bapu
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Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 15:36:54
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It's not a subscription, no matter how you WANT to see it.
You can't make a car a squirrel just because you "see" it that way.
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Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 16:11:00
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TO the OP: Have you read none of the information from CW? Nor ANY of the hundreds of responses to exactly your questions?
Pay 149, or take advantage of the CW sponsored MONTHLY PAYMENT PLAN.
Better yet, go to your bank, borrow 149, pay for Sonar, then complain to the bank about paying your monthly subscription.
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John
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Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 16:16:47
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I think Positively Charged is Negatively Charged!  This is due to the loss of an electron!
post edited by John - 2015/06/18 16:24:07
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 16:20:21
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lfm
Positively Charged
I think this "new way" Cakewalk is taking is for the better. More and more fixes and addons have come from people here on this forum, which (in my mind) is a sign of Cakewalk listening to their users.
I doubt the current pace is indefinitely sustainable. For now, I'll try to be "cautiously optimistic".
If you get less optimistic - you can always stay away not renewing membership - this will tell Cakewalk somebody is not entirely happy here.
So you stay away until there is substantial news that is of value for you - and no penalty to re-enter.
And meanwhile you own your Sonar so far and can continue to use it.
There is a healthy dialog in this scheme.
- I like what you are doing, I'm renewing membership
- Not much happended last year, I stay away for a while waiting for something to happend...
Compare that to Avid ProTools support plan subscription which is - renew annualy or buy full new license if to come back to ProTools. Your old license is frozen indefinately.
Or rent ProTools monthly, which stops working as you stop paying.
I don't think that is always the case. It could be finances from the end user's part. People start taking on all of these monthly charges from other sources and they loose track of their finances. Some people get very religious about their software and if it works they don't want to upgrade at all. (See WindowXP)
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John
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Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 16:22:43
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kitekrazy1
lfm
Positively Charged
I think this "new way" Cakewalk is taking is for the better. More and more fixes and addons have come from people here on this forum, which (in my mind) is a sign of Cakewalk listening to their users.
I doubt the current pace is indefinitely sustainable. For now, I'll try to be "cautiously optimistic".
If you get less optimistic - you can always stay away not renewing membership - this will tell Cakewalk somebody is not entirely happy here.
So you stay away until there is substantial news that is of value for you - and no penalty to re-enter.
And meanwhile you own your Sonar so far and can continue to use it.
There is a healthy dialog in this scheme.
- I like what you are doing, I'm renewing membership
- Not much happended last year, I stay away for a while waiting for something to happend...
Compare that to Avid ProTools support plan subscription which is - renew annualy or buy full new license if to come back to ProTools. Your old license is frozen indefinately.
Or rent ProTools monthly, which stops working as you stop paying.
I don't think that is always the case. It could be finances from the end user's part. People start taking on all of these monthly charges from other sources and they loose track of their finances. Some people get very religious about their software and if it works they don't want to upgrade at all. (See WindowXP)
Why would anyone want to see Windows XP?
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SDCyclist
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Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 16:36:19
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Anyone who thinks that the bakers are at some point going to run out of good ideas to implement hasn't spent much time in the features and requests forum. Nor are they keeping up with what other DAW makers are doing that cakewalk could not only emulate but improve upon. I love this new model. More new stuff faster and my annual outlay for it is similar (in the same Ballpark anyway...) to what it has been in years past. I also have an AVID PT12 subscription but this deal seems better because if I stop at some point with Cakewalk at least I still own something. Not so with AVID.
Sonar Platinum (user since version 7) - Windows 7 64bit
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 17:35:59
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SDCyclist
Anyone who thinks that the bakers are at some point going to run out of good ideas to implement hasn't spent much time in the features and requests forum. Nor are they keeping up with what other DAW makers are doing that cakewalk could not only emulate but improve upon. I love this new model. More new stuff faster and my annual outlay for it is similar (in the same Ballpark anyway...) to what it has been in years past. I also have an AVID PT12 subscription but this deal seems better because if I stop at some point with Cakewalk at least I still own something. Not so with AVID.
