Why does X3 producer use so much CPU?

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2014/01/06 12:05:50 (permalink)

Why does X3 producer use so much CPU?

I use Acustica-audio Nebula 3 which I really like but unfortunately I can't use many instances of it in X3 pro therefore I tried Reaper as a host and to my surprise I could use far more instances of Nebula.I have been using Sonar for a few years now and I have got used to the GUI so I would like to keep using it as I have bought the prochannel modules and I am used to the hardware mixer paradigm but it runs like a slug compared to Reaper.I also use Logic and have done for years but I am reluctant to buy a new mac(as my present mac is only a dual core)just to run the latest version of Logic.Am I missing something in the preferences that would lighten the processor demand(I have a quad core i5 with 8 gigs ram win7 machine)I have the often reported 1st core spiking on the cpu meter.Is X3 just a CPU hog?
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    Splat
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    Re: Why does X3 producer use so much CPU? 2014/01/06 12:12:09 (permalink)
    Please update your footer with your system and software specs.
    And turn off Intel speedstep (plenty of threads about it in these forums).
    Update to X3D.
    Check my system specs, my cores rarely go over 40%.
     
    Cheers...

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    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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    Starise
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    Re: Why does X3 producer use so much CPU? 2014/01/06 12:20:24 (permalink)
     
    X3 isn't normally a cpu hog. I don't know what else is going on but I can confirm using it with great success on borderline machines.

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    #3
    Pict
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    Re: Why does X3 producer use so much CPU? 2014/01/06 13:13:17 (permalink)
    I have switched off speed step but there is no difference X3 can only run 6 instances of Nebula compared to 16 in Reaper. 1st core still spikes in Sonar.

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    Re: Why does X3 producer use so much CPU? 2014/01/06 13:22:36 (permalink)
    Sadly comparing performance with DAWs isn't a particularly scientific approach.
    Did you update to X3D?
    I'm not seeing much detail at all in your footer (check mine) so all I can say is perform some general maintenance tasks, run Windows update, and run this:
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/Driver-Boost-m2928792.aspx
     
    And defrag.
     
    You will then need to look into optimizing your buffers and latency.

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    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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    Re: Why does X3 producer use so much CPU? 2014/01/06 13:24:03 (permalink)
    Did you reset your Thread Scheduling in SONAR? It defaults to dual core, you have to set it for quad and higher manually.
     
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    Grumbleweed_
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    Re: Why does X3 producer use so much CPU? 2014/01/06 13:47:50 (permalink)
    CakeAlexS
    Sadly comparing performance with DAWs isn't a particularly scientific approach.
    Did you update to X3D?
    I'm not seeing much detail at all in your footer (check mine) so all I can say is perform some general maintenance tasks, run Windows update, and run this:
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/Driver-Boost-m2928792.aspx
     
    And defrag.
     
    You will then need to look into optimizing your buffers and latency.


    But it works fine in Reaper.

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    Re: Why does X3 producer use so much CPU? 2014/01/06 13:55:41 (permalink)
    Er... what I wrote...

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    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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    Re: Why does X3 producer use so much CPU? 2014/01/06 14:20:11 (permalink)
    I have added the system specs .This laptop has nothing on it but X3 ,Reaper, and audio plugins  has never been connected to the net except for os updates and only has an edirol pcr300 controller and a vs100 attached so i really don't think it's driver related.Thread scheduling is set to 2 latency is currently at max and has been tried at every setting disc is defragged.What are the best buffer settings?Currently running X3D.
     
    The essence of science is observation and I have observed that Reaper runs far more instances of my preferred plugin than X3 does with the exact same hardware configuration.It doesn't glitch and is overall far lighter on the cpu than X3 I'm not trying to convert Sonar users to Reaper I just don't see why there should be such a performance gap with the same hardware and the same settings.Sonar is a much bigger program with many more features but I have to admit I have been less than delighted with its performance since I first started using it although recently it has become more stable it still remains for me very resource intensive.I bought the melodyne upgrade so it's beginning to look like I will end up using X3 for the ara integration but generally I'm  getting a bit fed up with it in other respects.Bloat is the word that springs to my mind.
    Thanks for your efforts in assisting me much appreciated that you take the time but sadly nothing seems to make X3 perform as I would like and I feel like I'm wasting money on it.
     

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    Re: Why does X3 producer use so much CPU? 2014/01/06 14:51:57 (permalink)
    Pict
    Thanks for your efforts in assisting me much appreciated that you take the time but sadly nothing seems to make X3 perform as I would like and I feel like I'm wasting money on it.



