Too Sensible
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Re:Why should I stop complaining?
2010/12/17 14:23:31
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Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]
All comments taken to heart Mike and yes there are areas of SONAR and ways in which we can do better. I certainly won't argue that. And true it's still about education and we've taken steps to making that a fundamental part of what we do with SONAR U, etc.
As we are discussing updates to X1 (and our way to X2), I think a fair amount of focus will certainly go into these areas. I know that workflow for certain kinds of professionals, including those working with "rhythm section + diva" ( ) are to be looked at, just as UI, Tools, etc were looked at heavily in this release. The next major version won't be a program with 4 buttons and bunch of loops - I promise.  Shoring up other areas of the program are part of the discussion and the forum is of course a valuable part of our plans.
But we do have to take into account many types of music production as it's a wide wide world out there as you no doubt realize.
So check out X1a and then the next patch and then whatever comes after. I suspect things will only get better for those feeling uncomfortable currently.
Brandon - Thanks, please let the folks back at the office know that shoring up other areas of the program (i.e. bugs) shouldn't be "part" of the conversation, it should "be" the conversation until properly addressed. Could you imagine the dialogue between Cakewalk and the forum if the spector of "bugs" didn't constantly hang over the forum? Good times. :) Happy holidays!
post edited by Too Sensible - 2010/12/17 14:25:07
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ba_midi
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Re:Why should I stop complaining?
2010/12/17 14:32:48
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But we do have to take into account many types of music production as it's a wide wide world out there as you no doubt realize. Please try not to leave out the techno/electronica/synth/multi-faceted but in the box crowd 
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vladasyn
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Re:Why should I stop complaining?
2010/12/17 14:52:02
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] ``````````````````````````I've talked to so many producers and songwriters over the years who felt SONAR's overwhelming UI made them feel stifled and distracted and hid the wealth of features underneath. We've made an attempt to bring everything to the surface and make it better organized. `````````````````````````````````````````` The older versions Sonar had few too many buttons, and most of us customized our tool bars on a first day of using it. If you were intended to unclutter, why not just make it customizable and let people to decide what to use. I know you already heard about my issue with Undo/Redo button, but I still wondering, how someone can choose eliminate this particular button to unclutter the interface. I am not ready to make a list of things that got worse, but one of them is Split. Now you have to click all over the clip before it actually splits. At one time it refused to split until I restarted. Another time it would not do it, until I click in certain place certain way. That seizers icon is only appears in certain position and you cannot split with one click: it takes several clicks till you find where to click so it works. Also the rewind buttons on a transport. I will dare to ask who uses them, but ok- may be people do use them- I do not. But what I do use is “Top” button. Why is it got small? Getting project to the Top to start playback is very very common operation- why the button got so small- it easy to miss, while rewind buttons so big? Why is it so hard to get to Input/Output on a channel? It used to be visible. I need to be able to SEE what inputs I have selected. In order to see it in X1, we have to expand the track to make it enormously-large, because all the Volume, Pan and some other parameter controls are getting on a way. And then- we were asking and asking for dedicated Delete button, but never got it. Not all people using keyboard for shortcut. The Delete function takes 4 clicks to get in to Edit menu. Can we just have one button for delete and another for Redo/Undo? That would really help. Oh, and some happy colors for ladies.
post edited by vladasyn - 2010/12/17 14:57:58
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djjhart@aol.com
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Re:Why should I stop complaining?
2010/12/17 15:01:10
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The Delete function takes 4 clicks to get in to Edit menu. Can we just have one button for delete and another for Redo/Undo? That would really help. Oh, and some happy colors for ladies. Go to edit/preferences Scroll down to key binding , Scroll down a little to Edit|delete choose add to an empty key. For the color ,In the track view, which ever track is highlighted go to the inspector and switch the color of the clip under the tracks Tab.
post edited by djjhart@aol.com - 2010/12/17 15:02:37
Computer - Intel Q9550, Intel BX48bt2 MB, W8 64 bit. 8 gb Ram, SSD Hardware - Tascam Fw1884 Control surface only, Ni S49 Komplete Kontroll,Roland Quad Capture, Ni Machine,Kore, Focusrite A/D converter, Blue Mic, Roland Gaia, Akai Mpk49, Yamaha HS80 Monitors.Software - Sonar Platinum , Vengeance VPS bundle,Sugar Bytes Effectrix, Turnado, NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Dune, Rob Papen Blade , Delay, Punch Evolved. http://soundcloud.com/johnhartson/tracks http://www.youtube.com/user/jhart1313
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nighthadfallen
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Re:Why should I stop complaining?
