Positively Charged
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
- Total Posts : 744
- Joined: 2008/03/11 20:13:35
- Status: offline
Why is it always $50 per month?
Oh, forgive me, $49.99. You'd think we'd get a gold-dipped ribbon mic or at least a tin plectrum for our trouble. Or at least usable emoticons on this forum using standardized character sequences. :( There, I did it just to be a grouchy rebel; sue me. So am I reading this right...to go from X3 Producer to Platinum, I would pay an upgrade fee of $149 one-time, get 12 months of so-called "maintenance", then pay $500 per year ($600 if I can't afford it all at once) starting in month 13?
|
charlyg
Max Output Level: -72 dBFS
- Total Posts : 950
- Joined: 2015/02/27 22:10:47
- Location: West Hills, CA
- Status: offline
Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/17 22:50:27
(permalink)
I don't think it works quite like that, but I could be wrong.I paid one time annual upgrade price of $99 to go from X3 to Pro. Less then one month later I upgraded to Plat at $29.99 per month. So that's ~$460. I could have just paid the $49.99 per month but that would have been more expensive. It may have to do with timing, I'm not sure.
|
scook
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 24146
- Joined: 2005/07/27 13:43:57
- Location: TX
- Status: offline
Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/17 22:52:22
(permalink)
Positively Charged So am I reading this right...to go from X3 Producer to Platinum, I would pay an upgrade fee of $149 one-time, get 12 months of so-called "maintenance", then pay $500 per year ($600 if I can't afford it all at once) starting in month 13?
No. The upgrade is a one time fee of $149 or 12 consecutive monthly payments of $14.99. This also includes a 12 month membership. You can read about the membership here http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/Membership. At the end of your membership, if you wish to renew your membership the currently publish renewal price is $199 a year or $19.99 a month . The price matrix is here http://www.cakewalk.com/P...SONAR/Versions#pricing
post edited by scook - 2015/06/17 23:09:26
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/17 23:27:34
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby RSMCGUITAR 2015/06/18 01:24:32
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/17 23:34:11
(permalink)
Positively Charged get 12 months of so-called "maintenance"
It's not called "maintenance," it's called fixes, features, enhancements, and content. Scroll to the end of this page to see what was added to Platinum's initial release in January. Here are the eZines detailing what has been added in each of the past four releases. Braintree CambridgeDorchesterEverett
|
Positively Charged
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
- Total Posts : 744
- Joined: 2008/03/11 20:13:35
- Status: offline
Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/17 23:59:12
(permalink)
Okay, thank you for the clarification. $200 every 12 months or $16.66 is double what I currently pay, which is about $149 every 18 months, or about $8.30-ish. So the $50 price increase scheme, combined with the new "DRM enforced 12-month cycle" effectively socks me with a 100% price increase on an annual or monthly basis. So it's not high-finance and it surely won't break me. But the trend is not going in the most friendly direction for me the customer. I will think this over; thanks again for your help. EDIT: Hi Craig. Yes, I am thinking of it as a subscription, because that's what it is to me. X dollars monthly or X * 12 dollars minus some discount if paid annually. When it comes to personal finance, how is that not a subscription? Edit 2: Thank you also for those links. There is a lot more included than I initially thought there would be. Nice to know. I will factor this in my consideration.
post edited by Positively Charged - 2015/06/18 00:13:01
|
charlyg
Max Output Level: -72 dBFS
- Total Posts : 950
- Joined: 2015/02/27 22:10:47
- Location: West Hills, CA
- Status: offline
Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 00:06:44
(permalink)
Well, my answer is after the annual fee is paid, by either method, you own the software just as if you bought an upgrade. You do not have to pay any more to keep that "level", just as the old way.
post edited by charlyg - 2015/06/18 00:13:06
|
mudgel
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 12010
- Joined: 2004/08/13 00:56:05
- Location: Linton Victoria (Near Ballarat)
- Status: offline
Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 00:09:59
(permalink)
Actually you may choose to update every 18 months but if you look at Cakewalk's release cycle since the beginning of Sonar in 2001 there's been a new version on average very 12 months. On occasion the upgrade price was $99 like from 8 to 8.5 not considered a full update.
