Helpful ReplyWhy are there no dedicated High End hardware for Sonar integration

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Joe_A
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Re: Why are there no dedicated High End hardware for Sonar integration 2017/10/20 17:29:35 (permalink)
Time to time there are references to "industry standards" which there are (I can't name them without looking them up) but there are IEEE, TIA/EIA, and (here put the recording standards body and articles). If hardware and software are constructed to industry governing body standards all will be compatible. Kind of like other industries.
He who goes proprietary does at own risk.

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#31
Audioicon
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Re: Why are there no dedicated High End hardware for Sonar integration 2017/10/20 17:51:50 (permalink)
Joe_A
Time to time there are references to "industry standards" which there are (I can't name them without looking them up) but there are IEEE, TIA/EIA, and (here put the recording standards body and articles). If hardware and software are constructed to industry governing body standards all will be compatible. Kind of like other industries.
He who goes proprietary does at own risk.


AHHH... WHAT!!??
#32
Audioicon
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Re: Why are there no dedicated High End hardware for Sonar integration 2017/10/20 17:54:19 (permalink)
Starise
When I think of integration I am reminded of the way Presonus has integrated their hardware.


Exactly.
#33
John
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Re: Why are there no dedicated High End hardware for Sonar integration 2017/10/20 18:12:44 (permalink)
Audioicon
John
but keeping those things going is not something most software companies do well. 


Yep, wonder how Pro-tools did it.
All I am hearing are arguments about what's not possible.

Some would say Avid is a hardware company. 

Best
John
#34
Joe_A
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Re: Why are there no dedicated High End hardware for Sonar integration 2017/10/20 19:26:29 (permalink)
Audiocon...In other industries products are built to industry wide governing standards including software and physical products.

When different mfgrs construct on a standards based platform interoperability is achieved and one doesn't have to worry about different products working together.
No depending on statements like "will work with this or that named product" is required.

Hard to say more direct than that.

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#35
Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
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Re: Why are there no dedicated High End hardware for Sonar integration 2017/10/20 19:45:07 (permalink)
Audioicon
I appreciate all the input. First, this post has nothing to do with Pro-tools. I mention Pro-tools because they have dedicated hardware for their Software, Motu (Digital Performer).

Gibson owns Cakewalk, they also own Tascam, so why will it be far fetched to make a dedicated Interface or Hardware for Sonar?

Dedicated Hardware means better integration and less problems for users.

 
There was this:
http://forum.cakewalk.com...US2x2-In-m3550197.aspx

Keith
#36
PhilW
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Re: Why are there no dedicated High End hardware for Sonar integration 2017/10/20 20:07:31 (permalink)
For the life of me, I cannot imagine why anyone would buy high-end hardware that locked them into Sonar. The inability to use something else just wouldn't fly. Yes, I know, Pro Tools, but they have had that for ages, the ship has sailed. 
#37
Keni
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Re: Why are there no dedicated High End hardware for Sonar integration 2017/10/20 20:12:59 (permalink)
Just for laughs...
 
Why not write a Sonar interface to Avid Consoles? Let users of their hardware choose the DAW of their' choice?
 
I'm sure they've thought of it....

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#38
Zargg
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Re: Why are there no dedicated High End hardware for Sonar integration 2017/10/20 20:13:30 (permalink)
I love how the Console 1 is integrated 
With help, I have gotten my Tascam FW1884 to function with faders and pan as well.
I am, and guess several of us are more interested in a more advanced option. A MIDI Controller/Control surface with deep integration with SONAR.
 

Ken Nilsen
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#39
Joe_A
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Re: Why are there no dedicated High End hardware for Sonar integration 2017/10/20 20:15:45 (permalink)
Dedicated proprietary hardware can also mean less flexibility in future. Not a given, but a hazard that is inherent to using those terms.
But some will like the warm fuzzy, some won't.

jambrose@cfl.rr.com  Sonar Plat. Lifetime. Started in Sonar 4, each through 8.5.3PE.
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#40
Zargg
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Re: Why are there no dedicated High End hardware for Sonar integration 2017/10/20 20:38:33 (permalink)
You really wanted to get your point across

Ken Nilsen
Zargg
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#41
Audioicon
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Re: Why are there no dedicated High End hardware for Sonar integration 2017/10/20 22:11:43 (permalink)
PhilW
For the life of me, I cannot imagine why anyone would buy high-end hardware that locked them into Sonar. The inability to use something else just wouldn't fly. Yes, I know, Pro Tools, but they have had that for ages, the ship has sailed. 


