azslow3
Max Output Level: -42.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3297
- Joined: 2012/06/22 19:27:51
- Location: Germany
- Status: offline
Re: Why are hardware dongles so bad?
2017/12/30 23:06:50
(permalink)
JohanSebatianGremlin
azslow3
So now I have switched to the (only) DAW which has no online/hardware authorization. We should at least try to protect our freedom.
Protect your freedom? Oh puh-leeze. I don't recall seeing where anyone invented a USB dongle that is able to hold a gun to your head.
Please do not worry, my freedom is protected now. I have switched to "no authorization" DAW. But "the measure of the freedom is the length of the chain" (one famous Russian satiric). Even in case you have no feeling your are chained...
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
|
mumpcake
Max Output Level: -59 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1609
- Joined: 2004/06/16 16:27:42
- Status: offline
Re: Why are hardware dongles so bad?
2017/12/31 19:19:18
(permalink)
Jeff Evans
I have a friend who runs a pro studio. Once some time ago his iLok went faulty at the same time as the iLok server went down. It took him well over a week to even be able to use his software. He lost clients, reputation and thousands of dollars.
If I remember right, during that time people that were trying to update authorizations for one product had all of their authorizations wiped at the same time. Search for iLokalypse on KVR and you will find all sorts of horror stories like that.
|
JohanSebatianGremlin
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 402
- Joined: 2016/03/17 22:27:15
- Status: offline
Re: Why are hardware dongles so bad?
2017/12/31 20:43:23
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby ooblecaboodle 2018/01/03 16:58:03
azslow3
Please do not worry, my freedom is protected now. I have switched to "no authorization" DAW.
It always amazes me the new creative definitions of the word freedom people manage to come up with. Funny but I don't recall reading anything about being guaranteed the right to break the law when it comes to software license agreements in the Constitution. Perhaps you can point me to correct paragraph?
If gear was the determining factor, we would all have a shelf full of Grammies and a pocket full of change. -microapp i7, 32gb RAM, Win10 64bit, RME UFX
|
azslow3
Max Output Level: -42.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3297
- Joined: 2012/06/22 19:27:51
- Location: Germany
- Status: offline
Re: Why are hardware dongles so bad?
2018/01/01 17:10:03
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Voda La Void 2018/01/02 15:32:37
JohanSebatianGremlin
azslow3
Please do not worry, my freedom is protected now. I have switched to "no authorization" DAW.
It always amazes me the new creative definitions of the word freedom people manage to come up with. Funny but I don't recall reading anything about being guaranteed the right to break the law when it comes to software license agreements in the Constitution. Perhaps you can point me to correct paragraph?
This forum rules forbid political discussions. So I use the word "freedom" in terms of the measure for customers freedom how they can use the software and "degree of freedom" (mathematical domain). Nothing "creative" from my side. License agreement is only one part. If the agreement is to use particular software by particular person on one computer per time, that is not a problem. But: a) producers of "dongle ware" from the beginning on do not trust you follow the rule, so they extra protect themselves. Forcing you to pay for that protection, in terms of extra money and inconvenience b) you are ready to pay for the possibility to use the software. But they add a component which can prevent you can do so, explicitly without (!) any guarantee it will not break or malfunction c) some producers bind you even more. You possibility to use what you have paid for is directly bound to unrelated (in respect to the product functionality) hardware device. If that device is broken/stolen/malfunction, the agreement is explicitly void. I pay a lot of money and after that I do not own anything, I pay for a Possibility to use something, already under quite restricted conditions. And that Possibility is even further restricted by "a dongle", without any benefits for me. So I see that as unnecessary limitation of (degree of) my freedom.
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
|
JohanSebatianGremlin
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 402
- Joined: 2016/03/17 22:27:15
- Status: offline
Re: Why are hardware dongles so bad?
2018/01/02 13:15:59
(permalink)
azslow3
This forum rules forbid political discussions. So I use the word "freedom" in terms of the measure for customers freedom how they can use the software and "degree of freedom" (mathematical domain). Nothing "creative" from my side.
