Serious_Noize!
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Why you shouldn't trust DROP BOX or online storage sites for your master cakewalk bundles.
I lost a bunch of master tracks a while back with a hard drive crash, and I had a backup plan with this online site that just decided to shut down. As a secondary plan I also had a few master tracks saved on the site DROP BOX.
I hadn't been on DROP BOX's site for a while. So they changed my password AUTOMATICALLY. Which is all good and well, but MY EMAIL ADDRESS CHANGED DURING THAT TIME PERIOD. I contacted their support and give them ALL the proper credentials, even with my PREVIOUS EMAIL address and password and they agreed that IT WALL ALL CORRECT. But they wouldn't allow me access to my files because I was unable to accept an EMAIL to the ADDRESS CONFIRMATION TO THE EMAIL ADDRESS I NO LONGER USED WITH THAT ACCOUNT. I was ALSO told that it is their policy to CHANGE the password every few months for security and they would not allow me access to my master tracks after my hard drive crash even though I knew my old EMAIL address and password WHICH THEY CHANGED THE PASSWORD! I could no longer ACCESS MY OLD EMAIL account because I cancelled it. Why did I cancel that email account? That's not the point. I had the credentials and should have been able to get my files.
Either way, just thought I would warn EVERYONE that drop box's policy on this even when talking with their techs and them agreeing that I KNEW THE PASSWORD & email address and not allowing me access to my files is something to really think about when using their service.
What ever the case. I use One Drive for my Mixdown files, which so far is great, but it's too limited so I don't store Master tracks or cakewalk bundle files on it. I back them up on my new External hard drive I purchased. It just really ticks me off that I have multiple master tracks on a site that want allow me to access them when I know the email and password but no longer have that email address but the thing is THEY AUTOMATICALLY CHANGED THE PASSWORD so I have no way of verifying anything. It's a STUPID AUTO FILE grab policy in my opinion.
I also recently just upgraded to a new PC XPS 8700 and got a Sandisk 2TB backup Hard drive which I am using for master track backups.
The so called : "CLOUD BACKUP" failed me badly!!!!!!! And that is my entire point when it comes to master tracks and songs.
It's not like I can't play the same stuff again and probably do better, but it's the fact that I trusted a well known site to take care of my data and they more or less just blocked me for some reason or another from my master tracks like they did.
Something to think about people. That's my entire point. But here's the thing, we don't all have golden slippers and endless amounts of money and we do what we can and sometimes are forced to put trust in others because of our situations. So don't call me STUPID. I'm just poor and tried to do the best I could at the time, and I feel like DROP BOX just SCREWED ME OVER and also I had ONE SONGS MUSIC STOLEN by a WELL KNOWN ARTIST, so go figure.................
I will no LONGER USE DROP BOX!!!!!!!!!! EVER!!!!!!!!!!
Just wanted to mention my TRUE STORY for others. Nothing I can do about any of it now except move on and remember not to make the same mistake again................
Good day everyone.........
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Jeff Evans
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Re: Why you shouldn't trust DROP BOX or online storage sites for your master cakewalk bund
2016/06/17 21:02:00
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You really do not need any form of cloud storage in order to back up easily. I do this sort of work for a living and what I have ever done is simply backup the folder I am currently working on at the end of major development days onto a second hard drive. Then once a project is fully in bed as they say I just burn a DVD or two of the whole thing, catalogue that and put that in my archive.
You don't really know who or what they are doing to your precious files either. Some of my clients would not be happy knowing their material is up in a cloud somewhere either. It is over rated. Also it takes time to upload all that stuff too where as dragging a folder onto a second drive is pretty fast.
If something only exists in one place digitally you are asking for trouble. But the second place does not have to be the cloud either.
Thanks for the info though. I have never been a fan of Drop Box anyway. Google drive seems to work fine for sending large files here and there though.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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BobF
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Re: Why you shouldn't trust DROP BOX or online storage sites for your master cakewalk bund
2016/06/17 21:25:33
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☄ Helpfulby Serious_Noize! 2016/06/18 10:19:24
Bummer experience.
I've been using dropbox for a long time without changing my password. I also use box.com.
Neither for backups though. I use my own cloud via NAS on my own network.