Let's put it this way. It make the developers more accountable to the end user. Two or three updates and then a new paid release doesn't always make the end user happy. That was a major rant with Live 8. Now they have where you cant test the beta releases and they are updated more often.
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Kylotan
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Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 17:36:19
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I'm seeing a lot of good arguments that the current membership model is as good value, if not more so, than the previous model of buying an update every year. Probably true. (Ignoring my previously shared concerns about reliability, at least.)
What I don't think has been answered yet, is how it will work out for those of us that never did update every year, and don't intend paying $149 every year in future either.
Sonar Platinum (Newburyport) / Win 8.1 64bit / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 / Absynth / Kontakt / Play / Superior Drummer 2 / ESP LTD guitar / etc Twilight's Embrace - gothic/death metal | Other works - instrumental/soundtracks
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Anderton
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Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 18:02:26
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Kylotan
I'm seeing a lot of good arguments that the current membership model is as good value, if not more so, than the previous model of buying an update every year. Probably true. (Ignoring my previously shared concerns about reliability, at least.) I think we'll have the definitive answers about reliability well before the year is up. I suspect that on balance, it will be better to have a limited number of features generating a limited number of issues fixed quickly rather than having a large number of features generating a large number of issues fixed over months. At least that's the plan...  What I don't think has been answered yet, is how it will work out for those of us that never did update every year, and don't intend paying $149 every year in future either.
I suspect it will be very similar to how upgrades have worked in the past. If you're renewing, you get the least expensive rate. If you skipped a year, it costs a bit more. If you skipped two years, it costs more than if you skipped one year...same principle as it costs more to upgrade to a version 5.x from a version 1.x than a version 3.x.
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dwardzala
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Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 18:17:48
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☄ Helpfulby SteveStrummerUK 2015/06/19 20:48:31
John
I think Positively Charged is Negatively Charged! This is due to the loss of an electron!
Actually he would have to have gained 2 electrons.
DaveMain Studio- Core i5 @2.67GHz, 16Gb Ram, (2) 500Gb HDs, (1) 360 Gb HD MotU Ultralite AVB, Axiom 49 Midi Controller, Akai MPD18 Midi Controller Win10 x64 Home Sonar 2017.06 Platinum (and X3e, X2c, X1d) Mobile Studio - Sager NP8677 (i7-6700HQ @2.67MHz, 16G Ram, 250G SSD, 1T HD) M-Box Mini v. 2 Win 10 x64 Home Sonar 2016.10 Platinum Check out my original music: https://soundcloud.com/d-wardzala/sets/d-wardzala-original-music
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John
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Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 18:26:58
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Think of it as poetic license.
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Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 19:14:56
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Kylotan
What I don't think has been answered yet, is how it will work out for those of us that never did update every year, and don't intend paying $149 every year in future either.
The world has changed. It is about time.
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Beepster
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Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 19:24:19
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Kylotan
I'm seeing a lot of good arguments that the current membership model is as good value, if not more so, than the previous model of buying an update every year. Probably true. (Ignoring my previously shared concerns about reliability, at least.)
What I don't think has been answered yet, is how it will work out for those of us that never did update every year, and don't intend paying $149 every year in future either.
I had the same question and got answered by a Baker. If you have upgraded to Platinum (full years subscription so you own it) apparently it does not matter how long you wait. You could wait a year or more between buying a new year's "subsciption" and still pay the same as someone who's "subscription" lapsed just last month. You will get the exact same cumalitive upgrade as they do for the same price. What you DON'T get are some of the one of goodies that the Baker's toss out on a month to month basis but the core program will be intact. However the upgrade price will actually be $200... not $149... unless there is a sale going on which it seems like there will be from time to time. Cheers. PS: As to the OP... *waits for the penny to drop just like it did for every other person who freaked out about this in January* lulzity
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charlyg
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Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 19:40:34
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They just announced a $149 upgrade (sale)...