License agreement is only one part. If the agreement is to use particular software by particular person on one computer per time, that is not a problem. But:
a) producers of "dongle ware" from the beginning on do not trust you follow the rule, so they extra protect themselves. Forcing you to pay for that protection, in terms of extra money and inconvenience
b) you are ready to pay for the possibility to use the software. But they add a component which can prevent you can do so, explicitly without (!) any guarantee it will not break or malfunction
c) some producers bind you even more. You possibility to use what you have paid for is directly bound to unrelated (in respect to the product functionality) hardware device. If that device is broken/stolen/malfunction, the agreement is explicitly void.
I pay a lot of money and after that I do not own anything, I pay for a Possibility to use something, already under quite restricted conditions. And that Possibility is even further restricted by "a dongle", without any benefits for me. So I see that as unnecessary limitation of (degree of) my freedom.
It always amazes me the new creative definitions of the word freedom people manage to come up with. Funny but I don't recall reading anything about being guaranteed the right to break the law when it comes to software license agreements in the Constitution. Perhaps you can point me to correct paragraph? Reposting the same response because it still applies. You can 'see it' anyway you please. But it doesn't change that fact that you're citing an infringement on your freedom when no such infringement is taking place. At least under any reasonable definition of the word freedom. You simply don't like dongles? Fine. Say you don't like them, cite the reasons you've stated above as support for your opinion and move on. But none of what you've stated gets anywhere near the realm of impinging on your freedom. They are 'free' to choose whatever licensing scheme they want. You are 'free' to take your dollars elsewhere if you disagree with their choices. That is exactly how freedom is supposed to work. It is also the only time the word freedom actually applies in the discussion.
If gear was the determining factor, we would all have a shelf full of Grammies and a pocket full of change. -microapp i7, 32gb RAM, Win10 64bit, RME UFX
|
TheSteven
Max Output Level: -55 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2037
- Joined: 2005/03/05 01:17:06
- Location: Southern California
- Status: offline
Re: Why are hardware dongles so bad?
2018/01/02 14:50:57
(permalink)
I use to hate dongles, now I think iLok is a blessing.
The gods of fate have decided that for the 3rd time within a 1year & a half that I need to completely rebuild my Windows installation (graphic chip burned out on MB, lemon PC, Window 7 update issue created by Microsoft).
When you have a lot of plugins reauthorizing everything using the various techniques & schemes, including authorization limits is a major time consuming pain in the rear.
In general, my iLok plugins are the easiest to deal with and cause me the least grief.
"Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils" Loius-Hector Berlioz  www.AgitatedState.com MenuMagic - plug-in management powertools! My Tunes
|
Voda La Void
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
- Total Posts : 723
- Joined: 2011/02/12 09:15:07
- Location: Broken Arrow, OK
- Status: offline
Re: Why are hardware dongles so bad?
2018/01/02 15:50:42
(permalink)
azslow3
I pay a lot of money and after that I do not own anything, I pay for a Possibility to use something, already under quite restricted conditions. And that Possibility is even further restricted by "a dongle", without any benefits for me. So I see that as unnecessary limitation of (degree of) my freedom.
Right on. People who read opinions through the lens of their agenda aren't reading what you wrote. Your freedom point here is entirely appropriate and valid. You're not talking about freedom of choice or any sort of legal structure, rather you're talking about choosing products and services that bring you the most freedom of use. Simple.
Voda La Void...experiments in disturbing frequencies...
|
Joe_A
Max Output Level: -81 dBFS
- Total Posts : 458
- Joined: 2008/07/06 23:16:14
- Status: offline
Re: Why are hardware dongles so bad?
2018/01/02 16:15:22
(permalink)
Can I use two dongles and run laptop and desktop Cubase same time? (New Cubase owner)
jambrose@cfl.rr.com Sonar Plat. Lifetime. Started in Sonar 4, each through 8.5.3PE. Scarlett 18i202nd gen., Edirol FA-101, M-Audio Firewire 410, AMD Phenom II 1045T six core processor, 8GB DDR3, AMD Radeon HD 6450, dual displays, 1.5 TB SATA HD, USB 2, Firewire 1394A, 1394B, 18/22 mixer, EV Q-66, Yamaha HS50M monitors, few guitars, Fender Cybertwin SE, Fender Cyber foot controller, Boss RC20-XL, misc pedals, etc. Win Home Prem 64 bit.
|
JohanSebatianGremlin
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 402
- Joined: 2016/03/17 22:27:15
- Status: offline
Re: Why are hardware dongles so bad?
