Audioicon

THambrecht
The problem is:
Yesterday Cakewalk was "by" Roland.
Today Cakewalk is by Gibson and the Roland VS-700 gets no windows 10 drivers.
Tomorrow Cakewalk leaves Gibson and is by xxxx.
And then the Gibson and Tascam controller will get no drivers for upcoming windows updates.
So I think the best what Cakewalk can do is to make their software compatible with the common protocolls to other hardware. Or integrate them like the Console 1.

That in it self is extremely disturbing. 
Something tells me, there will be others but I'll try to keep the focus on my original post.

Here's more that might disturb you.
My new Tascam US-2x2 interface came with Sonar LE AND Ableton Live.
 
And here's something to calm you.
Gibson guitars need no drivers.
 

azslow3
 
On control surface level, Sonar already support most common protocols (MCU and EUCON). With AZ Controller, it support OSC and Game Controller protocols.

Does this mean we can use game pads with AZ Controller to control MIDI?

Zargg

abacab

azslow3
 
On control surface level, Sonar already support most common protocols (MCU and EUCON). With AZ Controller, it support OSC and Game Controller protocols.

Does this mean we can use game pads with AZ Controller to control MIDI?

IIRC, Alexey made a preset for a (correct me if I'm wrong) blind person to use a joystick as a SONAR controller.

I would love to be able to use a surplus game pad with analog joysticks to control x-y pads in VST's, or to use for an extra mod wheel, etc.
 
FYI, Z3TA+2 has native gamepad controller support for the internal x-y pad.  But normally this is not exposed so that you can MIDI learn a gamepad joystick with any VST.

abacab

Zargg

abacab

azslow3
 
On control surface level, Sonar already support most common protocols (MCU and EUCON). With AZ Controller, it support OSC and Game Controller protocols.

Does this mean we can use game pads with AZ Controller to control MIDI?

IIRC, Alexey made a preset for a (correct me if I'm wrong) blind person to use a joystick as a SONAR controller.

I would love to be able to use a surplus game pad with analog joysticks to control x-y pads in VST's, or to use for an extra mod wheel, etc.
 
FYI, Z3TA+2 has native gamepad controller support for the internal x-y pad.  But normally this is not exposed so that you can MIDI learn a gamepad joystick with any VST.

I just remember being very impressed over what they accomplished.
http://www.azslow.com/index.php?topic=257.0
 

Wow,
 
What a great discussion!! 
 
If Tascam could come up with a more recent version of the Us 2400 Control Surface for Sonar and make it affordable, then they will have a winner. The key is they must keep it with the changes in the Operating Systems for this to work.

Jesse G
Wow,
 
What a great discussion!! 
 
If Tascam could come up with a more recent version of the Us 2400 Control Surface for Sonar and make it affordable, then they will have a winner. The key is they must keep it with the changes in the Operating Systems for this to work.

I'm still using a Tascam FW 1884 in the latest version of SONAR Platinum and Win 10 X64 as a Control Surface.
I only use it for faders, pan, play, record etc, but it works like a charm 
When it goes bye bye, I'll probably go for a Behringer X-Touch, if nothing new has happened in the meantime.

Jesse G

Zargg

I'm still using a Tascam FW 1884 in the latest version of SONAR Platinum and Win 10 X64 as a Control Surface.
I only use it for faders, pan, play, record etc, but it works like a charm 
When it goes bye bye, I'll probably go for a Behringer X-Touch, if nothing new has happened in the meantime.

Zargg,
 
You still have a Tascam FW 1884?   I remember wanting one of those soooo bad when they came out.  I am shocked that they are working with SPLAT.     Hold onto that Jewel man!

I'll keep it as long as it fires up once in a while  
I don't have any issues with it, after I got help from Tom Deering/DeeringAmps setting it up, using the correct drivers, SONAR plugin etc.
A recent photo of it

PS. That's Mike closest to the camera 
 

THambrecht
Definition "High End":
High End is for me also a definition for hardware that is 100% stable in 24/7 use.
For example a tape machine Studer A80 or a broadcast turntable EMT 948, which was in a lot of radio stations. The needle is playing 3 years with 365 days 24/7 - and not only 1000 records. Changing the needle-system or boards in the turntable in 5 seconds. They are stable - and you can also hear the difference in audio quality to other machines. And they do their job after 40 years daily use!!!
We digitaze old tapes and vinyl round the clock, therefore computers run 24/7.
RME Fireface 800 runs longer then a year, without switching off. And there are never problems during recording analog medias. Focusrite interfaces had sometimes problems when they are longer used as 14 days, then the laptops had to be restartet - so this is not HighEnd. A Roland Quad Capture can run a year without switching off, when the laptop runs 365 days 24/7.
"HighEnd" is therefore also that you can use your hardware 365 days 24/7 over decades.