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forkol
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Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 22:42:02
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SDCyclist
Anyone who thinks that the bakers are at some point going to run out of good ideas to implement hasn't spent much time in the features and requests forum.
....
Problem that I have here is that it seems so far that the features and requests forums hasn't really seem to drive any of the most recent feature development. In an idea 'membership' model, what I'd like to see is that top-voted features get some amount of priority development time. Actually, Cakewalk development seems to go in the completely opposite direction - IIRC, I don't remember many people requesting drum replacer or Vocal Sync. I'm not saying they were not wanted by somebody, they just don't seem like features that people were clamoring for. charlyg
They just announced a $149 upgrade (sale)...
I'm still waiting/hoping that it goes lower than this as it has in the past. So far (again, just to me) I haven't been able to justify the upgrade yet, seeing that X3 is currently meeting my needs.
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Anderton
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Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/19 00:30:12
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forkol
Problem that I have here is that it seems so far that the features and requests forums hasn't really seem to drive any of the most recent feature development. Compare the bug fixes to forum comments. You'll see a very close correlation. The community made it clear that stability is important; that feedback has driven the accelerated bug fix schedule. But also read the next two paragraphs in my response. Actually, Cakewalk development seems to go in the completely opposite direction - IIRC, I don't remember many people requesting drum replacer or Vocal Sync. I'm not saying they were not wanted by somebody, they just don't seem like features that people were clamoring for. People have asked for a virtual keyboard, and got it. The Japanese market demanded DSD and got it. There were requests for being able to see all Sends and FX at the same time - done. Ditto better MIDI features and AudioSnap improvements. A more customizable control bar and putting user-defined buttons on it - done. VST3 enhancements to accommodate orchestral libraries - done. Drum map fixes - in progress. Mix Recall was mentioned in the forums as something people would like, and it's turned out to be very popular - and has also had several enhancements based on user feedback. And so on. To say that Cakewalk goes in the completely opposite direction of what people want is simply not true, nor is it a bad thing that Cakewalk has developed features that may not have been "clamored for" but have been extremely popular. That shows maybe sometimes it's a good idea for Cakewalk to go in the direction of what they would like to see in the program - everyone there uses it, and they have a really good handle on what is or is not possible. Furthermore, Cakewalk does not live in a vacuum. If other programs include features that its users really like, it's worth investigating whether those features could be adapted to SONAR. VocAlign is an essential tool for many professional users. To have it available in SONAR is something I certainly would never have clamored for, because I would never have thought it possible to include the equivalent of a $600 program in a DAW that costs $500, nor do I need to do ADR very often. But now it's there, I use it all the time for vocals. And if you wondered whether there was any interest in a drum replacer, I guess you didn't see all the "When are we getting the Drum Replacer?!?" posts after it was announced. In an idea 'membership' model, what I'd like to see is that top-voted features get some amount of priority development time. If you look at the Features & Ideas forum, you won't find a ton of slam dunks. Everyone has features they want implemented, and turning development into a popularity contest based on what people in a forum say, when the forum represents but a fraction of the user base, is probably not the wisest way to do program development. Taking into account multiple factors like user survey results, the most common needs of the greatest number of users, remaining competitive with other programs, and the needs of pro users who need a little more mojo than average, seems like it would create a more cohesive pathway for future development.
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charlyg
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Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/19 00:56:36
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☄ Helpfulby bapu 2015/06/19 11:38:36
Anderton
it would create a more cohesive pathway for future development.
to translate: it would be way more gooder
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lfm
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Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/19 02:40:08
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forkol
Problem that I have here is that it seems so far that the features and requests forums hasn't really seem to drive any of the most recent feature development. In an idea 'membership' model, what I'd like to see is that top-voted features get some amount of priority development time. Actually, Cakewalk development seems to go in the completely opposite direction - IIRC, I don't remember many people requesting drum replacer or Vocal Sync. I'm not saying they were not wanted by somebody, they just don't seem like features that people were clamoring for.