2018/01/02 16:29:19
(permalink)
Voda La Void
Right on. People who read opinions through the lens of their agenda aren't reading what you wrote. Your freedom point here is entirely appropriate and valid. You're not talking about freedom of choice or any sort of legal structure, rather you're talking about choosing products and services that bring you the most freedom of use. Simple.
Agree to disagree. Go back and read the first post where it came up. Then explain who exactly is threatening any 'freedom of choice' to the point that the phrase 'my freedom is protected now' makes sense in the context of your interpretation.
If gear was the determining factor, we would all have a shelf full of Grammies and a pocket full of change. -microapp i7, 32gb RAM, Win10 64bit, RME UFX
|
JohanSebatianGremlin
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 402
- Joined: 2016/03/17 22:27:15
- Status: offline
Re: Why are hardware dongles so bad?
2018/01/02 16:33:51
(permalink)
Joe_A
Can I use two dongles and run laptop and desktop Cubase same time? (New Cubase owner)
Only if you own two licenses.
If gear was the determining factor, we would all have a shelf full of Grammies and a pocket full of change. -microapp i7, 32gb RAM, Win10 64bit, RME UFX
|
Joe_A
Max Output Level: -81 dBFS
- Total Posts : 458
- Joined: 2008/07/06 23:16:14
- Status: offline
Re: Why are hardware dongles so bad?
2018/01/02 17:18:31
(permalink)
jambrose@cfl.rr.com Sonar Plat. Lifetime. Started in Sonar 4, each through 8.5.3PE. Scarlett 18i202nd gen., Edirol FA-101, M-Audio Firewire 410, AMD Phenom II 1045T six core processor, 8GB DDR3, AMD Radeon HD 6450, dual displays, 1.5 TB SATA HD, USB 2, Firewire 1394A, 1394B, 18/22 mixer, EV Q-66, Yamaha HS50M monitors, few guitars, Fender Cybertwin SE, Fender Cyber foot controller, Boss RC20-XL, misc pedals, etc. Win Home Prem 64 bit.
|
Joe_A
Max Output Level: -81 dBFS
- Total Posts : 458
- Joined: 2008/07/06 23:16:14
- Status: offline
Re: Why are hardware dongles so bad?
2018/01/02 17:21:02
(permalink)
I run tracks from desktop to fa101 into Focusrite 18i20 2nd gen, add music live into laptop USB reg conn into Focusrite, record with Focusrite. Don't want to move existing music from desktop...a chore, or use external drive, slower. Just the way I'm already set up. **To clarify, all my audio out from desktop goes through the fa101 whether media player, audio creator, or winamp for tracks, etc. 😊 not to run two simultaneous Cubase (desktop is Windows 7, laptop is Windows 10.....). It doesn't run SPLAT either. Two dongles was just a 10 second question..
post edited by Joe_A - 2018/01/02 20:53:21
jambrose@cfl.rr.com Sonar Plat. Lifetime. Started in Sonar 4, each through 8.5.3PE. Scarlett 18i202nd gen., Edirol FA-101, M-Audio Firewire 410, AMD Phenom II 1045T six core processor, 8GB DDR3, AMD Radeon HD 6450, dual displays, 1.5 TB SATA HD, USB 2, Firewire 1394A, 1394B, 18/22 mixer, EV Q-66, Yamaha HS50M monitors, few guitars, Fender Cybertwin SE, Fender Cyber foot controller, Boss RC20-XL, misc pedals, etc. Win Home Prem 64 bit.
|
JohanSebatianGremlin
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 402
- Joined: 2016/03/17 22:27:15
- Status: offline
Re: Why are hardware dongles so bad?