Lol, sounds like you're a luddite with an analogue fetish...and what you're saying is a misnomer. All music technology has issues, and all music technology esp tape machines need services. My system, which is a MoTU Ultralite 3, with an Acer quad core laptop, 32 gig ram, 6 gig graphics, SSD drive and music SSD connected via USB 3 is about 98% reliable - demonstrates you don't really understand what high end is in the contemporary music era. And 98% because every once in a while...like the humans who design this tech, and who themselves are not infallible, it develops glitches...oh my bleeding heart...I need to do a restart lol. And even though I buy a new laptop every 2-3 years...you don't need a specially built PC these days for audio or film/video processing, it is still a hell of a lot cheaper than the million dollars it cost Hendrix to build Electric Lady Studios in 1970. Today for around 10,000 grand I can design you a 100 % portable rig...no studio needed for tracking, mixing and mastering, with a guarantee the most you will need to do is restart the machine. No faffing around with expensive and glitch prone tape machines, no faffing around with broken cassettes on analogue desks...just a very reliable and totally fitted out virtual studio, that can replicate Abbey Road,Olympic and a number of other classic studios. My MoTU interface is still going strong after 7 years, but it is the next price of gear in line for an upgrade...I want a Thunderbolt interface...yep laptop has a Thunderbolt 3 port, meaning I should be able to play my virtual tech in real time. Neat

BenMMusTech

THambrecht
Definition "High End":
High End is for me also a definition for hardware that is 100% stable in 24/7 use.
For example a tape machine Studer A80 or a broadcast turntable EMT 948, which was in a lot of radio stations. The needle is playing 3 years with 365 days 24/7 - and not only 1000 records. Changing the needle-system or boards in the turntable in 5 seconds. They are stable - and you can also hear the difference in audio quality to other machines. And they do their job after 40 years daily use!!!
We digitaze old tapes and vinyl round the clock, therefore computers run 24/7.
RME Fireface 800 runs longer then a year, without switching off. And there are never problems during recording analog medias. Focusrite interfaces had sometimes problems when they are longer used as 14 days, then the laptops had to be restartet - so this is not HighEnd. A Roland Quad Capture can run a year without switching off, when the laptop runs 365 days 24/7.
"HighEnd" is therefore also that you can use your hardware 365 days 24/7 over decades.

Lol, sounds like you're a luddite with an analogue fetish...and what you're saying is a misnomer. All music technology has issues, and all music technology esp tape machines need services. My system, which is a MoTU Ultralite 3, with an Acer quad core laptop, 32 gig ram, 6 gig graphics, SSD drive and music SSD connected via USB 3 is about 98% reliable - demonstrates you don't really understand what high end is in the contemporary music era. And 98% because every once in a while...like the humans who design this tech, and who themselves are not infallible, it develops glitches...oh my bleeding heart...I need to do a restart lol. And even though I buy a new laptop every 2-3 years...you don't need a specially built PC these days for audio or film/video processing, it is still a hell of a lot cheaper than the million dollars it cost Hendrix to build Electric Lady Studios in 1970. Today for around 10,000 grand I can design you a 100 % portable rig...no studio needed for tracking, mixing and mastering, with a guarantee the most you will need to do is restart the machine. No faffing around with expensive and glitch prone tape machines, no faffing around with broken cassettes on analogue desks...just a very reliable and totally fitted out virtual studio, that can replicate Abbey Road,Olympic and a number of other classic studios. My MoTU interface is still going strong after 7 years, but it is the next price of gear in line for an upgrade...I want a Thunderbolt interface...yep laptop has a Thunderbolt 3 port, meaning I should be able to play my virtual tech in real time. Neat

May be you do not understand that for some people and some applications, if something is stuck once per 2 month that is a peace of crap... independent from the label, price and performance.
At work, if something is stuck for the second time, I send it to manufacturer. If that is not possible/does not solve the problem, I throw that away from the system. Wasting $1-5k per such peace... but the rest of the system works fine.
 