You've got a point there. First thing I saw this year that is of any interest to me, is start page improvements to get organized. Not a single thing I saw in Platinum made me remotely interested getting it. So a more user driven from FR might change that. But since some of top voted FR's are manmonths of developments probably we may have to be patient still. More important is that CWBRN's backlog are treated and fixed - nothing comes before that. Every one fixed will make at least one user very happy, and yet thousands that never have to experience the same problem just feeling "this is a darn stable daw where everything works as intended". Instead of these thousands of users that waste hours to troubleshoot and find workarounds.
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Anderton
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Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/19 10:25:45
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lfm
forkol
Problem that I have here is that it seems so far that the features and requests forums hasn't really seem to drive any of the most recent feature development. In an idea 'membership' model, what I'd like to see is that top-voted features get some amount of priority development time. Actually, Cakewalk development seems to go in the completely opposite direction - IIRC, I don't remember many people requesting drum replacer or Vocal Sync. I'm not saying they were not wanted by somebody, they just don't seem like features that people were clamoring for.
You've got a point there.
First thing I saw this year that is of any interest to me, is start page improvements to get organized. But there's a big difference between saying new features aren't of personal interest to you, compared to saying that Cakewalk development goes in the opposite direction of what people want. This post delineates new features that were requested. Those features must have been important to some people, or the features wouldn't have been requested. More important is that CWBRN's backlog are treated and fixed - nothing comes before that. If you look at the list of bug fixes that occurred between X3 and SONAR 2015, as well as the list of fixes in each release, I think you'll see that making fixes has indeed been a priority. So that's another instance of Cakewalk making changes based on the desires of many segments of the community (i.e., those who place more importance on stability than features).
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joyof60
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Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/19 10:51:01
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........i'd really just like to find out how to subscribe to the eZine or is that only available with SPlat?
Joyof60 Sonar Plat., Windows 10 Pro (64bit), Custom Build, AMD Rizen 5 @3.95GHz, Assorted HDDs, 32 Gb G.Skill RAM. Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Roland FA08, coupla guitars and misc. mics, cans, and gadgetry.
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scook
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Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/19 11:01:04
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joyof60
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Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/19 11:04:28
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.....and if stop paying monthly in August 2015, and want to start again in May of 2017, how much would that cost, and what upgrades would I get? I dearly love the concept, and I think the monthly upgrades are great, (heck, I thought the yearly upgrades were great!) just trying to get some concrete numbers so one could know how to proceed. I'm sure there are many whose finances have changed from one month to the next and not always for the best. I just believe that informed decisions are usually best.
Joyof60 Sonar Plat., Windows 10 Pro (64bit), Custom Build, AMD Rizen 5 @3.95GHz, Assorted HDDs, 32 Gb G.Skill RAM. Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Roland FA08, coupla guitars and misc. mics, cans, and gadgetry.
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scook
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Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/19 11:14:40
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I do not believe CW has published a price schedule through 2017. Walking away in Aug. 2015 would imply monthly payments because the program is not a year old. Failing to make the initial 12 consecutive payments would mean starting over in 2017 at whatever the rate is at that time. See the FAQ here http://www.cakewalk.com/P...s/SONAR/Membership#FAQ edit: grammer
post edited by scook - 2015/06/19 18:19:06
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charlyg
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Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/19 11:21:27
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It's kinda like a lifetime warranty. Sounds good, but the product(new version, sometimes just a part number change) or company has to be around to fulfill. And it means more when it says Craftsman than when it says Pittsburgh...h/t to Harbor Freight! You can't expect today's realities to remain in place indefinitely. The world does not, and has not work(ed) that way.
post edited by charlyg - 2015/06/19 11:27:30
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bapu
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Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/19 11:42:17
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joyof60, Assuming (for conversation sake) August 2015 was a full year for you (the best model to work from). May of 2017 will have a full upgrade price that CW feels the market can bear. Assuming they continue with monthly payment plans if the full upgrade price at that time is too much (for you or me) then we'll have that option available. Why would anyone expect to expect CW to know 2017 prices in 2015? When X1 came out I'm pretty sure no one asked what would the X3 upgrade cost be. We just assumed it would be roughly the same. And if it changed we either skipped the upgrade (because we were broke) or paid the price available at the time we wanted the upgrade. You have been informed, IMO. 