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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sharke
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Re: Why you shouldn't trust DROP BOX or online storage sites for your master cakewalk bund
2016/06/18 00:04:34
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☄ Helpfulby BobF 2016/06/18 10:19:34
The whole point of sending a confirmation email to your email address is so that they have an extra layer of protection for your benefit. They are basically saying hey, if you don't access Dropbox for a while, we're going to reset your password and then require an extra security step to let you back in. As such, merely having your old Dropbox password and email address is not considered to be sufficient credentials. Responding to a verification email sent to that email address would confirm to them satisfactorily that you are the true owner of this account.
Given their security policy, it is your responsibility to maintain ownership of the email address the account is linked to. They cannot simply bypass a layer of security just because you ask them to. Otherwise what would be the point of having this two-stage verification? I hate to be brutal, and I'm not trying to win any popularity contests here, but Dropbox didn't screw you over, you screwed yourself over by not making yourself aware of their verification policy and by abandoning the email address in question. You saved your master tracks on Dropbox because you wanted them to be safe, but you screwed up by cancelling the email address that Dropbox account was linked to. When abandoning that account for whatever reason, it was your responsibility to consider whether or not there was anything important associated with it. As soon as you clicked "confirm" on the cancellation, you were clicking "confirm" to losing everything associated with that address unless you took prior steps to secure it. Which would have meant logging into Dropbox, changing your credentials and responding to the verification email they sent you.
I see no reason to blame Dropbox here, they were just sticking to their security guns and did nothing wrong. Passwords get hacked, accounts get stolen, it happens all the time. I had a Hotmail account hacked and stolen by Nigerian scammers a few years ago. Companies are a lot more serious about online security these days, and so should you be. Don't presume that things you upload to the cloud are going to be there for you forever even if you lose some of your security credentials. If it were possible to simply call them up and plead for access you didn't have sufficient credentials for then it just makes a mockery of security. Personally I think this throws a good light on Dropbox because it shows they are serious about the security of your data. I totally understand the emotion involved in losing personal data and for that reason I understand that you're not going to accept my views here, but whatever, they are what they are.
With that being said, I think cloud backups are an essential part of data backup these days. Doesn't matter how many external drives or DVD's you save to, if they're all in the same location then you risk losing them in a fire, flood or burglary. A cloud backup gives you an additional level of backup security. I would seriously consider using Crashplan if you can spring for the $60/year cost ($5 per month). It works flawlessly, you get a version history (excellent for rolling back on projects you've screwed up) and you can also encrypt your data with a key.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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jamesg1213
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Re: Why you shouldn't trust DROP BOX or online storage sites for your master cakewalk bund
2016/06/18 03:43:07
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☄ Helpfulby Serious_Noize! 2016/06/18 10:20:05
Got to agree with this ^^^^^.
If you changed your email address it was your responsibility to update any accounts associated with it, simple as that really.
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jamesg1213
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Re: Why you shouldn't trust DROP BOX or online storage sites for your master cakewalk bund
2016/06/18 03:48:14
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As a footnote, I wouldn't entirely trust bundle files for back-ups. I went through some back-up DVDs from about 5 years ago recently, and only about half the bundle files would open successfully.
Jyemz Thrombold's Patented Brisk Weather Pantaloonettes with Inclementometer
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Glyn Barnes
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Re: Why you shouldn't trust DROP BOX or online storage sites for your master cakewalk bund
2016/06/18 04:33:09
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I am considering using cloud storage, BUT only as a third line defence after my local USB drives and my NAS drive which is in another building.
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Serious_Noize!
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Re: Why you shouldn't trust DROP BOX or online storage sites for your master cakewalk bund
2016/06/18 10:01:31
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sharke
The whole point of sending a confirmation email to your email address is so that they have an extra layer of protection for your benefit. They are basically saying hey, if you don't access Dropbox for a while, we're going to reset your password and then require an extra security step to let you back in. As such, merely having your old Dropbox password and email address is not considered to be sufficient credentials. Responding to a verification email sent to that email address would confirm to them satisfactorily that you are the true owner of this account.