2018/01/02 18:25:47
(permalink)
Joe_A
I run tracks from desktop to fa101 into Focusrite 18i20 2nd gen, add music live into laptop USB reg conn into Focusrite, record with Focusrite.
Don't want to move existing music from desktop...a chore, or use external drive, slower.
Just the way I'm already set up.
If you want to run the software simultaneously on two different computers, you will need two licenses. Quite a few audio software vendors allow installation of their software on more than one computer these days. But just about all of them specify that you can only use one installation at any given time and count on the honor system to keep users compliant. Steinberg doesn't want to count on the honor system so they use a dongle to insure users don't cheat. Based on what you've described, your choices are buy two licenses, use a different DAW or find a way to work that doesn't require using two computers to do the job on one.
If gear was the determining factor, we would all have a shelf full of Grammies and a pocket full of change. -microapp i7, 32gb RAM, Win10 64bit, RME UFX
|
azslow3
Max Output Level: -42.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3297
- Joined: 2012/06/22 19:27:51
- Location: Germany
- Status: offline
Re: Why are hardware dongles so bad?
2018/01/02 19:59:03
(permalink)
Voda La Void
azslow3
I pay a lot of money and after that I do not own anything, I pay for a Possibility to use something, already under quite restricted conditions. And that Possibility is even further restricted by "a dongle", without any benefits for me. So I see that as unnecessary limitation of (degree of) my freedom.
Right on. People who read opinions through the lens of their agenda aren't reading what you wrote. Your freedom point here is entirely appropriate and valid. You're not talking about freedom of choice or any sort of legal structure, rather you're talking about choosing products and services that bring you the most freedom of use. Simple.
Thank! Exactly what I mean. JohanSebatianGremlin
Voda La Void
Right on. People who read opinions through the lens of their agenda aren't reading what you wrote. Your freedom point here is entirely appropriate and valid. You're not talking about freedom of choice or any sort of legal structure, rather you're talking about choosing products and services that bring you the most freedom of use. Simple.
Agree to disagree. Go back and read the first post where it came up. Then explain who exactly is threatening any 'freedom of choice' to the point that the phrase 'my freedom is protected now' makes sense in the context of your interpretation.
"My freedom is protected now". The freedom to use the DAW independent from any online service or extra hardware peaces. Payed and on one computer at any particular time. As it was with Sonar before and including X3. And so "the most freedom of use" in range of EULA.
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
|
JohanSebatianGremlin
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 402
- Joined: 2016/03/17 22:27:15
- Status: offline
Re: Why are hardware dongles so bad?
2018/01/02 20:04:58
(permalink)
You go soldier. You still haven't explained how this freedom you describe was ever in jeopardy of not being an option for you but whatever. Onward Soldier. Keep fighting the good fight. And keep protecting freedom like you do for all of us. 
If gear was the determining factor, we would all have a shelf full of Grammies and a pocket full of change. -microapp i7, 32gb RAM, Win10 64bit, RME UFX
|
azslow3
Max Output Level: -42.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3297
- Joined: 2012/06/22 19:27:51
- Location: Germany
- Status: offline
Re: Why are hardware dongles so bad?
2018/01/02 20:34:04
(permalink)
JohanSebatianGremlin
You go soldier. You still haven't explained how this freedom you describe was ever in jeopardy of not being an option for you but whatever. Onward Soldier. Keep fighting the good fight. And keep protecting freedom like you do for all of us.
I am not fighting for anything. From the replies, that is you who "defend" absolutely useless for music hardware sticks. But if you want to know from where my opinion comes: I am not a "pro" in music. Sonar Platinum has reverted itself into demo once even for me. Not at critical time, but that was rather disturbing (you can find my angry post about the issue...). As a computer "pro" I never use a single peace of hardware/software for anything critical as long as that is theoretically possible. In practice for any "stage like" job that means at least 2 computers. 2x(or more) online authorizations allows one license for both systems, primary and "hot spare". And these systems are completely independent. With one dongle even with 2 computers there is still one point of failure. So in case I will start to use any "dongle ware" for real job, I will need to buy 2 licenses and 2 sticks. For hardware (raids, disks, servers, routers, etc...) I do this. But for hardware there is a good reason for that (including the fancy fact that 24h replacement guarantee cost close to the unit price...). But for a software? A hardware copy of "bits"? Here I see no reason at all.