With opinion like yours in the board room. Ideas are DOA.
#42
abacab
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Re: Why are there no dedicated High End hardware for Sonar integration 2017/10/20 22:12:48 (permalink)
Here we are: 
 
Complete PC Audio Recording System
A complete, preconfigured, Studio-in-a-Box, TASCAM Track Factory Project features an Intel NUC PC pre-loaded with Cakewalk SONAR Professional Recording Software, a TASCAM US-2x2 USB Audio Interface, TASCAM TH-02 headphones and a TASCAM TM-80 Condenser Microphone. 
Turn on, plug in and rock out.
http://www.tascam.com/product/trackfactory_project/
 
Get it here for $1299
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TrackFactory
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1312083-REG/tascam_track_factory_project.html
 
No reviews at either site. That says this is not a hot seller.  But it is available.  Plug and play for all! 

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#43
AT
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Re: Why are there no dedicated High End hardware for Sonar integration 2017/10/21 14:30:38 (permalink)
Pro Tools was always a hardware company.  They started out with a dsp accelerator card and interface - that was the first lower-cost, commercially available digital recording solution for home computers.  Even today many "pro tool" systems are DSP units for zero latency (plus a bunch of other stuff) years before anyone else came up w/ home studio digital.. 
 
Just because Avid does the software too (Avid started as video editing systems), one should know they did hardware, too, and went from interfaces/DSP to controllers.  And they can not because they are universal, but most hi-end recording studios use their products and spend the money on expensive hardware.
 
Anyone can always put up the money and invest in a hardware controller designed for only SONAR and how you want to work with it.  It would be expensive, tho, which is probably why no proprietary system (except for protools) is successful.

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#44
twelvetone
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Re: Why are there no dedicated High End hardware for Sonar integration 2017/10/21 16:33:54 (permalink)
Audioicon
...Cakewalk/Sonar HD completely configured for Sonar.

Thoughts?



I think that would discourage sales.
 
I have the Cakewalk UA-101 and UA-25EX. They work with anything.
 
I am currently considering the Cakewalk V-Studio 20.
And if it only works with Cakewalk Guitar Tracks?
No sale.
#45
Audioicon
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Re: Why are there no dedicated High End hardware for Sonar integration 2017/10/21 16:53:49 (permalink)
dwardzala
I think the issue here is what would the benefit be, or the why buy?  Why buy this cakewalk branded hardware?  It may or may not be lower latency.  It may or may not be easier to set up. 



WOW! Maybe I am more optimistic because I work with technology for a living.

You sound like this:

"Why have UBER?" There are taxis and no one is going to ride UBER.
"Why have AIRB&B?" There are hotels and no one will need to stay in peoples house.
"Why have Twitter?" People will prefer to write letters.

See my friend, the idea and premise of technology is to do the unknown, is to break down barriers of impossibilities.

So do you have any thoughts on the possibilities?

Presonous does this for Studio and it is highly attractive and users love it. I am not only talking about Audio Interfaces, I am talking about Controls Surfaces.

My apologies if I sound brash, I am just trying to state, that you have to look at the possibilities of technology, not simply the possibilities of short-comings.

I'll leave you with this: Nothing we have today would exists if the people creating these transformations were more focus on the "Why it may not work."

Think about it.
#46
Audioicon
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Re: Why are there no dedicated High End hardware for Sonar integration 2017/10/21 16:56:24 (permalink)
PhilW
For the life of me, I cannot imagine why anyone would buy high-end hardware that locked them into Sonar. The inability to use something else just wouldn't fly. Yes, I know, Pro Tools, but they have had that for ages, the ship has sailed. 



Where in my post did I say LOCK? I said tight integration, I used pro-tools as an example but I did not say it had to be locked. Think Studio One and Presonous, you can use one without the other even though there is tight integration.