Given their security policy, it is your responsibility to maintain ownership of the email address the account is linked to. They cannot simply bypass a layer of security just because you ask them to. Otherwise what would be the point of having this two-stage verification? I hate to be brutal, and I'm not trying to win any popularity contests here, but Dropbox didn't screw you over, you screwed yourself over by not making yourself aware of their verification policy and by abandoning the email address in question. You saved your master tracks on Dropbox because you wanted them to be safe, but you screwed up by cancelling the email address that Dropbox account was linked to. When abandoning that account for whatever reason, it was your responsibility to consider whether or not there was anything important associated with it. As soon as you clicked "confirm" on the cancellation, you were clicking "confirm" to losing everything associated with that address unless you took prior steps to secure it. Which would have meant logging into Dropbox, changing your credentials and responding to the verification email they sent you.
I see no reason to blame Dropbox here, they were just sticking to their security guns and did nothing wrong. Passwords get hacked, accounts get stolen, it happens all the time. I had a Hotmail account hacked and stolen by Nigerian scammers a few years ago. Companies are a lot more serious about online security these days, and so should you be. Don't presume that things you upload to the cloud are going to be there for you forever even if you lose some of your security credentials. If it were possible to simply call them up and plead for access you didn't have sufficient credentials for then it just makes a mockery of security. Personally I think this throws a good light on Dropbox because it shows they are serious about the security of your data. I totally understand the emotion involved in losing personal data and for that reason I understand that you're not going to accept my views here, but whatever, they are what they are.
With that being said, I think cloud backups are an essential part of data backup these days. Doesn't matter how many external drives or DVD's you save to, if they're all in the same location then you risk losing them in a fire, flood or burglary. A cloud backup gives you an additional level of backup security. I would seriously consider using Crashplan if you can spring for the $60/year cost ($5 per month). It works flawlessly, you get a version history (excellent for rolling back on projects you've screwed up) and you can also encrypt your data with a key.
You do have a point. And it's my fault for not being more cautious. But I think people should be made more aware of their automatic password policy change. I understand why they change the password. Every so often I have sites even with me knowing the email and using the same email address & password send a confirmation to my phone before allowing me in, perhaps dropbox has that now, but it does me no good at this point. I'm going to look into Crashplan. I use Onedrive to keep my music and mixdowns on, so far so good for that purpose, but I am using the free Onedrive, microsoft seems to change their storage space size for free users every few years here lately it seems. Thanks for the information.
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BobF
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Re: Why you shouldn't trust DROP BOX or online storage sites for your master cakewalk bund
2016/06/18 10:01:39
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Even if my uplink was greater than 750Kb, I prefer to not use clouds. I have fireboxes ... That may change if I ever have access to real broadband though
Good post james
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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Serious_Noize!
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Re: Why you shouldn't trust DROP BOX or online storage sites for your master cakewalk bund
2016/06/18 10:11:16
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jamesg1213
As a footnote, I wouldn't entirely trust bundle files for back-ups. I went through some back-up DVDs from about 5 years ago recently, and only about half the bundle files would open successfully.
I've been considering getting a blue ray burner for my PC and saving all my master tracks to a few disc and keeping 2-3 copies in a few different places along with saving them to my external hard drive. I'm to the point now, I don't wanna lose any more masters. I just wonder how reliable blue ray disc are.
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bitflipper
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Re: Why you shouldn't trust DROP BOX or online storage sites for your master cakewalk bund
2016/06/18 11:01:54
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☄ Helpfulby Serious_Noize! 2016/06/18 21:20:22
I have mixed feelings about cloud storage.
I would never use it as my primary backup. This thread describes just one of many nightmare scenarios in which your files can be lost, damaged or compromised. Critical data, IMO, should never be entrusted to a third party, except as a backup for your backups. You're trusting unknown people to guard your files, on an unknown server at an unknown location with unknown security, backup and disaster-recovery mechanisms. Trusting strangers to be both competent and diligent, and trusting that they'll remain in business. What could go wrong?
But as many of you know, I recently lost every SONAR project I've ever created. More than 12 years' worth of work, hundreds of projects, and not all of it was my own material. I'd just been offered an opportunity to remix an album I'd previously produced for a friend, but that will never happen now.
I had faithfully backed everything up, motivated by a healthy fear of hard drive failure and my own propensity for f*ckups - all while failing to consider theft as a threat. Had those files been backed up on the cloud or even on DVDs hauled off to a storage locker, I'd have them now.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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jamesg1213
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Re: Why you shouldn't trust DROP BOX or online storage sites for your master cakewalk bund
2016/06/18 12:00:01
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Serious_Noize!
jamesg1213
As a footnote, I wouldn't entirely trust bundle files for back-ups. I went through some back-up DVDs from about 5 years ago recently, and only about half the bundle files would open successfully.