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Teksonik
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Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/19 12:19:00
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I've stayed with X3 Producer. At this point if I upgrade to Platinum what do I get ? Is there a chart or FAQ for that somewhere ? EDIT: I've found the release notes for Jan thru May. So if I pay the $149 now I get the latest version of Platinum and whatever new versions are released for the next 12 months ? There are additions and improvements every 2 months ?
post edited by Teksonik - 2015/06/19 12:36:43
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Teksonik
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Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/19 13:06:02
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Anderton
That shows maybe sometimes it's a good idea for Cakewalk to go in the direction of what they would like to see in the program - everyone there uses it, Sorry, got to call you on this one. Everyone out here uses Sonar as well. To place a higher value on the opinion of those who work for CW than on the opinions of those who purchased the software is.....well I think you can take it from there.......
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lfm
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Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/19 14:14:52
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Anderton
lfm
forkol
Problem that I have here is that it seems so far that the features and requests forums hasn't really seem to drive any of the most recent feature development. In an idea 'membership' model, what I'd like to see is that top-voted features get some amount of priority development time. Actually, Cakewalk development seems to go in the completely opposite direction - IIRC, I don't remember many people requesting drum replacer or Vocal Sync. I'm not saying they were not wanted by somebody, they just don't seem like features that people were clamoring for.
You've got a point there.
First thing I saw this year that is of any interest to me, is start page improvements to get organized.
But there's a big difference between saying new features aren't of personal interest to you, compared to saying that Cakewalk development goes in the opposite direction of what people want. This post delineates new features that were requested. Those features must have been important to some people, or the features wouldn't have been requested.
Thanks for commenting. I did write that he had "a point" not that I entirely agreed. If going forward is scanning and implementing feature requests - you could say that implementing and improving stuff you never saw mentioned even, is going sideways. So not going backwards or opposite - is not what I meant.
More important is that CWBRN's backlog are treated and fixed - nothing comes before that.
If you look at the list of bug fixes that occurred between X3 and SONAR 2015, as well as the list of fixes in each release, I think you'll see that making fixes has indeed been a priority. So that's another instance of Cakewalk making changes based on the desires of many segments of the community (i.e., those who place more importance on stability than features).
Incredible list of fixes and improvements we saw so far this year - thousands of manhours saved in not having to deal with those bugs anymore. And I don't consider listening to feedback of bugs the same thing as implementing feature requests. And I don't consider fixing something just broken as implementing feature requests either. But you've got a point that stability fixes aren't always obvious - since things working are just as they should be. I have a CWBRN from january, of things that were an issue in X3e. That moved to "awaiting reply" whatever that means. I put fresh update now that this still not working in Artist Everett and will see what happends. Some plugins loaded inside Metaplugin does not initialize to host sample rate in Sonar. It works in Cubase, StudioOne, Reaper, Mixcraft. Another CWBRN that also is ignored since X3 early makes console view take up an extra inch in height of screen - the EQ plot does not entirely go away if I uncheck it, you get some blob covering other things in CV. I tried to gain some extra screen space - but this is ignored in favour of things nobody asked for(in all honestly like forkol said, somebody sure did, but how many). This is - just me - having to deal with these for me annoying issues. CWBRN are incemented by a thousand each month - userbase trying to communicate back to Cakewalk things that they are bothered by, and maybe even stops the show for them. This means that all these Cakewalk customers have each spent hours to troubleshoot these issues and report this - and too many are ignored. Think about it - one thousand users each month report stuff - maybe an hour each to troubleshoot enough to make a report. Many of these are surely double reports of different users having another approach to the same issue. I know the drill, ran my own software business for 16 years. But looking at them all as a whole usually point you towards where the problem is. A lot of wasted manhours in userbase this - so think about that when making priorities. There were other threads about what forum members felt Cakewalk should focus on. One guy made a list of 5-6 topics, and this was the most quoted topic in that thread, having stability and fixes as top of list. So again, just emphasizing this about fixes...I can understand the urge for devs to list new implemented features, but why not pick those asked/voted for first, rather than make up features? I see good things about startup page, as I said, to get organized - but where do news list come from? How many of us are really online with running Sonar? I connect purely to check for updates with CCC and do installs - nothing else - for convenience. I don't want any software like Adobe Flash, Acrobat or Windows updates check things over network while audio is running(some plugins with built in store also do network accesses as started). Attacks from outside to firewall that also may use cpu from time to time. After updates/installs I reboot computer with router turned off - no network activity that can jeapardize audio. That part about news on start page seems to me more be of Cakewalk interest spreading info about this and that.I may be out on a lim here - but just an assumption that many do like I do. Maybe put news part in CCC instead - then surely your are online. Just feedback from one user running sneak Artist version - but thinking of going to Pro if Cakewalk is going the way I go - forward not sideways.