2010/12/17 15:09:58
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"Please try not to leave out the techno/electronica/synth/multi-faceted but in the box crowd."
I'm right there with you ba_midi. I love the step-sequencer, for example. I use it to program drums and trigger my Vermona MkIII. I would like to see it with a little more color, but other than that it's great.
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Bub 
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Re:Why should I stop complaining?
2010/12/17 15:23:19
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mike_mccue
Black backgrounds? .....Really?
High contrast lettering right next to No contrast lettering. .....Really?
What's funny is, I've seen several complaints about how X1 looks. One long time forum member stated it actually caused him physical pain to look at the screen. Funny thing about that is, one of the things that I hate about 8.5, is the way it looked. I can barely see anything. I always have to adjust my monitor excessively bright and close the windows in my music room, and then all the icon's are so small on my 1920 x 1080 monitor, and if I change the resolution, it goes out of native mode and everything is fuzzy and I still can't see it. I haven't get my boxed version yet (Where is it Sweetwater? Damn it! You said I'd have it in my hands by today!), but from the screenshots I've seen, I think I'm going to love it. I have to say I'm a little tired of hearing, "I'm a pro I'm a pro" and people expecting to be catered to. Us home studio folks, and hobbyists paid the same as the pro's for the product. The reality is, if you own your own studio, it's a business expense that can be written off, the rest of us it, it comes at a total loss of funds. Not singling you out Mike, it's just that this came up and it was an 'on topic' way for me to say what I've been thinking. I think a lot of us grew up in the analog days and I don't think we'll ever be totally happy with any DAW.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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ba_midi
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Re:Why should I stop complaining?
2010/12/17 15:28:44
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nighthadfallen
"Please try not to leave out the techno/electronica/synth/multi-faceted but in the box crowd."
I'm right there with you ba_midi. I love the step-sequencer, for example. I use it to program drums and trigger my Vermona MkIII. I would like to see it with a little more color, but other than that it's great.
Yes, the SS is good (probably one of the best) -but I really mean more about the tools like filters, side-chaining, etc. Especially the Matrix (which I'd like to use but don't due to its current limitations). There's more I'd like to see - and forunately I have some of the best 3rd party stuff to use ... but if SOME of these tools were inline/included (ala LIVE) I'd be a happier puppy just because it would speed things up and also show that the electronic musician isn't being left too far behind.
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Positively Charged
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Re:Why should I stop complaining?
2010/12/17 15:39:58
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Bub
What's funny is, I've seen several complaints about how X1 looks. One long time forum member stated it actually caused him physical pain to look at the screen.
Funny thing about that is, one of the things that I hate about 8.5, is the way it looked. I can barely see anything. I always have to adjust my monitor excessively bright and close the windows in my music room, and then all the icon's are so small on my 1920 x 1080 monitor, and if I change the resolution, it goes out of native mode and everything is fuzzy and I still can't see it.
I haven't get my boxed version yet (Where is it Sweetwater? Damn it! You said I'd have it in my hands by today!), but from the screenshots I've seen, I think I'm going to love it.
I have to say I'm a little tired of hearing, "I'm a pro I'm a pro" and people expecting to be catered to. Us home studio folks, and hobbyists paid the same as the pro's for the product. The reality is, if you own your own studio, it's a business expense that can be written off, the rest of us it, it comes at a total loss of funds.
Not singling you out Mike, it's just that this came up and it was an 'on topic' way for me to say what I've been thinking.
I think a lot of us grew up in the analog days and I don't think we'll ever be totally happy with any DAW.
Yup, I agree with a lot of Bub's comments. I despise the confusing morass of tiny icons scattered all about. That would be forgivable except that much of the (8.5 and prior) UI's letters and characters are way too small to see at 1920 X 1080 as well as at 1600 X 1200 and 1024 X 1280. Big monitors which sit across a control desk can still be small to see with 40-something eyes and small letters and pictures. Changing monitor resolution away from native DOES make it a lot worse, and you also have the issue of feeling like you're using your mouse like a tiny sewing needle to try to poke and pick at the small screen elements. All software makers should keep this in mind as they design and code their products. There should be more features for resizing various elements on the screen so that all customers can use the software regardless of their visual needs. Start coding software so that the user can customize it for use by people who have coke-bottle glasses and four thumbs and then I suspect the ergonomics will begin to improve.
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Freddie H
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Re:Why should I stop complaining?