Since my time with Sonar the lowest update was the $99 already mentioned, then $129, $149 and from next year it will be $199.
Considering that during every release cycle you now not only get bug fixes as usual, but they are fixed more quickly, immediate release of new features when they are ready rather than waiting and a much more engaged team of developers with the user community here on the forum.
I think considering that the $199 doesn't cut in until next year, that it's a much better value by comparison than at Pro Tools. Just try and get support there like you can here. Sure things aren't perfect but there sure is an acknowledgement of that here with a sense of commitment not often seen.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
|
Positively Charged
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
- Total Posts : 744
- Joined: 2008/03/11 20:13:35
- Status: offline
Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 00:20:04
(permalink)
charlygWell, my answer is after the annual fee is paid, by either method, you own the software just as if you bought an upgrade. You do not have to pay any more to keep that "level", just as the old way. Yes, I understand that. In fact, without that key point, I would avoid this the same as I avoid all paid Adobe software, and as I even strive to reduce my dependence on "free" Adobe software. I won't even buy Lightroom for fear that I will become dependent on it and then it'll go subscription-only. By making the only deal available that shuts off the customer if he/she can't pay and then not offering a non-subscription option, Adobe has damaged our relationship so badly that now I suspect them on everything. Hopefully Cakewalk will understand the danger of damaging the customer relationship and therefore will never be tempted to go down that path.
|
Positively Charged
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
- Total Posts : 744
- Joined: 2008/03/11 20:13:35
- Status: offline
Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 00:25:19
(permalink)
mudgel ...Considering that during every release cycle you now not only get bug fixes as usual, but they are fixed more quickly, immediate release of new features when they are ready rather than waiting and a much more engaged team of developers with the user community here on the forum. I understand the dev process, and I have my doubts as to the indefinite sustainability of this pace. Remember, Native Instruments tried it years ago with "Komplete Care" and had to stop when they could no longer think of new stuff to add to Battery and (then) FM7. I think considering that the $199 doesn't cut in until next year, that it's a much better value by comparison than at Pro Tools. Just try and get support there like you can here. Sure things aren't perfect but there sure is an acknowledgement of that here with a sense of commitment not often seen.
I agree. It's probably worth the first $149 and then at the very least deserves annual assessment thereafter.
|
RSMCGUITAR
Max Output Level: -64 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1318
- Joined: 2014/12/27 02:33:15
- Location: Toronto
- Status: offline
Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 01:21:00
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby SF_Green 2015/06/18 04:44:31
Wow... talk about late to the party...
You might consider a less accusatory tone when asking questions.
|
joyof60
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 283
- Joined: 2013/10/08 09:13:28
- Location: Louisiana
- Status: offline
Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 03:03:13
(permalink)
I, myself, have always been 'fashionably' late to most party's, but I have a non accusatory question, as the new subscription took me a bit by surprise and had to do some searching to try and find out what it was about. I did a one time upgrade price from X3 to professional. So I'm good for 12 months, I think. Afterward if I miss a couple of months of 'fixed' and upgrades, then decide to beat the keys again and want to upgrade. Do I pay just the current month or is the payment going to be a cumulative payment of the months that I missed? And if I purchase a one time subscription in June, is that good till next June, or only through February?
Joyof60 Sonar Plat., Windows 10 Pro (64bit), Custom Build, AMD Rizen 5 @3.95GHz, Assorted HDDs, 32 Gb G.Skill RAM. Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Roland FA08, coupla guitars and misc. mics, cans, and gadgetry.
|
slartabartfast
Max Output Level: -22.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5289
- Joined: 2005/10/30 01:38:34
- Status: offline
Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 03:59:25
(permalink)
Positively Charged So am I reading this right...to go from X3 Producer to Platinum, I would pay an upgrade fee of $149 one-time, get 12 months of so-called "maintenance", then pay $500 per year ($600 if I can't afford it all at once) starting in month 13?
