Beepster
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Re:Why no limiter in X2 ?
2013/01/10 10:18:02
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This is something I've been meaning to look into myself because I'm not quite sure what the best way to go about it is.
My problems:
1) As OP mentioned when browsing patches with DimPro I've had X2 crash but right before it does it makes a horrific noise that could potentially cause damage.
2) When scrolling up or down in the console or PC sometimes the cursor hooks into the faders/knobs and cranks something out of safe ranges.
Now I'm not sure a limiter is going to do much for a crash but it's worth a shot. I also think there might be a setting somewhere to change mouse behavior so that scrolling does not adjust parameters but I have not found it yet.
Basically I want to have the limiter on the Master bus but I do NOT want it to affect the mix in ANY way other than if there is a massive volume spike it gets limited. I'm worried about coloring the mix or having the limiter make me falsely believe I have reigned in any volume spikes. I want to be able to turn the limiter off at the end of mixing and have the exact same results as I did with it on.
Make sense?
Now if one of you smart fellows could recommend the best Limiter included with X2 to use (I upgraded from the X1 Production Suite so I think I got an extra limiter with that) and how to set it up so it only kicks in when something goes horribly awry (I don't want it to start limiting even if my levels are really loud... I want it to kick in when things get PAINFULLY loud) I would be ever so grateful.
Thanks.
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clintmartin
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Re:Why no limiter in X2 ?
2013/01/10 10:25:03
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jm24
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Re:Why no limiter in X2 ?
2013/01/10 11:57:58
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I use a MASTER MIX bus for all final effects.
This feeds a MAIN OUT bus which sends the signal to the speakers.
The MAIN OUT buss has panipulator, meters, analysers, protection limiter (Set way high),...
AND:::: when bouncing the mix to tracks, from the MASTER MIX bus, the new tracks go to the MAIN OUT bus, bypassing all mix effects.
So I am hearing the bounce as it was mixed, at the same volume, and can use the tools to analyse the mix.
I do not need to remember to disable effects, adjust volume, etc....
And the MAIN OUT is the first bus so it is way quick to adjust speaker volume without affecting the MASTER MIX levels.
And I do not have to have the hardware buses showing.
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SteveGriffiths
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Re:Why no limiter in X2 ?
2013/01/10 13:54:32
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jm24
I use a MASTER MIX bus for all final effects.
This feeds a MAIN OUT bus which sends the signal to the speakers.
The MAIN OUT buss has panipulator, meters, analysers, protection limiter (Set way high),...
AND:::: when bouncing the mix to tracks, from the MASTER MIX bus, the new tracks go to the MAIN OUT bus, bypassing all mix effects.
So I am hearing the bounce as it was mixed, at the same volume, and can use the tools to analyse the mix.
I do not need to remember to disable effects, adjust volume, etc....
And the MAIN OUT is the first bus so it is way quick to adjust speaker volume without affecting the MASTER MIX levels.
And I do not have to have the hardware buses showing.
Like that idea - makes a fair bit of sense, and would also let me add a little room EQ if needed without coloring the mix - nice post thanks :) Grif
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Bub 
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Re:Why no limiter in X2 ?
2013/01/10 14:18:51
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Melda's Limiter is the best free one I've ever heard. The problem with Boost11 is, it adds a bit of high end to the mix. There's a video on u-toob about it that Cakewalk put out several years ago. It's not designed to be transparent. Melda is free, 64bit, supports Windows 8, and VST3. It's part of a huge suite of free plug-in's. I use them all the time now. They've all but replaced the Sonitus Suite for me. Link On a side note .... if you are concerned about volume spikes ... is there any way to set up a gate on the master bus or as a side chain to kick in at a certain db level? Maybe set your projects up with a 'Pre-Master' bus and put a Gate on it, then have that bus go to your 'Master'? I don't know if it would work, never tried something like that. Just brainstorming.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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Beepster
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Re:Why no limiter in X2 ?