2010/12/17 15:44:56
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Of course it doesn't work and sound right! It never do when its S_H_I_T behind the wheels! I just finish for today mixing with SONAR X1 Pro Channels in my studio. What can I say, it sounds 10 000 000 dollar in my studio. Sweet interface, I want even more advance graphic in the future. Minority report, ring a bell? Black background not white like in Cubase and Pro Tools... Have you not get it why many of PRO's want dark GUI-modern like SONAR, LOGIC, Samplitude, DP, STUDIO ONE and dark work background? Try it and you see the beauty with it. Or are LOGIC and Samplitude not "pro" either like SONAR? Right... I'm happy with SONAR X1. Things can be better but SONAR X1 are here to stay.. Regards Freddie
post edited by Freddie H - 2010/12/17 15:46:55
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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ba_midi
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Re:Why should I stop complaining?
2010/12/17 15:53:48
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Black background not white like in Cubase and Pro Tools... Would you like to see my screen with all the "frozen" tracks in all white and black? UGLY. This is one area that colors really could make a huge diff. If you're only doing audio - fine, you get lots of color options on the clips/pane. If you're doing mostly softsynths/samplers the screen becomes a sea of black and white with NO way to change it (in prior versions as well). Drives me a bit nuts frankly.
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cake2010
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Re:Why should I stop complaining?
2010/12/17 15:57:00
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Freddie H
What do you all think you can do in PRO TOOLS HD that you can't do in other DAWs? I'm very curious?
Burn money?
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KyRo
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Re:Why should I stop complaining?
2010/12/17 15:59:10
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Bub
I haven't get my boxed version yet (Where is it Sweetwater? Damn it! You said I'd have it in my hands by today!)
Got mine today from Sweetwater, Bub. Gonna be installing in a bit. But if you got the upgrade, no box, sry ><
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Freddie H
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Freddie H
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Re:Why should I stop complaining?
2010/12/17 16:05:41
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ba_midi
Black background not white like in Cubase and Pro Tools...
Would you like to see my screen with all the "frozen" tracks in all white and black?
UGLY.
This is one area that colors really could make a huge diff.
If you're only doing audio - fine, you get lots of color options on the clips/pane.
If you're doing mostly softsynths/samplers the screen becomes a sea of black and white with NO way to change it (in prior versions as well).
Drives me a bit nuts frankly.
Why don't you change the color of FREEZE-tracks? I have done that already in my SONAR X1 COLOR Skin. I have change also other visibility things in example Console view. Bus tracks has blue name, Main has red name. I can send you my COLOR skin if you want of Freddie SONAR X1-skin. PM your mail address. Best Regards Freddie
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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ba_midi
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Re:Why should I stop complaining?
2010/12/17 16:09:08
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Freddie H
ba_midi
Black background not white like in Cubase and Pro Tools...
Would you like to see my screen with all the "frozen" tracks in all white and black?
UGLY.
This is one area that colors really could make a huge diff.
If you're only doing audio - fine, you get lots of color options on the clips/pane.
If you're doing mostly softsynths/samplers the screen becomes a sea of black and white with NO way to change it (in prior versions as well).
Drives me a bit nuts frankly.
Why don't you change the color of FREEZE-tracks? I have done that already in my SONAR X1 COLOR Skin.
I have change also other visibility things in example Console view. Bus tracks has blue name, Main has red name.
I can send you my COLOR skin if you want of Freddie SONAR X1-skin. PM your mail address.
Best Regards
Freddie
Please do tell me exactly how you changed the color of frozen tracks? You can do it here -- I don't need your scheme (I have my own already and don't want to mess it up).
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Freddie H
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Re:Why should I stop complaining?
2010/12/17 16:13:20
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Inside first COLOR "All colors"...
Scroll down slowly...you will find it ....--------> Frozen track Color.
Change it...
Regards
Freddie
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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Bub
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Re:Why should I stop complaining?
2010/12/17 16:24:15
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dimelives1
Bub
I haven't get my boxed version yet (Where is it Sweetwater? Damn it! You said I'd have it in my hands by today!)
Got mine today from Sweetwater, Bub. Gonna be installing in a bit. But if you got the upgrade, no box, sry ><
Can you please clarify what "no box" means. Did you just get the DVD's and nothing else? Not a big deal if that's the case, but that's not what they told me when I ordered it, they said it came in the white box, with quick start guide, activation number, and DVD's.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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chrisharbin
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Re:Why should I stop complaining?
2010/12/17 16:26:27
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I cannot tell if this is a joke or not, but it makes for an interesting read
i7 860/MSI mobo/8GB ram/win7x64ultimate/X2/profire 610/oxygen 61/running 48k currently.
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ba_midi
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Re:Why should I stop complaining?