I've been considering getting a blue ray burner for my PC and saving all my master tracks to a few disc and keeping 2-3 copies in a few different places along with saving them to my external hard drive. I'm to the point now, I don't wanna lose any more masters. I just wonder how reliable blue ray disc are.
Just to underline the point - the DVDs are fine, but CWB (bundle) files, apparently can become corrupted/unusable over time. It's been mentioned on this forum many times over the years.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Why you shouldn't trust DROP BOX or online storage sites for your master cakewalk bund
2016/06/18 12:52:32
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☄ Helpfulby Serious_Noize! 2016/06/18 21:20:48
I've had the same password on dropbox for years now. And I never delete old e mail addresses for this very reason.
I've had to ask for password resets I hadn't used for a long time and they often are in my long forgotten Yahoo account. Costs nothing to keep those accounts open. I store nothing there, no address book and delete most emails after dealing with it.
For me cloud storage is great for documents and a few pictures. Nice to be able to open them on any computer anywhere.
But music files are too big as I think I only get 10 Gigs at the most from Dropbox. I like the automatic storage of screenshots as well. I see that One Drive does the same but haven't used it yet.
I have studio masters and projects going back to 1980's. I transferred the old Tape's and DAT's over to digital but I still have most of the originals too.
At this point in time those files are probably copied over and over on 10 or more hard drives. Many just sitting in a box.
I also store files off site at my in laws house 300 miles away.
I wouldn't use CD or DVD..burned disks are short lived.
Probably USB devices will be around for a long time yet. Soon my older hard drives will have nothing to connect too when my last XP PC dies and my old external drive boxes too. I still have my 6 Gig HD from my first DAW and I believe it will spin up.
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: Why you shouldn't trust DROP BOX or online storage sites for your master cakewalk bund
2016/06/18 14:45:58
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☄ Helpfulby Serious_Noize! 2016/06/18 21:20:33
Couldn't agree more about bundle files.
Once I'd upgraded from Guitar Tracks and Home Studio to SONAR, I opened all my older .wrk and .bun files and saved them (and/or renamed them) and ensured to check the Copy all audio with project option (as well as any .cwp and .cwb than needed updating thus).
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: Why you shouldn't trust DROP BOX or online storage sites for your master cakewalk bund
2016/06/18 14:51:34
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Cactus Music
I've had the same password on dropbox for years now. And I never delete old e mail addresses for this very reason.
I've had to ask for password resets I hadn't used for a long time and they often are in my long forgotten Yahoo account. Costs nothing to keep those accounts open. I store nothing there, no address book and delete most emails after dealing with it.
^^^^^ This I have a couple of Gmail and Hotmail accounts I don't use any more but I've kept them because, as you say, there's no reason to delete them. And just in case anything 'important' gets sent to them, I have them set to forward any incoming mail to my Yahoo mail. Simples.
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Jeff Evans
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Re: Why you shouldn't trust DROP BOX or online storage sites for your master cakewalk bund
2016/06/18 16:52:10
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You still don't need the cloud. It is not a good way to go at all. All you need is a small safe hidden in your studio. Put the backup drives in there. Even if your house burnt down and was destroyed the safe and its contents would still be there. In Dave's case they either would not have been able to open it or take it away either. Another smart thing to do is put a heavy duty deadlock on your studio and when you go out you lock it up. I was broken into in 1997 and although yes they took other stuff from the house they could not get into the studio and did not have the means to do it. Most people who are stealing will not have the means to get in through a lock like this. Also a solid door goes a long way as well. So nothing was touched in there at least. Alarm systems also can scare off some people as well.
post edited by Jeff Evans - 2016/06/18 18:32:47
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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craigb
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Re: Why you shouldn't trust DROP BOX or online storage sites for your master cakewalk bund
2016/06/18 17:36:39
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☄ Helpfulby Serious_Noize! 2016/06/18 21:52:01
This thread is reminding me of how I lost the vast majority of my work. I put everything on this new technology from Panasonic called a CD/PD (for Phase Digital). Supposed to be good for over 30 years. My hard drive crashed and... The CD/PD wasn't readable (plus none of the media recovery firms even had a reader). 'Tis why you only hear those few songs I keep posting... Dumb me. Oh well. 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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Serious_Noize!