2013/01/10 15:11:18
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hmm... I don't think I'm yet smart enough for this. I was kind of hoping to just toss something on the master that cuts things at say +6dB that adds absolutely nothing to the sound.
:-/
Oh well. These things don't happen often. I'll just have to be careful.
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Why no limiter in X2 ?
2013/01/10 15:12:57
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Any compressor is a limiter when the ratio is 10:1 or greater. So it does have a few limiters included in it. The ratio setting the only difference between compressing and limiting. Yea Baby!!!!
Cj
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scook
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Re:Why no limiter in X2 ?
2013/01/10 15:21:54
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Beep - try the Sonitus compressor with the limiter button engaged and no compression setting in the master bus fx bin.
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Marcus Curtis
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Re:Why no limiter in X2 ?
2013/01/10 15:25:04
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Bub
Melda's Limiter is the best free one I've ever heard. The problem with Boost11 is, it adds a bit of high end to the mix. There's a video on u-toob about it that Cakewalk put out several years ago. It's not designed to be transparent.
Melda is free, 64bit, supports Windows 8, and VST3. It's part of a huge suite of free plug-in's. I use them all the time now. They've all but replaced the Sonitus Suite for me.
Link
On a side note .... if you are concerned about volume spikes ... is there any way to set up a gate on the master bus or as a side chain to kick in at a certain db level? Maybe set your projects up with a 'Pre-Master' bus and put a Gate on it, then have that bus go to your 'Master'? I don't know if it would work, never tried something like that. Just brainstorming.
WOW the entire free effects package looks great. just read through everything in the Melda free effects bundle. This is turning into a really good thread Thanks for sharing this Bub!
http://www.marcuscurtismusic.com/ Windows 10 ultimate, Sonar Platinum, AMD Phenom 2 x6 1075T processor 3.00 GHz, (6 cores) 8 gigs of Ram, Audio interfaces=VS-100, Pod X3 live pro, Boss GT-100, Boss GP10 Midi Controllers=Edirol PCR 800, roland GR-55. Ozone 7, Podfarm, Th2 Full Version, Melda, True Pianos Full Version, and a whole bunch of free VST plugins which can be found through my site.
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Beepster
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Re:Why no limiter in X2 ?
2013/01/10 15:27:48
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Okay. Thanks, scook. That other stuff being mentioned seemed overly complicated.
That just reminded me to go check for a disable scrolling on faders option too now that I have my DAW running.
Hope you're having a good day.
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John
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Re:Why no limiter in X2 ?
2013/01/10 15:27:50
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If you buy it that free bundle will offer more abilities and options. I bought it and it didn't cost much either.
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scook
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Re:Why no limiter in X2 ?
2013/01/10 15:33:05
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Yes, the requested fee for the Free MeldaProductions plugin suite is reasonable and turns on very useful (essential for me) GUI features. Beep - yes, busy soaking up Groove 3 videos. Hope you have recovered from the move. FYI, the Sonitus compressor does add ~1.5ms of latency for the limiter function.
post edited by scook - 2013/01/10 15:41:31
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Beepster
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Re:Why no limiter in X2 ?
2013/01/10 15:48:22
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@scook... That's cool. I'm gonna get to those after I finish reading the manual and spend an entire month watching as many as I can a day while taking notes. First really useful gift from the Content Club for me.
I am reasonably settled in (thanks for asking) and the place is nice enough but they screwed me on some repairs so I gotta get up their asses about it. I also still have a ton of stuff to do myself but I'm relatively happy for a change. Just chilling out for a bit before I go on my next rampage.
Cheers, bro.
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Beepster
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Re:Why no limiter in X2 ?
2013/01/10 15:50:50
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I'm at around 7ms for tracking and 12ms for mixing as it is so that shouldn't be too much of a problem. Glad I didn't cheap out on my computer parts.
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Bub
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Re:Why no limiter in X2 ?
2013/01/10 17:26:26
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scook
Yes, the requested fee for the Free MeldaProductions plugin suite is reasonable and turns on very useful (essential for me) GUI features.