2010/12/17 16:27:00
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Freddie H
Inside first COLOR "All colors"...
Scroll down slowly...you will find it ....--------> Frozen track Color.
Change it...
Regards
Freddie
I had a feeling that's what you meant. Nope... that's not the problem. The problem is it is a SINGLE global color - as opposed to how audio tracks inherit DIFFERENT colors so that EACH track is distinguishable. That is simply not possible at this time. So sure I can make some global swap of the current "stuck" color but that's all. So it doesn't help one bit, sorry Freddie.
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Bub
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Re:Why should I stop complaining?
2010/12/17 16:38:13
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chrisharbin
I cannot tell if this is a joke or not, but it makes for an interesting read
Laugh it up fuzzball!
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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Supercomposer
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Re:Why should I stop complaining?
2010/12/17 16:41:36
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you guys have WAY too much time...
ME is the Supercomposer, and all your base are belong to us (Yes, I mean Germany) System Spec: CPU 2x X7560 Xeon 16-Core, 48 GIG Ram Kingston, Intel with Supermicro Workstation MP Boards, RME HDSPe, PNY Quadro 6000
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chrisharbin
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Re:Why should I stop complaining?
2010/12/17 16:44:57
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Bub
chrisharbin
I cannot tell if this is a joke or not, but it makes for an interesting read
Laugh it up fuzzball!
haha!
i7 860/MSI mobo/8GB ram/win7x64ultimate/X2/profire 610/oxygen 61/running 48k currently.
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chrisharbin
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Re:Why should I stop complaining?
2010/12/17 16:46:07
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Supercomposer
you guys have WAY too much time...
Not really, I just have a better time machine.
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Bub
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Re:Why should I stop complaining?
2010/12/17 16:50:21
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Supercomposer
you guys have WAY too much time...
It's not by choice in my case. 
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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ba_midi
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Re:Why should I stop complaining?
2010/12/17 17:23:16
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Bub
Supercomposer
you guys have WAY too much time...
It's not by choice in my case.
Ya gotta stop licking your hat ... that's NOT snow there :P
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jazzimprov
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Re:Why should I stop complaining?
2010/12/17 17:28:19
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Just got X1 from GC here in VA I don't see what the issue is with the interface. Nice and clean I thnk it is a step up from Studio One's interface and is not at all oversimplified. Geat Job ---! Looking forward to spending some time to actually get to know the program before commenting prematurely! Sure got some whiners in the house. Looks like some people like to trash the house before they move out :-)
post edited by jazzimprov - 2010/12/17 17:52:31
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Why should I stop complaining?
2010/12/17 17:29:51
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Now you have to click all over the clip before it actually splits. At one time it refused to split until I restarted. Another time it would not do it, until I click in certain place certain way. That seizers icon is only appears in certain position and you cannot split with one click: it takes several clicks till you find where to click so it works Don't understand what the problem is. In the version I downloaded you press F8 (maybe twice - it cycles) and click the clip. The clip splits. I think the biggest mistake CW made was leaving Sonar in the name, leads to expectations of an upgrade from 8.5. I'm treating it like a new program, taking time to learn it and so far I'm loving it..........
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amdrecording
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Re:Why should I stop complaining?
2010/12/17 17:37:51
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+1. I consider myself a "pro", and though I'm struggling with the new software a bit, I trust that it is worth it. I can already see at least a dozen changes for the better, even though they may have seemed annoying to start off with.
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ba_midi
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Re:Why should I stop complaining?
2010/12/17 17:38:29
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Sure got some whiners in the house.
Looks like some people like to trash the house before they move out :-)
I'm personally offended by those who call others whiners. They are entitled to complain about things they need or aren't functioning well for them (if they do so with civility). Let's not teach each other to be sheep. Teach civility, sure. But it really irks me when people don't feel for the other guy/gal.
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DeveryH
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Re:Why should I stop complaining?
2010/12/17 17:42:02
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Why should you stop complaining?
I don't know the answer to the question. I would like to see you spend a little more time with X1, preferably more than a day, before you write it off though.
It's funny, as an observer I took note of the s h i t storm that began on the 8th of December, 2010. As each day goes by, the noise of that storm is diminishing. Why is this? Maybe it's because you can't "teach an old dog new tricks". Us Sonar users were used to OUR Sonar being a certain way. When it was completely changed, a lot of people took a while to come around. But I am noticing more people are coming around. Why? Because they spend more and more time with it. And what happens when you spend time with it? It grows on you.
So, should you stop complaining? Absolutely not. But don't write it off completely until you've spent more time behind the wheel.
Fair enough?
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