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Re: Why you shouldn't trust DROP BOX or online storage sites for your master cakewalk bund
2016/06/18 20:49:43
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SteveStrummerUK
Couldn't agree more about bundle files.
Once I'd upgraded from Guitar Tracks and Home Studio to SONAR, I opened all my older .wrk and .bun files and saved them (and/or renamed them) and ensured to check the Copy all audio with project option (as well as any .cwp and .cwb than needed updating thus).
Thanks, I see what your saying, Compatibility upgrades with the newer versions of the software on Bundle files. I first started using Cakewalk with Music Creator 4, then I upgraded to 5, and Music creator 7 and then purchased Sonar Artist and upgraded recently to Sonar Pro. Which I am very happy with Sonar Pro. Sounds like a version error with the bundle files. I dunno though. Compatibility on all offered platforms either previous or new should be a must for the software in my opinion, it creates trust that upgrading means not losing settings and such. I see what you are saying and that is : "When upgrading to a newer version, your older version aren't working correctly". That's a big deal and something Cakewalk should address. That's good information to know though and the explanation you give is what I was looking for as to why BUNDLE saves aren't so safe. It's a big think though I think, because code would have to be written on so many levels. Not impossible though, just have a standard "Which as a cakewalk user I thought was already there ya know". Maybe a simple patch would fix it all for Sonar users. As for the older or limited version users they wouldn't have that problem. Only the Upgrading users would have that problem I guess. Just a little speculation and a few thoughts. But thank you for pointing out why Bundle files aren't always reliable. Makes sense. And I hope I understood what you were saying. Thanks Again!
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Serious_Noize!
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Re: Why you shouldn't trust DROP BOX or online storage sites for your master cakewalk bund
2016/06/18 21:02:26
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bitflipper
I have mixed feelings about cloud storage.
I would never use it as my primary backup. This thread describes just one of many nightmare scenarios in which your files can be lost, damaged or compromised. Critical data, IMO, should never be entrusted to a third party, except as a backup for your backups. You're trusting unknown people to guard your files, on an unknown server at an unknown location with unknown security, backup and disaster-recovery mechanisms. Trusting strangers to be both competent and diligent, and trusting that they'll remain in business. What could go wrong?
But as many of you know, I recently lost every SONAR project I've ever created. More than 12 years' worth of work, hundreds of projects, and not all of it was my own material. I'd just been offered an opportunity to remix an album I'd previously produced for a friend, but that will never happen now.
I had faithfully backed everything up, motivated by a healthy fear of hard drive failure and my own propensity for f*ckups - all while failing to consider theft as a threat. Had those files been backed up on the cloud or even on DVDs hauled off to a storage locker, I'd have them now.
It was a complete Irony of bad things happening in my case Bitflipper. Here's the thing, I dropped and cancelled that email because I had a very bad breakup with a crazy woman which is now my ex, so I decided to cancel the email because I was getting some bad rants everyday over the breakup, not just from her but from others or her friends. So I cancelled that email and it was no longer active, meaning trying to send an email to that address would respond as a NO REPLY. Thing is "Drop Box" when they changed the password automatically they should have sent a notice to the EMAIL address and asked for a confirmation, and if they tried to send a notice to that email address then they should have noticed that because the email was incapable of receiving emails that it was cancelled and should have not changed the password and accepted my previous information with my previous email address and password, at least that's the way I see it, but they feel that since the email was cancelled that I am no longer a user of their service I guess. It was all my fault for not being more careful with my master tracks in the end. I think you are 100% right Bit, for not trusting your tracks in the cloud. I am also sorry to hear about your equipment being stolen, man that pisses me off just to think about because I have had things stolen from me also in the past. I hope you get it all back and they throw the people who stole your stuff in jail!!! I hope that if they catch them that they make who they are available online so it can be shared!!!! Either way, a few software programs that I purchased after getting a new PC I can no longer use because of simply not having my old email. My mistake I guess for not "Turning the LIGHT OFF" so to speak. But at the same time, it really changes your trust factor when it comes to using anything online or offline.
post edited by Serious_Noize! - 2016/06/18 21:24:23
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Serious_Noize!