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
|
Voda La Void
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
- Total Posts : 723
- Joined: 2011/02/12 09:15:07
- Location: Broken Arrow, OK
- Status: offline
Re: Why are hardware dongles so bad?
2018/01/02 20:38:35
(permalink)
JohanSebatianGremlin
Voda La Void
Right on. People who read opinions through the lens of their agenda aren't reading what you wrote. Your freedom point here is entirely appropriate and valid. You're not talking about freedom of choice or any sort of legal structure, rather you're talking about choosing products and services that bring you the most freedom of use. Simple.
Agree to disagree. Go back and read the first post where it came up. Then explain who exactly is threatening any 'freedom of choice' to the point that the phrase 'my freedom is protected now' makes sense in the context of your interpretation.
I did read the first post where it came up. And the next one, and the next one. From the first post he clearly was talking about a preference for a software product with much better freedom of use, less restrictions in using it. But I'm just a dumb okie. I try to understand what people mean, rather than obsess over word choice or how they put sentences together. Especially when they're from another country and English is not their native language.
Voda La Void...experiments in disturbing frequencies...
|
azslow3
Max Output Level: -42.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3297
- Joined: 2012/06/22 19:27:51
- Location: Germany
- Status: offline
Re: Why are hardware dongles so bad?
2018/01/02 20:45:18
(permalink)
Voda La Void
Especially when they're from another country and English is not their native language.
I guess toothache which I have during last days has also contributed into my attitude.  I think I have to cool down (myself and my teeth)
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
|
anydmusic
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 251
- Joined: 2015/07/17 08:30:23
- Status: offline
Re: Why are hardware dongles so bad?
2018/01/02 21:25:22
(permalink)
Graham Windows 10 64 bit - Intel i7-4790, 16GB, 2 x 256GB SSD Cubase 9.5 Sonar Platinum (Rapture Pro, Z3TA 2, CA2A, plus some other bits) Delta 24/96, UAD 1, UA25 EX, 2 x MidiSport, IKMultiMedia - (SampleTank 3, Miroslav 2, Syntronik, TRacks 5, Modo Bass), Band In A Box, Sound Quest, VS Pro, Kinetic, Acid, Sound Forge, Jammer Waves MaxxVolume, IR 1, Aphex Enhancer, Abbey Plates Korg Legacy, VStation, Bass Station
|
JohanSebatianGremlin
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 402
- Joined: 2016/03/17 22:27:15
- Status: offline
Re: Why are hardware dongles so bad?
2018/01/02 21:50:32
(permalink)
azslow3
I am not fighting for anything. From the replies, that is you who "defend" absolutely useless for music hardware sticks.
Defending them? I've defended nothing. I think I've been pretty clear that my only issue has been your claim that by choosing a different vendor, you have somehow protected your freedom. To clarify, I'm now using Cubase because it seemed it was the next best solution for my needs. If I could have found a solution that was as well suited in other respects and used a different licensing scheme, I may have gone that way. But I could find no other such solution so Cubase it is. If that's me defending the use well, its a pretty weak defense if you ask me. Probably a much better defense would be this. You can claim that their choice to use hardware in their licensing is absolutely useless all you want. But the fact remains that Sonar gave up due to lack of sales and Cubase is still a viable product. We can speculate about how much piracy played a role all we want and we'd still only be speculating, but the fact remains, one was easier to pirate than the other and that one is no longer a product.
If gear was the determining factor, we would all have a shelf full of Grammies and a pocket full of change. -microapp i7, 32gb RAM, Win10 64bit, RME UFX
|
azslow3
Max Output Level: -42.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3297
- Joined: 2012/06/22 19:27:51
- Location: Germany
- Status: offline
Re: Why are hardware dongles so bad?
2018/01/02 21:55:43
(permalink)
anydmusic
Steinberg do offer a solution to the single point of failure on the USB ELicenser but it requires you owning a second USB ELicenser. One license, one active USB and one spare.
https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-us/articles/206532304
Hmm...
