studio industry, they all have the feeling that the unit is just not "sticking"  or  "penetrating"  the market as perhaps it should have - almost to a person they will say it feels  " very shaky "   -  that is, they are far from certain that it will be a "long-term-produced-updated-and-supported"  product
  No offense but this means nothing. It's just the normal chatter about every product out there... if they were wanting a dedicated Sonar surface, they would have bought one.. or be preparing to rob a bank to buy one. People I know use mostly PT and their opinions will have zero bearing also.

- Without exception, they all feel that  Roland / Cakewalk made a BIG mistake by not having a "stand-lone-non-proprietary"  model - ie:  keep the  VS700C /  VS700R  combo - do not make the current VS700C available as a separate unit - and instead release a " VS500C "  [ a VS700C without all the  VS700R audio connectivity built-in ]  which not only would have attracted  existing  Sonar  users  but would have given the market an alternative to the MCU Pro and thereby attracted users of Cubase, Logic, DP, P/Tools  etc....... - I cant help but agree that this has been a major oversight.
 
- its a lot like politics - to win any election, a party must do two things - it needs to "lock in its base"  AND  " get the independent undecided swinging voters " -  the  VS700C&R certainly has not done the first, and  almost-equally-certainly, is not doing the later ...
This is interesting in that I have mooted several times jumping to PT purely because it is the norm over here and why use a minority package. This surface has now locked me to Sonar to be quite honest. It is dedicated to Sonar and my ability with this software is increasing by each hour spent with it. So while I see their point, I am an example of why the dedicated nature of the 700 can work. It does lock in it's base and should help the undecided like me, who were regularly tempted by the incredible surface options already out there for PT etc.

- I and my colleagues don't know anyone who has / uses one - apart from the  very few owners / users  here on this forum [ would there even be  100  owners / users  here - I highly doubt it ]  it just has not had the  " damn, I've gotta have this "  vibe about it - this worries  me /them a lot - Roland / Cakewalk simply cannot be selling [ not just shipping but actual retailer selling ]   many of these units - and unless this changes very soon, it can only lead to one thing
  Who can tell... we don't know the actual sales figures but the recent price reduction can only help. It is now closer to what should have been the initial RRP IMO and it will hopefully become competitive price wise sooner rather than later.

CONCLUSION
  Despite my  [ hopefully-objective-and sincerely-good-willed-critical-comments ]  I am still having trouble dismissing it as  my  "ultimate-long-term" DAW controller.
I don't think there is an ultimate in DAW land but I have to say that finally I have a surface that works well and shows a lot of promise to boot. Let's see how the coming support is as that will be a good indicator of the future of this line. As a relevant aside, I am now keen to get the 700R to further open up options but at $2k+ to bring one into this country, it have to wait a while. There's that price issue again.... stopping another sale. It just doesn't match up against good gear like the MOTU etc already out there.

One thing worth noting about all this, is that it is EXTREMELY difficult to buy the 700 products second hand. Beyond hard which tells you something I believe, even if only 12 months or so old.

Cheers... good post.

This is interesting.. didn't realize it had a Mackie mode... the generic option too is worth noting... very valid point.

All hail Scott the Guru I say.

Mully


This is interesting.. didn't realize it had a Mackie mode... the generic option too is worth noting... very valid point.

Hey Mully,

At the end of the eBook, there's a short section where I talk about using the VS-700C with Sony Vegas.

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/  - http://www.musictechshop.com/ - http://www.cooltechshop.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free SoundTech Vocal Trainer Package, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

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It's probably because Sound Forge is mainly an audio editor and not a DAW. But yeah, it would be nice to have the feature.

You could probably configure the MIDI Triggers feature to work for partial control...

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/  - http://www.musictechshop.com/ - http://www.cooltechshop.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free SoundTech Vocal Trainer Package, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free i2i Stream Wireless Music Pack, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/

The gripes are all part the process of what the buyer wants, what the workability of a design is, and the money to make it. Like as not if they'd built a another design someone would want something else on it before putting out the cash. Every buyer is saying, why didn't you make this for me? Well, the middle of the road has to be somewhere.
There's a million things to learn in the world of todays complex instruments and unless you can design one yourself and make it happen, you're going to have to learn what's there. Peace.