20 years ago, "smart" colleagues have decided that "a specially build PCs (servers)" are not required, and they have constructed a farm from 250 normal desktop PCs. You can guess how good that was working.
 
So I like that (I agree not traditional) definition of "High end" 
 

@BenMMusTech
We don't make music - We digitize old tapes and vinyl for publishers, libraries and customers.
We are in Germany - Quality stands before the price.
If you don't have "HighEnd" hardware like Studer A80, EMT 948 and other expensive hardware you will get no work from the pusblishers and libraries. If you have only a Technics SL-1200 instead on an EMT, you get no work to digitize vinyl. If you have only AKAI instead of Studer - you get no work to digitize tapes. The customer wants to have a list of your hardware and decides who gets the assignment. Because the customer knows that an EMT948 has a better sound then a Technics SL-1200 ... and so on. Most customers want to have very selectet hardware for digitizing there audio.
The same goes for audiointerfaces. Minimum standard is RME Fireface 800 or higher. Otherwise the customer goes elsewhere.

Universal integration protocols seem to satisfy the vast majority of users. The user is free to use whatever hardware they like with Sonar. Interfaces considered high end work with Sonar like RME and Apollo. I'm not sure what the argument is in favor of this?

 
But it's fun to beat dead horses!
 
I agree. If it happened there would be something users don't like about it. 

abacab
It is not going to happen because there is no market for it!
 
I believe that horse has been beaten fully at this point. 
 
It has nothing to do with whether or not Gibson chooses to invest in Cakewalk.  No sane business person would take the financial risk of developing dedicated hardware for a single DAW software application.

Amen, exactly well said.

The idea that any investment in a system is considered a waste by so called dedicated fans and users, tells me Cakewalk will see more pass-around.  Well, they say that insanity is failing the same thing over and over again with no changes.  Cake itself did a hardware unit back in the day w/ Pro I think.  It is referenced in this thread (did everyone read that?).  Then with SONAR and Roland they did 2 controllers - the VS series.  Ya mon, those sold like wheatcakes at a gluten-free convention.  Both were excellent pieces of hardware LIMITED by their exclusivity to SONAR.  And Roland has no reason to update them since they pass-arounded Cake.  I imagine they lost a lot of money making those units, so sold off the software half of the loss - Cake.
 
AVID is in a unique position in that PT is used almost exclusively in large, expensive studios that can afford to spend $10,000s on hardware controller integration and they've always been a hardware company.  I think I've mentioned that.
 
There are plenty of companies that make hardware controllers to fit your pocket and needs, except they all depend upon a layer of software to work w/ SONAR.  That would be a lot cheaper to fix than sinking another $250,000 in a hardware solution that keeps failing.

It seems we have extreme views at each end of the issue, and comments that amount to blanket statements that are intended to make it appear everyone in that group is on board with an idea.
 
Audioicon, the statement you quote above is only partially true since we have  hardware manufacturers who have set out to design a good software/hardware integration in hardware/software they make. Even they make their hardware to work with other software. They are savy enough to do BOTH. Case in point- I own a Presonus interface that works wonderfully with Sonar, yet it integrates slightly better with Studio One. Since this is a one time setup the slightly less intuitive setup isn't a problem for me. I mean, I do it once and I'm done. I tend to use Sonar more often than Studio One. The only real difference to me was SO seen my inputs/outputs and identified them. Setting buffers was slightly easier. Both setups are no brainers for me though.
 
From this perspective I see no real benefit to spending huge amounts of money on the  R&D of dedicated hardware. I CAN however see a benefit to Tascam/Cake making the existing hardware more friendly to Sonar if that is possible.How would we do that though? What is unfriendly now? And what do you consider to be high end hardware? Both Tascam and Roland have a large prosumer base. What would you like to see integrated? I/O is already integrated as  ASIO or WMA drivers. As I mentioned Cake is working close with Microsoft to make sure Sonar works with all new I/O tech Microsoft comes out with. So far as I know, Cakewalk is the front runner on this. 
 
Avid has their market, Sonar and the others have their market. Many large studios are suffering. Bad for Avid. Good for Sonar.Why buy a system that ties you to dedicated hardware? 
 
So what would the kind of integration you want look like? How is this an advantage to you or anyone else?