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Beepster
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Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/19 14:22:04
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Okay... so I don't have time to read through everything that's been posted since last night but in regards to feature requests being implemented...
Things that I have SPECIFICALLY requested to be fixed or added to the program...
All that crazy Control Bar stuff was EXACTLY what I had been asking for since I first installed Sonar X1... and they added way more useful stuff that I hadn't even conceived of to the CB.
There was a very specific bug in X3 that made the TV jump away from an in focus lane up to the parent track that was a major problem for me. Fixed in Platinum.
There is a bunch of other stuff too that I've pointed out here on the forum and magically it appeared in X3 or Platinum. Thing is it does take time to code and implement these things and those request were made quite some time ago and were NOT made under the new FR forum. Just general ramblings and threads before the site redesign.
So I figure at that rate since the new FR sub has only been around, what 8 months now?, we'll start seeing some of the more popular request happening... well probably very soon.
Seriously there is a ton of other stuff I've blathered on about that has been implemented but my mind is elsewhere. They are listening but these things can't happen overnight. If they just slam it into the program without properly testing it all everyone would scream bloody murder that things are broken and the number ONE request has been for stability/bug fixes. That seems to be happening more than anything... despite the few blork outs... and even then they release patches for those flubs very quickly.
Something has changed since X2 days. IDK what it is exactly but I no longer feel like I'm out in the wilderness screaming at clouds. It's a good thing.
Peace.
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dwardzala
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Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/19 16:46:57
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☄ Helpfulby charlyg 2015/06/19 16:55:51
Teksonik
Anderton
That shows maybe sometimes it's a good idea for Cakewalk to go in the direction of what they would like to see in the program - everyone there uses it,
Sorry, got to call you on this one. Everyone out here uses Sonar as well. To place a higher value on the opinion of those who work for CW than on the opinions of those who purchased the software is.....well I think you can take it from there.......
I think this a bit short sighted. Those who write the software understand the full capabilities of some of the new things that they are implementing - an example is using ARA to expand Audio to MIDI capabilities. The people who write the software are experts in its use and understand far more of what's going on under the hood and can leverage that knowledge into new feature ideas a lot better than most of us.
DaveMain Studio- Core i5 @2.67GHz, 16Gb Ram, (2) 500Gb HDs, (1) 360 Gb HD MotU Ultralite AVB, Axiom 49 Midi Controller, Akai MPD18 Midi Controller Win10 x64 Home Sonar 2017.06 Platinum (and X3e, X2c, X1d) Mobile Studio - Sager NP8677 (i7-6700HQ @2.67MHz, 16G Ram, 250G SSD, 1T HD) M-Box Mini v. 2 Win 10 x64 Home Sonar 2016.10 Platinum Check out my original music: https://soundcloud.com/d-wardzala/sets/d-wardzala-original-music
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