    If you are not going to spend some time tuning and optimizing your machine with the software then you probably are wasting your time, and as I say comparisons with other DAW's is a waste of time (and ultimately your money). All DAW's are not the same.
     
    I'm not experiencing what you are experiencing at all, but then I calibrated my system and it's settings. BTW again your system specs are fairly useless to me, again check my footer the devil is in the detail.
     
    > The essence of science is observation
     
    I guess then I was wrong, the world is flat... (It's no good if you happen to be observing the wrong thing).
    Anyway good luck with that....
     
    Thanks..
    post edited by CakeAlexS - 2014/01/06 15:02:02

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    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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    Pict
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    Re: Why does X3 producer use so much CPU? 2014/01/06 15:13:31 (permalink)
    Do you intend to be as obtuse,abrasive,sarcastic,and condescending as your reply implies Alex?

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    Re: Why does X3 producer use so much CPU? 2014/01/06 15:20:49 (permalink)
    No we just have to agree to disagree, you believe that because other DAW's perform a certain way Sonar should as well. Nope sorry I disagree.
     
    You say the essence of science is observation, and I disagree, the essence of science is knowing what to observe in the first place (that may require a lot of observation though, and judgement is knowing what to rule out).
     
    That is a disagreement not a personal thing.
    And it's hard to talk about performance when you won't show your full system specs. You don't seem interested in fixing this issue, rather just making a point for which I don't really see any groundwork.

    I apologise if you feel like I'm being sarcastic or whatever, I'm just being straight to the point. I suggest moving on...
    post edited by CakeAlexS - 2014/01/06 15:30:45

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    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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    Pict
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    Re: Why does X3 producer use so much CPU? 2014/01/06 15:30:06 (permalink)
    To Dan who sent me a PM I'm sorry I can't reply with a PM as I don't have the required number of posts to do so.Thank you for your informative and gracious message.

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    Re: Why does X3 producer use so much CPU? 2014/01/06 15:45:23 (permalink)
    I have found X3 to use less CPU than X2. Also its more balanced with multi cores.  This is on Windows 8.1 64 bit. 

    Best
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    Re: Why does X3 producer use so much CPU? 2014/01/06 15:46:15 (permalink)
    I agree with Alex here, don't want to rock the boat really, but he is right, its almost impossible to compare DAW's. I am sure that each setup needs its own specific tuning to work most efficiently and the devil is most certainly in the detail.  
    With that said, i would say that sometimes, a particular setup just has issues with certain software/plugins and despite the best intentions, it just doesn't work the way we want it to.
    I would like my last point to be that this forum is amazing, THE best forum i know of for genuine people trying to help without agenda. Don't give up just yet.
     
    Having just seen Johns comment, i agree that the core balance is better in win 8 and better than X2. Just sorry i cant compare to reaper.
     
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    Re: Why does X3 producer use so much CPU? 2014/01/06 15:47:47 (permalink)
    Yup and I just want to apologise again if I came across rude, I was just frustrated in getting my points across..maybe a failing of mine.

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    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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    Re: Why does X3 producer use so much CPU? 2014/01/06 16:51:22 (permalink)
    Alex no problem it's often difficult to discern inflection from text I'm as guilty as anyone of presuming more than is intended from what people write on the internet (and us Celts are infamously touchy and quick to take offence). Thanks again for your time and help.

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    Re: Why does X3 producer use so much CPU? 2014/01/06 16:58:18 (permalink)
    Well honestly if you need help we are all here, thanks.

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    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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    Re: Why does X3 producer use so much CPU? 2014/01/07 09:14:26 (permalink)
    my avatar is my performance

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    Re: Why does X3 producer use so much CPU? 2014/01/07 09:28:09 (permalink)
    nebula is a cpu-hungry plug fo' sho'... how are you using the instances? if they're all on the same channel, that channel is all going to a single core i believe

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    bentleyousley
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    Re: Why does X3 producer use so much CPU? 2014/01/07 10:33:58 (permalink)
    There was a thread recently pointing to a discussion on GearSluts where a Reaper user was shocked that Sonar was running a VST test with much better results than Reaper. The Reaper user went through several interations of changes to elements of the test (even to the point of using a totally different VST) until Reaper was coming out on top. At that point the discussion ended because the Reaper user had gotten the answer they were looking for. So, perhaps you too can follow his lead and find a test that gives you the answer you are looking for.
     