It says you can unlock individual ones, and it wasn't clear if the $36 USD fee was for each plug-in, or the entire suite. Does the fee unlock the entire suite or is it $36 USD per plug-in?
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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Swiller
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Re:Why no limiter in X2 ?
2013/01/10 17:31:40
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kjaerhus classic limiter and loudmax are both dead easy and well worth a free download. They are 32 bit i think, but sound fine to my ears.
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scook
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Re:Why no limiter in X2 ?
2013/01/10 17:36:16
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Bub - the fee is for the whole suite, which I am sure you will agree is a very reasonable deal.
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Marcus Curtis
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Re:Why no limiter in X2 ?
2013/01/10 17:39:29
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Bub
scook
Yes, the requested fee for the Free MeldaProductions plugin suite is reasonable and turns on very useful (essential for me) GUI features.
It says you can unlock individual ones, and it wasn't clear if the $36 USD fee was for each plug-in, or the entire suite.
Does the fee unlock the entire suite or is it $36 USD per plug-in?
I am at the end of the buy page. it says MfreeEffectsBundle 30.00 euros. So it is 36.00 for the whole bundle. That is cheap. I don't know what extra features you get. but the whole thing looks very good for my wallet. To bad i am broke right now. but i will try the free ones without the extra features for now.
http://www.marcuscurtismusic.com/ Windows 10 ultimate, Sonar Platinum, AMD Phenom 2 x6 1075T processor 3.00 GHz, (6 cores) 8 gigs of Ram, Audio interfaces=VS-100, Pod X3 live pro, Boss GT-100, Boss GP10 Midi Controllers=Edirol PCR 800, roland GR-55. Ozone 7, Podfarm, Th2 Full Version, Melda, True Pianos Full Version, and a whole bunch of free VST plugins which can be found through my site.
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Bub
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Re:Why no limiter in X2 ?
2013/01/10 17:51:33
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Man, $36 for the entire suite is amazing. Honestly, I wouldn't have been surprised at all if they were $36 each.
I'm in the same boat right now Marcus. Sad times when we can't even scrounge up $36 bucks. :( But I am getting by just fine with the free bundle. It's more than I would ever dream of asking for, for free.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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bobguitkillerleft
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Re:Why no limiter in X2 ?
2013/01/10 20:59:21
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Bub
Man, $36 for the entire suite is amazing. Honestly, I wouldn't have been surprised at all if they were $36 each.
I'm in the same boat right now Marcus. Sad times when we can't even scrounge up $36 bucks. :( But I am getting by just fine with the free bundle. It's more than I would ever dream of asking for, for free.
2nd that,Meldas stuff is amazing for free,I had no idea the $36 was for the lot either,very cool,thanks all. Bob
https://soundcloud.com/rks26https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hitmen Lenovo W540 Factoryrefurb SONAR PLATINUM,Ozone 7 N.I. KA6 Komplete 9 SSD4 Platinum Epi L/H LP Custom Headstock broken twice and fixed.Gibson L/H Les Paul 2010 Wine Red Studio stupid Right Hand Vol.Tone for Left Hand?LH84Ibanez RS135 gen.FloydRose JB Marshall 100w 2203 4x25w Celestion Green backs "You are what you is"-Frank Zappa "But I'm gonna wave my freak flag high"-Jimi Hendrix
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Anderton
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Re:Why no limiter in X2 ?
2013/01/10 22:09:51
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This was covered in my Advanced Workshop video (ahem), but forget about using the Sonitus compressor as a bus limiter. The best limiter that comes free with Sonar is the Sonitus Multiband compressor. A multiband compressor is much better on program material than a standard compressor, as there are less artifacts (e.g., you don't have issues like the kick compressing the highs).
To use it, on the Multiband Compressor UI, click the Common tab and click Limit. Raise the output above 0.0 until you get the desired amount of limiting (within reason, of course). Multiband will clamp the output so it stays below 0.0dB.
However, if you plan to turn your track over to a mastering engineer, add NO processing to the master bus. When people do that to me, I act like the picky person in the restaurant who sends the steak back, and ask for a version with the bus plug-ins disabled.