Where are you reading that? i would assume that if you pay for a Producer to Platinum upgrade for a year now, at the end of the year you would be paying for a Platinum to Platinum pricing to continue the next year. Typically the price to upgrade includes a premium for the added features, but Cakewalk has always offered lower prices for the next version to customers who already have the same model. I expect that 500/600 is the list price for a new user not a discounted price for current users. If Cakewalk charges 600.00 for current users of Platinum to continue next year they will lose a boatload of customers. That said there is no guarantee that Cakewalk will offer any product at any particular price in the future.
post edited by slartabartfast - 2015/06/18 04:07:04
|
Zargg
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10666
- Joined: 2014/09/28 04:20:14
- Location: Norway
- Status: offline
Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 04:15:55
(permalink)
Hi. I believe that you will get what is released from the moment you subscribe again, and forwards. The content released between subscriptions, will only be for members at release time. I think this "new way" Cakewalk is taking is for the better. More and more fixes and addons have come from people here on this forum, which (in my mind) is a sign of Cakewalk listening to their users.
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
|
joyof60
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 283
- Joined: 2013/10/08 09:13:28
- Location: Louisiana
- Status: offline
Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 05:58:39
(permalink)
Yes, I don't have a problem with how they are doing it, I don't think. I just haven't found any concrete answers or even a very informative explanation of exactly how the pricing works other than the pricing list. I have a very old copy (CD) of producer from another machine that I scrapped years and years ago, would that copy qualify for a producer to platinum discount? (I still have serials etc). I'm not complaining just looking for answers. I see refrences being made to 'ezines' but I haven't found a way to subscribe or if I'm even allowed with only the professional product. Again, it is difficult to express a 'tone' in text, and I am indeed not complaining, just wanting to learn more, in order to move forward wisely.
Joyof60 Sonar Plat., Windows 10 Pro (64bit), Custom Build, AMD Rizen 5 @3.95GHz, Assorted HDDs, 32 Gb G.Skill RAM. Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Roland FA08, coupla guitars and misc. mics, cans, and gadgetry.
|
Positively Charged
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
- Total Posts : 744
- Joined: 2008/03/11 20:13:35
- Status: offline
Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 08:12:04
(permalink)
RSMCGUITAR Wow... talk about late to the party...
You might consider a less accusatory tone when asking questions. If you're accusing me as the OP, I respectfully but firmly reject your accusation. It's my thread, and therefore it's my party. :) I've been to this rodeo before, with software, non-software products, and services. In my experience, every time so far, the relationship has been better for the subscription provider than they have been for the customer. I think it's important to express my experiences and observations as strongly as possible. Craig's post does show that there are a lot of fixes and updates so far, so that's good.
|
charlyg
Max Output Level: -72 dBFS
- Total Posts : 950
- Joined: 2015/02/27 22:10:47
- Location: West Hills, CA
- Status: offline
Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 08:12:08
(permalink)
I dunno, when I look at the pricing, I leave with no questions. Seems to cover everything, including the answer to your question.
post edited by charlyg - 2015/06/18 08:18:28
|
Positively Charged
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
- Total Posts : 744
- Joined: 2008/03/11 20:13:35
- Status: offline
Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 08:15:31
(permalink)
Zargg71 Hi. I believe that you will get what is released from the moment you subscribe again, and forwards. The content released between subscriptions, will only be for members at release time. Whatever the policy is, I would like to see it specifically stated in writing. I think this "new way" Cakewalk is taking is for the better. More and more fixes and addons have come from people here on this forum, which (in my mind) is a sign of Cakewalk listening to their users. I doubt the current pace is indefinitely sustainable. For now, I'll try to be "cautiously optimistic".
|
Positively Charged
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
- Total Posts : 744
- Joined: 2008/03/11 20:13:35
- Status: offline
Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 08:16:50
(permalink)
slartabartfast
Positively Charged So am I reading this right...to go from X3 Producer to Platinum, I would pay an upgrade fee of $149 one-time, get 12 months of so-called "maintenance", then pay $500 per year ($600 if I can't afford it all at once) starting in month 13?
Where are you reading that? ...
The question was answered, thank you.
|
charlyg
Max Output Level: -72 dBFS
- Total Posts : 950
- Joined: 2015/02/27 22:10:47
- Location: West Hills, CA
- Status: offline
Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 08:23:08
(permalink)
What makes you think it is unsustainable, and what research do you have that causes you to lean in that direction?Are you assuming they just went off half cocked and said let's try this? The annual fee,whichever way collected, allows them to expand staff, train etc, without worrying about the cash flow(it is now a steady stream) needed to sustain. It is always coming in. The old method caused spits and starts for 3 months with each new release. As they perfect this method, it could turn into a juggernaut. I see way more ways for this to exceed expectations than to fall short. But like you, it is no more than an opinion and only based on my observation for whatever that is worth.,
|
Mesh
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 27360
- Joined: 2009/11/27 14:08:08
- Location: Online right here!