In case of emergency, each USB-eLicenser registered on MySteinberg permits you to submit one online request for a Steinberg Zero Downtime license
The text can be interpreted several ways, but in the video, at 0:40 there are only 2 choices why you are asking for the code: "Broken eLicenser" or "Lost eLicenser". And so it looks like the solution is what to do AFTER you have a problem, to have a possibility to (more or less) quick continue to work (go online, fill the form, receive email, put the code on the dongle... "Zero" Downtime?). I mean there is no statement "you can put spare license on the second dongle to switch immediately when the first one is broken". Do I miss something?
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
|
anydmusic
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 251
- Joined: 2015/07/17 08:30:23
- Status: offline
Re: Why are hardware dongles so bad?
2018/01/02 22:06:28
(permalink)
It says that they give you a license that lasts for 25 hours to use while you organise a permanent replacement from support.
Not sure how it works and how they actually issue the permanent licence within 25 hours at the weekend or public holidays.
But they have clearly given some thought to the issue even if the solution is not perfect.
Graham Windows 10 64 bit - Intel i7-4790, 16GB, 2 x 256GB SSD Cubase 9.5 Sonar Platinum (Rapture Pro, Z3TA 2, CA2A, plus some other bits) Delta 24/96, UAD 1, UA25 EX, 2 x MidiSport, IKMultiMedia - (SampleTank 3, Miroslav 2, Syntronik, TRacks 5, Modo Bass), Band In A Box, Sound Quest, VS Pro, Kinetic, Acid, Sound Forge, Jammer Waves MaxxVolume, IR 1, Aphex Enhancer, Abbey Plates Korg Legacy, VStation, Bass Station
|
azslow3
Max Output Level: -42.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3297
- Joined: 2012/06/22 19:27:51
- Location: Germany
- Status: offline
Re: Why are hardware dongles so bad?
2018/01/02 22:10:32
(permalink)
JohanSebatianGremlin
Probably a much better defense would be this. You can claim that their choice to use hardware in their licensing is absolutely useless all you want. But the fact remains that Sonar gave up due to lack of sales and Cubase is still a viable product. We can speculate about how much piracy played a role all we want and we'd still only be speculating, but the fact remains, one was easier to pirate than the other and that one is no longer a product.
Cakewalk had online authorization since 2015. The discussion what is harder to pirate, online authorization of CW or dongle from Steinberg, will violate the rules of this forum. So please do not use "illegal fact" 
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
|
JohanSebatianGremlin
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 402
- Joined: 2016/03/17 22:27:15
- Status: offline
Re: Why are hardware dongles so bad?
2018/01/02 22:19:25
(permalink)
azslow3
The discussion what is harder to pirate, online authorization of CW or dongle from Steinberg, will violate the rules of this forum. So please do not use "illegal fact"
What?
If gear was the determining factor, we would all have a shelf full of Grammies and a pocket full of change. -microapp i7, 32gb RAM, Win10 64bit, RME UFX
|
azslow3
Max Output Level: -42.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3297
- Joined: 2012/06/22 19:27:51
- Location: Germany
- Status: offline
Re: Why are hardware dongles so bad?
2018/01/02 22:35:33
(permalink)
JohanSebatianGremlin
azslow3
The discussion what is harder to pirate, online authorization of CW or dongle from Steinberg, will violate the rules of this forum. So please do not use "illegal fact"
What?
JohanSebatianGremlin
but the fact remains, one was easier to pirate than the other.
Comparison of difficulty to hack protections, claiming one is easier to do 
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
|
djwayne
Max Output Level: -55 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2021
- Joined: 2005/08/07 17:27:09
- Location: USA
- Status: offline
Re: Why are hardware dongles so bad?
2018/01/02 22:39:43
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby ooblecaboodle 2018/01/03 13:10:45
The East West sound sample programs require an iLok. I bought Goliath this last week and registered it with the ilok key I already have. The whole process took me about 3 minutes, and has been working fine ever since. It was actually pretty easy. It's one of those things that once you figure it out, it's gravy.
|
JohanSebatianGremlin
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 402
- Joined: 2016/03/17 22:27:15
- Status: offline
Re: Why are hardware dongles so bad?