I think when Roland/Cakewalk decided to make the VS 700 system they thought about replacing the VS 2480 with something updated and futuristic . They wanted all the previous features of the 2480 included in the VS 700 system as a smooth transition to the VS 700. Roland had a humongous fan base of buyers who bought the 2480. It was huge success and that was the market they were aiming for. Those are the people that have shelled out $4,000 dollars for a system and would shell out another $4,000 for this system if they feel it's a significant upgrade that's easy to use and that's why the console and interface are made for each other and not really meant to be sold as a general purpose controller. Now I'm sure they thought they would also attract buyers of other system users that discover the VS 700 is a wonderful system that integrates perfectly with the Sonar program. There are people that are not completely satisfied with Pro Tools/Nuendo, Daws etc. There are people that are looking for that more perfect integrated system like me before making the switch to computer systems. If it wasn't for this perfect integration between both units I myself wouldn't be into this computer recording on this level. I thought about buying a $600.00 DAW control unit for a Nuendo or Samplitude program but after seeing this I'll shell out $3700 happily when I could afford it. If i couldn't, I would sell other equipment until I could afford it.  because I know what it's worth in terms of future return dollar and the piece of mind that comes with the ease and functionality of this particular system versus the rest of them. Without this system I would be lost in computerville trying to do serious recording on a computer having come from the Roland hardware DAW all my life.  This system may not be perfect but it's the best overall integrated system for a computer DAW program I think.  

I want one it just alot of money for someone who already has a good working system

And there in lies the challenge. I only looked online again today and this system is under $4kUS in US. In Australia it is EIGHT THOUSAND dollars AU. How ridiculous can it get?

Must admit that I would buy the 700R in a heartbeat but it will be around $3k IF I get it from US.... this is crazy when you consider that it will be replacing a perfectly good MOTU 8Pre.

... a little frustrating at times? Yes... and I also am not fussed about the Fantom bizzo. They are definitely missing the mark if that is adding cost to this interface.

Hiya Scott... yep sure could methinks. For me it's about getting the 700R to replace the MOTU just to get the same quality of pres plus the advantage of further integration... unfortunately the $2500AU it would cost to bring one in from the US prevents me from buying one. In Oz they will be around the $4kAU mark locally which is beyond silly alas... assuming anyone even has stock.

The 8Pre can be bought here for under $1kAU with a street price about $850AU which would be around to about $800US. You can see the massive imbalance. Makes zero sense to me and zero cents to Roland.

Cheers!

Hey Craig,

Very cool... that's what I was thinking of... if the MOTU provided a stand-alone mode. Nice to know that's possible.

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/  - http://www.musictechshop.com/ - http://www.cooltechshop.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free SoundTech Vocal Trainer Package, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free i2i Stream Wireless Music Pack, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/

Just wondering, but would it be possible to use a Tascam FW-1884 to expand the inputs of the VS-700R? I'm not looking to use the 1884 as a control surface, just for more inputs.

I think you can just depends on the drivers  I think its Asio which you have to use, Not 100% sure .

I haven't looked at the 1884 for a while. It's a Mixer or an interface? FW is obviously Fire Wire, ASIO? What outputs does it give you?

Jeff
>>When I was running the V Studio I had a 24 channel Tascam analog desk and a Yamaha 01V Digital mixer all connected at once to the VS700R. The VS700R is excellent for connecting external devices to. <<

You aren't using the V Studio now?

WSS

According to Jeff's website I cannot fine any mention of Sonar/Roland being used... but Logic audio is though. Maybe his website hasn't been updated with his latest tools.

Crg


I haven't looked at the 1884 for a while. It's a Mixer or an interface? FW is obviously Fire Wire, ASIO? What outputs does it give you?

 
Hey Craig Heres the info on the fw.

24-bit/96kHz A/D and D/A converters; full 96kHz operation on all analog I/O channels with compatible DAW software

Eight channels of ADAT lightpipe, stereo S/PDIF inputs and outputs.  
It is a Mixer/ Interface and firewire
  It has to be about 10 years old now.. Tascam did something right.
 

Hi Heinz,

True... you can't use the VST plug-in part of the Fantom in Windows 64-bit, but you can still use it as a hardware synth. Check out this article here on the Cakewalk site...
http://www.cakewalk.com/s...der.aspx?ID=2007012927

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/  - http://www.musictechshop.com/ - http://www.cooltechshop.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free SoundTech Vocal Trainer Package, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free i2i Stream Wireless Music Pack, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/