- Status: offline
Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 08:24:45
(permalink)
As n early adopter, I upgraded to Plat for $126 (plus change).....so far, I'm very happy with the stability/updates/bug fixes and excellent content included. I'll most likely do the same upgrade next year.
Platinum Gaming DAW: AsRock Z77 Overclock FormulaI7 3770k @ 4.5GHz : 16GB RAM G.Skill Ripjaws X 250GB OS SSD : 3TB HDD : 1TB Sample HDDWin 10 Pro x 64 : NH-D14 CPU Cooler HIS IceQ 2GB HD 7870Focusrite Scarlett 2i4The_Forum_Monkeys
|
Zargg
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10666
- Joined: 2014/09/28 04:20:14
- Location: Norway
- Status: offline
Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 08:45:52
(permalink)
Positively Charged
Zargg71 Hi. I believe that you will get what is released from the moment you subscribe again, and forwards. The content released between subscriptions, will only be for members at release time. Whatever the policy is, I would like to see it specifically stated in writing.
I think this "new way" Cakewalk is taking is for the better. More and more fixes and addons have come from people here on this forum, which (in my mind) is a sign of Cakewalk listening to their users. I doubt the current pace is indefinitely sustainable. For now, I'll try to be "cautiously optimistic".
I try to look at the positive side of things. There are others with much more knowledge than me, who will likely answer you question, given time. And who knows what the future holds
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 09:55:53
(permalink)
Positively Charged Okay, thank you for the clarification. $200 every 12 months or $16.66 is double what I currently pay, which is about $149 every 18 months, or about $8.30-ish. $199 is the "list price." There have been several upgrade offers at $149 (assuming you pay for the upgrade up front instead of over 12 months), and I suspect that there will continue to be specials in the years ahead. But also, your math is wrong because the 18-month figure is inaccurate. IIRC correctly SONAR was introduced in 2001, and 14 years later, there have been 13 major releases (if you include the 8.5 release). That's very close to a 12-month average. So given waiting on the upgrade for a special, and the frequency of updates, the price difference is nowhere near a 100% increase. But the trend is not going in the most friendly direction for me the customer. Well, think about it for a second. You're getting bug fixes on an accelerated basis, new features, new content, a monthly eZine instead of just release notes, and the learning curve for new features is spread over 12 months, making it much easier to assimilate new features. Also, instead of having all update bugs released at once upon a major release with fixes that occur over the next several months, looking back at the history of monthly releases so far, bugs introduced with a new feature are typically gone by the next release, or in some cases, even sooner. And, customers can now choose to pay over 12 months if they're tight for cash. All of this strikes me as a much friendlier direction for the consumer. Yes, I am thinking of it as a subscription, because that's what it is to me. X dollars monthly or X * 12 dollars minus some discount if paid annually. When it comes to personal finance, how is that not a subscription? Because the software industry uses the word "subscription" to apply to software rental, not ownership. For example, PC World defines subscription software as software that becomes invalid (e.g., expires) if you don't continue paying, like the Adobe and Avid models. With SONAR, you get to keep what you buy, and it doesn't expire. If you choose not to upgrade, SONAR continues to work exactly the same as it did before. In that respect, SONAR's plan is like a print magazine subscription, where you get to keep back issues even if you don't renew your subscription.
|
charlyg
Max Output Level: -72 dBFS
- Total Posts : 950
- Joined: 2015/02/27 22:10:47
- Location: West Hills, CA
- Status: offline
Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 10:08:57
(permalink)
Anderton In that respect, SONAR's plan is like a print magazine subscription, where you get to keep back issues even if you don't renew your subscription. Great analogy...
|
FCCfirstclass
Max Output Level: -71 dBFS
- Total Posts : 969
- Joined: 2003/11/15 15:02:42
- Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
- Status: offline
Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 10:37:18
(permalink)
Win 10 Pro x64, 32Gb DDR3 ram, Sonar Platinum, Cubase 9.5, Mackie MCU Pro, Cakewalk VS 100, Roland Octa-Capture, A 800 Pro, Carver M-1.5t amp & C4000 pre amp, various mics, drums and brass instruments. And away we go!