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scook
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Re:Why no limiter in X2 ?
2013/01/10 22:55:19
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Thanks, do recall the bit in the video now that you mention it. I did not think that it would matter which Sonitus plug was used if there was no compression going on and the only intent for the limiter was to clamp down on unexpected noise (ex. like accidentally dialing up a Pentagon patch using the Valley simulator) during tracking.
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bobguitkillerleft
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Re:Why no limiter in X2 ?
2013/01/10 23:11:57
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Hey Mr Anderton,I just went back and watched "maximising loudness",which makes "it"seem very easy,with the "Sonitus Multiband",which is cool,but I was wondering how Waves L3 LL seems to go waay higher than 6db before "noticable" distortion/artifacts?[of course everyones opinion,on whats acceptable/noticable,is going to be different].
My L3 LL Multimaximiser "lives" on the "Master Buss",along with Meldas "analyzer"[after of course]as I have only the means to Master on my own,or at least attempt it my own.
Bob
https://soundcloud.com/rks26https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hitmen Lenovo W540 Factoryrefurb SONAR PLATINUM,Ozone 7 N.I. KA6 Komplete 9 SSD4 Platinum Epi L/H LP Custom Headstock broken twice and fixed.Gibson L/H Les Paul 2010 Wine Red Studio stupid Right Hand Vol.Tone for Left Hand?LH84Ibanez RS135 gen.FloydRose JB Marshall 100w 2203 4x25w Celestion Green backs "You are what you is"-Frank Zappa "But I'm gonna wave my freak flag high"-Jimi Hendrix
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Anderton
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Re:Why no limiter in X2 ?
2013/01/11 02:01:40
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scook
Thanks, do recall the bit in the video now that you mention it. I did not think that it would matter which Sonitus plug was used if there was no compression going on and the only intent for the limiter was to clamp down on unexpected noise (ex. like accidentally dialing up a Pentagon patch using the Valley simulator) during tracking.
If it clamps in only one band, only that band is affected. Even for the scenario you're describing, multiband will be better than single-band.
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Anderton
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Re:Why no limiter in X2 ?
2013/01/11 02:06:53
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bobguitkillerleft
Hey Mr Anderton,I just went back and watched "maximising loudness",which makes "it"seem very easy,with the "Sonitus Multiband",which is cool,but I was wondering how Waves L3 LL seems to go waay higher than 6db before "noticable" distortion/artifacts?[of course everyones opinion,on whats acceptable/noticable,is going to be different].
My L3 LL Multimaximiser "lives" on the "Master Buss",along with Meldas "analyzer"[after of course]as I have only the means to Master on my own,or at least attempt it my own.
Bob
The Waves L3 LL is a much newer design, by the people who basically wrote the recipe on maximization, and is optimized specifically for that task (it also may have more lookahead, but I'm not sure). Also note that the 6dB figure I gave is for material that's already close to peaking up to the maximum headroom. With lower average signal levels, you'll be able to bring the Sonitus up more than 6dB. But I promise that if I become king, all limiters designed to go on master buses will not be able to add more than 6dB of maximization  . There will be much rejoicing throughout the land, once people figure out they can just turn their volume control higher if they want it louder.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Why no limiter in X2 ?
2013/01/11 04:28:47
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I'll vote for you Craig - where do I sign?
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jb101
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Re:Why no limiter in X2 ?
2013/01/11 04:32:35
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Bristol_Jonesey
I'll vote for you Craig - where do I sign?
Me too. "Craig for King" has a nice ring to it..
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Why no limiter in X2 ?
2013/01/11 04:36:58
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CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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jb101
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Re:Why no limiter in X2 ?
2013/01/11 04:40:00
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King Craig of Sonar?
King Craig of DAW?
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LJB
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Re:Why no limiter in X2 ?
2013/01/11 06:07:17
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Do yourself a favour and invest in the Concrete Limiter.
Ludwig Bouwer, One Big Room Studios.
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Check out my work at www.onebigroom.co.za
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