Again, it does not have to be locked to Sonar but tightly integrated.
#47
Audioicon
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Re: Why are there no dedicated High End hardware for Sonar integration 2017/10/21 17:00:33 (permalink)
Majority of the response are about "why it is not possible." To me this is detrimental to the standing of Cakewalk of an industry powerhouse. Making Software alone is not going to push Cakewalk over the edge. I think we can see that all around us.

Cakewalk is owned by  a company who also owns Tascam. I cannot imagine, Tascam releasing a Control 24 for Sonar and nobody wanting to buy it.

We are talking technology here.
#48
listen
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Re: Why are there no dedicated High End hardware for Sonar integration 2017/10/21 17:20:51 (permalink)
Audioicon
Majority of the response are about "why it is not possible." To me this is detrimental to the standing of Cakewalk of an industry powerhouse. Making Software alone is not going to push Cakewalk over the edge. I think we can see that all around us.

Cakewalk is owned by  a company who also owns Tascam. I cannot imagine, Tascam releasing a Control 24 for Sonar and nobody wanting to buy it.

We are talking technology here.




Oh, that would be so nice - Tascam are you listening, Tascam we are talking to you!!!!

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Nothing but the grace of God - mggtg.



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#49
abacab
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Re: Why are there no dedicated High End hardware for Sonar integration 2017/10/21 17:22:32 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tlw 2017/10/22 00:02:33
It really has nothing to do with the possibilities of technology.  Your ideas and dreams are great, except for one thing.
 
To have a business, you need customers to buy your stuff.  And they have to buy enough stuff to repay your investors for the development and design of said technology, as well as provide them with a nice profit.
 
Don't assume that the tech companies in the music industry are not already paying very close attention to marketing data and sales trends.   It's an industry with very tight profit margins, with a few companies on the brink of going out of business.
 
"If you build it, they will come" only works in the movies...

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#50
Audioicon
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Re: Why are there no dedicated High End hardware for Sonar integration 2017/10/21 17:57:11 (permalink)
abacab
Your ideas and dreams are great, except for one thing.
 



Yep, I have always had these ideas and dreams about Cakewalk. It's my life's dream that someday I will throw away my Mackie MCU for a newly introduced Sonar Controller.
 
I dream, I dream. 
#51
azslow3
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Re: Why are there no dedicated High End hardware for Sonar integration 2017/10/21 21:49:41 (permalink)
3 companies has proved it make no sense to make CW dedicated devices: Peavey, Roland and Nektar
 
I have spend a lot of time to find the reason: close to no one really want it. In fact anyone can integrate any Control Surface with Sonar, as deep as supported by Sonar. And I speak not about AZ Controller (which make that task significantly simpler), I speak about CW SDK which exists much longer. Several people was brave and have used the opportunity. Several more use the result. To make such project commercially successful, you need more (probably much more) then 1k customers.
So I do not think anyone want to commit commercial suicide just because someone has a dream about "high end" (I do not think such definition even exist in audio production world... it comes from selling digital cables for over $100...).
 
Note that SSL with its Nucleus, the device with $5k price tag, have decided to not spend the money (for dedicated Sonar integration). For sure they could sell 100+ more devices with it (with at least $1k interest per unit).

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#52
Audioicon
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Re: Why are there no dedicated High End hardware for Sonar integration 2017/10/21 23:46:56 (permalink)
Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
Audioicon
I appreciate all the input. First, this post has nothing to do with Pro-tools. I mention Pro-tools because they have dedicated hardware for their Software, Motu (Digital Performer).

Gibson owns Cakewalk, they also own Tascam, so why will it be far fetched to make a dedicated Interface or Hardware for Sonar?

Dedicated Hardware means better integration and less problems for users.

 
There was this:
http://forum.cakewalk.com...US2x2-In-m3550197.aspx




Sure but more on the upper side. Like even mid-range interns of connectivity.


#53
dubdisciple
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Re: Why are there no dedicated High End hardware for Sonar integration 2017/10/22 00:43:48 (permalink)
There are various combinations of why you are unlikely to get a dedicated sonar hardware:

1. Sonar is not a hardware company. Many forget that it was Digidesign's hardware that pushed their product protools into prominence and not the other way around. Presonus, a hardware company has taken the plunge into software and even they have made the choice to make hardware usable by most.