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 14:56:18
(permalink)
Positively Charged I understand the dev process, and I have my doubts as to the indefinite sustainability of this pace.
Cakewalk has been doing monthly updates to SONAR since 2001. The only difference now is they don't wait a year to release them all. Given that they've been able to sustain that pace for 14 years, I don't see any reason for your doubts regarding the future. When the program started, many people in these very forums said Cakewalk wouldn't be able to do monthly updates. So far they've been wrong. When Gibson bought Cakewalk in late 2013, quite a few people proclaimed Cakewalk wouldn't last a year. They were wrong. I wouldn't bet against Cakewalk...
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 15:01:17
(permalink)
Positively Charged I've been to this rodeo before, with software, non-software products, and services. In my experience, every time so far, the relationship has been better for the subscription provider than they have been for the customer.
Which is why those sneaky Cakewalk people  figured they could get a competitive advantage over other companies by coming up with a plan that was customer-centric rather than company-centric. Their devilishly clever marketing scam is intended to create happy customers. Happy customers = renewals at the end of the year = attracting more new users (which is already happening) = forcing other companies to play catch-up and Cakewalk continuing to be a market leader. Another prominent software company is about to ditch yearly updates and go to point releases every two months...don't know if they've announced yet. Stay tuned. I totally understand that in today's selfie/greed-is-good/I'm-all-that-matters environment, it's easy to assume a company has some secret underhanded agenda. Well, I guess it is, if you consider trying to increase market share by creating more happy customers secret and underhanded...it's actually the way lots of companies used to be run, but somehow, that concept seems to have been forgotten over the years (although there are exceptions, like Sweetwater, and look where it's gotten them!).
|
bapu
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 86000
- Joined: 2006/11/25 21:23:28
- Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
- Status: offline
Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 15:27:06
(permalink)
Positively Charged Hi Craig. Yes, I am thinking of it as a subscription, because that's what it is to me.
Well I think letter are numbers to me so I'l just say. 89738349037458720309283728754327864908240850963.9
|
lfm
Max Output Level: -53 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2216
- Joined: 2005/01/24 05:35:33
- Location: Sweden
- Status: offline
Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 15:33:16
(permalink)
Positively Charged
I think this "new way" Cakewalk is taking is for the better. More and more fixes and addons have come from people here on this forum, which (in my mind) is a sign of Cakewalk listening to their users. I doubt the current pace is indefinitely sustainable. For now, I'll try to be "cautiously optimistic".
If you get less optimistic - you can always stay away not renewing membership - this will tell Cakewalk somebody is not entirely happy here. So you stay away until there is substantial news that is of value for you - and no penalty to re-enter. And meanwhile you own your Sonar so far and can continue to use it. There is a healthy dialog in this scheme. - I like what you are doing, I'm renewing membership - Not much happended last year, I stay away for a while waiting for something to happend... Compare that to Avid ProTools support plan subscription which is - renew annualy or buy full new license if to come back to ProTools. Your old license is frozen indefinately. Or rent ProTools monthly, which stops working as you stop paying.
|
Jesse G
Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4282
- Joined: 2004/04/14 01:43:43
- Status: offline
Re: Why is it always $50 per month?
2015/06/18 15:34:12
(permalink)
Whoo hoooo!, Well spoken Craig Anderton, Well Spoken!!! 
Peace,Jesse G. A fisher of men <>< ==============================Cakewalk and I are going places together! Cakewalk By Bandlab, Windows 10 Pro- 64 bit, Gigabyte GA-Z97X-SLI, Intel Core i5-4460 Haswell Processor, Crucial Ballistix 32 GB Ram, PNY GeForce GTX 750, Roland Octa-Capture, Mackie Big Knob, Mackie Universal Controller (MCU), KRK V4's, KRK Rockit 6, Korg TR-61 Workstation, M-Audio Code 49 MIDI keyboard controller.[/
|