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Re: Why you shouldn't trust DROP BOX or online storage sites for your master cakewalk bund
2016/06/18 21:34:03
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craigb
This thread is reminding me of how I lost the vast majority of my work. I put everything on this new technology from Panasonic called a CD/PD (for Phase Digital). Supposed to be good for over 30 years. My hard drive crashed and... The CD/PD wasn't readable (plus none of the media recovery firms even had a reader). 'Tis why you only hear those few songs I keep posting... Dumb me. Oh well.
I wonder how reliable Blue Ray disc are for storage. ? I have no idea. I have made most all the mistakes mentioned in this thread and can only say Thank you to everyone who replies here for the great advice. Thanks again!
post edited by Serious_Noize! - 2016/06/19 11:19:58
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sharke
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Re: Why you shouldn't trust DROP BOX or online storage sites for your master cakewalk bund
2016/06/19 00:19:05
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Jeff Evans
You still don't need the cloud. It is not a good way to go at all. All you need is a small safe hidden in your studio. Put the backup drives in there. Even if your house burnt down and was destroyed the safe and its contents would still be there. In Dave's case they either would not have been able to open it or take it away either.
Another smart thing to do is put a heavy duty deadlock on your studio and when you go out you lock it up. I was broken into in 1997 and although yes they took other stuff from the house they could not get into the studio and did not have the means to do it. Most people who are stealing will not have the means to get in through a lock like this. Also a solid door goes a long way as well. So nothing was touched in there at least. Alarm systems also can scare off some people as well.
I still don't understand anyone's objection to cloud storage as an extra layer of protection, especially since you can encrypt your data. Safes have been stolen. Lock boxes have been stolen. I've even heard cases of police and fire crews stealing stuff after a fire or other disaster. It's not likely, but it happens. Burglars find a safe and think they've hit the jackpot, if only they can get it home and open it somehow. Whether or not a safe is waterproof in case of flood is dubious. Fire safes are generally only rated safe for paper, not hard drives. Would you really trust a fireproof safe to keep your data intact with the kind of heat that's going to build up in there? I wouldn't. Another advantage of a cloud backup is that you can start recovering your data faster in the event of a fire than if it were somewhere in a pile of smoldering rubble in a fireproof box (either intact or not). How long before the fire department and/or police allow you access to recover the box or safe? It could days before the structure is deemed safe enough to enter, and even then you're going to have to sift through a pile of charcoal to find it. Need the data faster than that? Simply download it from your cloud account. I don't think there is anything wrong with covering all bases.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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Jeff Evans
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Re: Why you shouldn't trust DROP BOX or online storage sites for your master cakewalk bund
2016/06/19 01:56:01
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I think cloud backup is fine as long as it is a second line of defense, NOT your only backup. Hard drives first then cloud.
Also some of my files are pretty big. How long does it take you to upload say 2 or 3 Gig?
DVD's are fine as a backup but only the standard 4.7 Gig DVD's. Not dual layer or Blue Ray. Not good I believe. I have got DVD's (and CD's) dating back to the late 80's and 90's that are still perfect today. Something people don't know either is there are CD's and DVD's but also mastering grade ones which are way better in terms of error rates and data retention. I used to work for the National Library in Canberra Australia and they still use very high quality CD's for backup. (And analog tape would you believe. Oral History department) They have a life of 150 years! The room they are stored in is at I think 18 degrees C and a certain humidity. I have just kept mine in a cool space for years and they are still perfect.
My friend who is a photographer has got a safe that is fire proof and water proof and probably nuclear explosion proof. No one would ever find it in his studio either, period. No police or fireman could even lift this thing.
A safe is a good idea but you would have to invest in it though. I think keeping backups off site is probably a better option. (and cheaper)
One day someone will hack into the cloud and erase everything just to show it can be done. Only a matter of time. If you think it cannot be done you are deluding yourself.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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sharke
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Re: Why you shouldn't trust DROP BOX or online storage sites for your master cakewalk bund
2016/06/19 02:48:58
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Jeff Evans
I think cloud backup is fine as long as it is a second line of defense, NOT your only backup. Hard drives first then cloud.
Also some of my files are pretty big. How long does it take you to upload say 2 or 3 Gig?