2018/01/03 12:51:17
(permalink)
azslow3
Comparison of difficulty to hack protections, claiming one is easier to do
No, that part was simple enough to follow. I was more questioning the 'illegal facts' thing. Is that another one of those things where you're using your own personal definition of it?
If gear was the determining factor, we would all have a shelf full of Grammies and a pocket full of change. -microapp i7, 32gb RAM, Win10 64bit, RME UFX
|
ooblecaboodle
Max Output Level: -54 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2102
- Joined: 2004/05/01 21:52:56
- Location: North Wales
- Status: offline
Re: Why are hardware dongles so bad?
2018/01/03 13:10:24
(permalink)
bdickens
Why are hardware dongles (ilok, etc.) so bad?
I keep seeing people complain about them and / or swear they will never use any software that requires them.
I know, it comes up a lot. I for one, actually really like the iLok. I've (touch wood) never had a problem with it in over a decade, and I like that I can install plugins and software on multiple machines that I switch back and forth between, whether those machines are online or not. What grinds my gears is that every tom dick and harry seems to be trying to make their own version, so now I need a usb port for an iLok, a Waves USB Key, a Merging dongle, and so on and so forth. Another thing I wish the iLok would have done from it's inception, is to be able to install your plugins to the ilok, to make it truly portable. Say I go to work in a studio with protools, it would be really neat if I plugged in my iLok, opened protools, and I could use all the protools plugins on my dongle without having to install them on the studio's machine. Go to another studio running, say, reaper, stick in the iLok, open Reaper, and all my VST plugins are available without having to install.
|
Glyn Barnes
Max Output Level: -0.3 dBFS
- Total Posts : 7564
- Joined: 2009/06/10 05:12:31
- Location: A Stone's Throw from the Line
- Status: offline
Re: Why are hardware dongles so bad?
2018/01/03 13:29:20
(permalink)
I will add another perspective, Before I retired I was responsible for managing various technical software licences. We had around 60 dongles for one particular piece of software distributed over may countries. Licences got moved around the world as required. While this meant physical shipping they still caused far less issues than other means of licencing.
Over around ten year I think we lost (stolen?) two which were gone for ever and broke one which was replaced.
People using multiple dongles on a laptop (some times as many as four) often used a small hub mounted a small piece of wood or similar which kept it all together.
I have had an eLicencer for several years and its not given me any issues. I am considering getting an iLok as I have a growing number of products using iLok PC based licencing.
|
Voda La Void
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
- Total Posts : 723
- Joined: 2011/02/12 09:15:07
- Location: Broken Arrow, OK
- Status: offline
Re: Why are hardware dongles so bad?
2018/01/03 13:41:27
(permalink)
ooblecaboodle
What grinds my gears is that every tom dick and harry seems to be trying to make their own version, so now I need a usb port for an iLok, a Waves USB Key, a Merging dongle, and so on and so forth.
Further, you're at the mercy of every one of those to maintain the dongle solution and how they apply it to software releases. Dongle A works for Version A, then a few years down the line Version A is no longer supported and they have developed a new dongle B to work with Version B, and "unfortunately" dongle A isn't supported either since it goes with Version A software...dongle A breaks and...you're done. But no worries - just buy their new Software Version B! I see dongles becoming a new layer to screw customers as more and more people accept the idea. The more dongles become normalized, the more of a screwing customers will take as a result of it. Constantly inventing a new dongle platform and style, and linking it to software support. I'm still using windows XP Home Studio II and X1. This machine will run for another 5 to 10 years, easy. Yet, XP is no longer supported by Microsoft, and Cakewalk is over. If both of those took a dongle, and either of them broke, I would be out of luck. Yet, this "recording box" is perfect. Nothing wrong with it at all. I just can't really contemplate the rage that would overcome my self control when faced with perfectly working software and hardware...but I'm out of business over a freakin dongle that was never in my interest in the first place.
Voda La Void...experiments in disturbing frequencies...
|