2. More and more hardware works fairly well with multiple systems, making the market limiting dedication to one product less advantageous. The nektar keyboard controller works damn near as good as a proprietary device for multiple daws.

3. Sonar is more of an all arounder DAW than a specialized product. A product like Ableton gains far more functionality with a dedicated controller than Sonar or most major DAWs. The most common functions to a DAW are available on any decent control surface. With the nektar controller ( a relatively inexpensive option) I can create new tracks, arm, record, select tracks, control vst instrument settings, control effect parameters and so much more with minimal setup. Ableton, being more of a performance platform than traditional DAW requires it to have needs not really covered by generic controllers.

4. Sonar simply doesn't have the demand for such a product. For many sonar users having such a product may not do much more for them than current setup. When Roland owned company, some purchased controllers that were designed to work well with sonar and results and response were underwhelming. Not dismissing product. It was actually decent, but not so good that it was viewed as must have to enhance sonar experience in way that was significant.

5. The idea that Tascam division of Gibson could somehow create such a product seems farfetched, considering the struggles it has had in recent years. Big roll of the dice for a struggling company to do for a product that may not have the demand necessary to warrant such a risk. Besides, when companies like Gibson acquire companies like sonar and tascam, the level of integration rarely becomes complete enough for fortunes to merge so tightly.
#54
listen
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Re: Why are there no dedicated High End hardware for Sonar integration 2017/10/22 02:24:15 (permalink)
Ok I am the Optimist - they told the Wright Brothers they could never fly; thought the world was flat; never thought we would have electricity;  etc....    Never, say never...

- Listen -
FOH Mixer & Recording Studio Manager
Nothing but the grace of God - mggtg.



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#55
dubdisciple
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Re: Why are there no dedicated High End hardware for Sonar integration 2017/10/22 02:44:16 (permalink)
you will never have flying magical monkeys emerge from your butt singing the sound of music.  So, yes, you can say never at times with reasonable certainty. Yes, it is possible someone may develop "high end" hardware specifically for Sonar, but unless something changes where Sonar develops such a unique function set that requires proprietary functionality not available on existing hardware or sonar dominates the professional market in he way pro tools has over the last three decades, it is probably not a wise business move. 
#56
Audioicon
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Re: Why are there no dedicated High End hardware for Sonar integration 2017/10/22 03:35:30 (permalink)
dubdisciple
you will never have flying magical monkeys emerge from your butt singing the sound of music.  So, yes, you can say never at times with reasonable certainty.


Oh snap!!

You know, that may become a hit.
#57
THambrecht
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Re: Why are there no dedicated High End hardware for Sonar integration 2017/10/22 12:23:53 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Zargg 2017/10/22 12:54:38
The problem is:
Yesterday Cakewalk was "by" Roland.
Today Cakewalk is by Gibson and the Roland VS-700 gets no windows 10 drivers.
Tomorrow Cakewalk leaves Gibson and is by xxxx.
And then the Gibson and Tascam controller will get no drivers for upcoming windows updates.
So I think the best what Cakewalk can do is to make their software compatible with the common protocolls to other hardware. Or integrate them like the Console 1.
 

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#58
Audioicon
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Re: Why are there no dedicated High End hardware for Sonar integration 2017/10/22 17:04:39 (permalink)
THambrecht
The problem is:
Yesterday Cakewalk was "by" Roland.
Today Cakewalk is by Gibson and the Roland VS-700 gets no windows 10 drivers.
Tomorrow Cakewalk leaves Gibson and is by xxxx.
And then the Gibson and Tascam controller will get no drivers for upcoming windows updates.
So I think the best what Cakewalk can do is to make their software compatible with the common protocolls to other hardware. Or integrate them like the Console 1.



That in it self is extremely disturbing. 
Something tells me, there will be others but I'll try to keep the focus on my original post.
#59
dubdisciple
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Re: Why are there no dedicated High End hardware for Sonar integration 2017/10/22 18:30:27 (permalink)
Audioicon
dubdisciple
you will never have flying magical monkeys emerge from your butt singing the sound of music.  So, yes, you can say never at times with reasonable certainty.


Oh snap!!

You know, that may become a hit.


Permission to use lol
#60
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