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    Re: Why does X3 producer use so much CPU? 2014/01/07 10:39:55 (permalink)
    I've tried various permutations on multiple individual channels and busses to multiple instances on one channel.There is no denying that some Nebula libraries like plate reverbs devour CPU no other plugin I have sucks the life out of the processor like it but I prefer Nebula over almost everything else.It would be great to be able to use it in Sonar but either I'll track in X3 and mix down on Reaper or I'll switch over to Reaper completely which I'm reluctant to do as I'll have to develop a new workflow.A new computer with a lot more grunt would also be a solution but like many people after Christmas I'm skint so that's not on the menu for a while.

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    Re: Why does X3 producer use so much CPU? 2014/01/07 10:44:38 (permalink)
    bentleyousley
    There was a thread recently pointing to a discussion on GearSluts where a Reaper user was shocked that Sonar was running a VST test with much better results than Reaper. The Reaper user went through several interations of changes to elements of the test (even to the point of using a totally different VST) until Reaper was coming out on top. At that point the discussion ended because the Reaper user had gotten the answer they were looking for.
     
    http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/887142-dawbench-sonar-x3c-vs-reaper-4-57-a.html





     
    This is something I find useful that is quick and dirty, still not at all like a proper test, but often gives an overview:
    http://technet.microsoft.com/en-gb/sysinternals/bb896653.aspx
     
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    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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    Anderton
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    Re: Why does X3 producer use so much CPU? 2014/01/07 10:44:57 (permalink)
    Have you considered freezing tracks after you record them so only a few VI instances need to be using the CPU at any one time?

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    Re: Why does X3 producer use so much CPU? 2014/01/07 11:15:29 (permalink)
    I've tried freezing and obviously it works but I feel it slows the workflow down as i like to tweak a lot.It feels like I'm using a 4 track again when I use freeze:)

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    Re: Why does X3 producer use so much CPU? 2014/01/07 14:32:41 (permalink)
    What seems really odd to me isn't so much that Reaper may be a bit more efficient overall than SONAR - I can buy that - but rather that it's 16 vs. 6 instances of Nebula.  That's a 266% difference!  I just can't understand how one DAW could be anywhere near 2.66X more efficient than another, all (other) things being equal.
     

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    #26
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    Re: Why does X3 producer use so much CPU? 2014/01/07 15:06:20 (permalink)
    Steve that's exactly why I posted this thread.As soon as I tried Nebula in Reaper I was gobsmacked and my 1st reaction was what am I doing wrong in Sonar.In fact what prompted me to try Reaper was that Henry Olonga who produces some well respected Nebula libraries and who is also a Sonar user wrote on his website blog about how he tried Reaper and got much better results with Reaper than with Sonar.Now it may be that Sonar just doesn't get along with Nebula libraries but seeing is believing and Reaper slays Sonar when using this plugin at least on my system( and Henry Olonga's)

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    Re: Why does X3 producer use so much CPU? 2014/01/07 15:08:31 (permalink)
    stevec
    What seems really odd to me isn't so much that Reaper may be a bit more efficient overall than SONAR - I can buy that - but rather that it's 16 vs. 6 instances of Nebula.  That's a 266% difference!  I just can't understand how one DAW could be anywhere near 2.66X more efficient than another, all (other) things being equal.



    Because it's different software and a totally different environment, even if you have the same computer/drivers etc.
    You just cannot compare DAW's this way. One is chalk, the other is a cow, the other is Pamela Anderson.... that's just the way it is.
     
    I guess it's a little like probability theory, there's some stuff here that's seems like it couldn't possibly be true but it is. If you used just your eyes on some of this stuff you would be wrong, consistently, in all sorts of scenarios.

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    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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    #28
    stevec
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    Re: Why does X3 producer use so much CPU? 2014/01/07 20:35:08 (permalink)
    I understand that each DAW is unique in the way it processes plugins, audio, etc.   But a 2.66X difference seems to indicate something beyond just that.  I mean we're talking (hypothetically) 38% in one DAW vs. 100% in another (assuming one can even run at 100%).  Or maybe SONAR and Nebula simply don't get along, although it doesn't ring any bells.
     
    Pict,
    What is the CPU usage/percentage of one instance in both DAWs, across all cores that are showing activity?   How about with six instances? 
     

    SteveC
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    #29
    mudgel
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    Re: Why does X3 producer use so much CPU? 2014/01/07 20:57:56 (permalink)
    I'd be interested in how other plugins would perform or if it is only Nebula.

    Mike V. (MUDGEL)

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    #30
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