DVD's are fine as a backup but only the standard 4.7 Gig DVD's. Not dual layer or Blue Ray. Not good I believe. I have got DVD's (and CD's) dating back to the late 80's and 90's that are still perfect today. Something people don't know either is there are CD's and DVD's but also mastering grade ones which are way better in terms of error rates and data retention. I used to work for the National Library in Canberra Australia and they still use very high quality CD's for backup. (And analog tape would you believe. Oral History department) They have a life of 150 years! The room they are stored in is at I think 18 degrees C and a certain humidity. I have just kept mine in a cool space for years and they are still perfect.
My friend who is a photographer has got a safe that is fire proof and water proof and probably nuclear explosion proof. No one would ever find it in his studio either, period. No police or fireman could even lift this thing.
A safe is a good idea but you would have to invest in it though. I think keeping backups off site is probably a better option. (and cheaper)
One day someone will hack into the cloud and erase everything just to show it can be done. Only a matter of time. If you think it cannot be done you are deluding yourself.
Which is why neither I, or as far as I can tell anyone else here, has ever suggesting using the cloud as a sole backup method. I just think if you combine physical backups with cloud backups you increase your security exponentially. What are the chances of losing your data in a fire or flood AND having your cloud backups compromised at the same time? I would say: negligible. Whereas the chance of losing your data in a fire or floor OR having your cloud backups compromised is probably very small but not negligible. I appreciate that uploading vast quantities of data takes a long time. But once you've made that initial upload, a good cloud backup service will only sync modified files - you're not going to have to upload all of your data every day. For large initial backups, Crashplan can ship you a drive which you ship back to them with your data. And after that it's pretty much plain sailing. Backups happen automatically in the background. I have Crashplan running all the time and I've never noticed any performance hit or had problems of any kind. And there's another benefit to using a high quality cloud backup like Crashplan - you get access to a version history of files. Have you ever taken a project in a direction that you regretted later? Or made changes to a synth patch in a project that you wished you could turn back the clock on a few weeks later? I do this quite often and it's simply a matter of opening the Crashplan app and selecting an older version of the project from the version history. It's saved my ass on a number of occasions. Sure I could be saving a version history of projects and multiple versions of patches on my hard drive, but it's great to have this happen automatically without having to think about it, and without the file bloat in your project folders.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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Jeff Evans
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Re: Why you shouldn't trust DROP BOX or online storage sites for your master cakewalk bund
2016/06/19 05:35:18
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Thanks James for the info about the cloud backup systems that are available out there. It is good to know more about how they work. My folders tend to get big rather quickly and also I tend to generate a lot of new files each time I work so I am not sure how that would work for me but interesting none the less.
Studio One allows for different versions of a song to be saved even within just one song file so I have got something similar now. It is very good really as you can go back to a previous version very fast. They are all kept too so you are not writing over the top of previous versions.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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Cactus Music
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Re: Why you shouldn't trust DROP BOX or online storage sites for your master cakewalk bund
2016/06/19 11:51:58
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I wonder how reliable Blue Ray disc are for storage. ? I have no idea.
I wouldn't use any burned disks, they are short lived. Pressed disks are more reliable but a burned disk is light sensitive and one little scratch and it's toast. USB storage is inexpensive and should be around for a long time yet.
If your data is priceless then one should not be cheaping out about backups.
I made USB sticks with all our family photos and gave them to most people in my family. We also make sure we each dump phones and cameras to each others computers from time to time.
My sister in law thought she'd lost everything and I reminded her that I had her files. In the end she only lost a half a year, not 8.
What just happened to Dave ( bitflipper) stands as a grim reminder about back ups and off site storage.
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Rimshot
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Re: Why you shouldn't trust DROP BOX or online storage sites for your master cakewalk bund
2016/06/19 12:43:55
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I use Acronis True Image.
It backs up to my external USB drive and also to the cloud.
Everything is checked and double-checks.
I have all my DAW song files as a backup set, all my documents, and all my pics.
I also upload to OneDrive some of the same files just to have them.
Acronis does all of this in the background. I just go in and review the status and reports a couple times a week.
Rimshot Sonar Platinum 64 (Lifer), Studio One V3.5, Notion 6, Steinberg UR44, Zoom R24, Purrrfect Audio Pro Studio DAW (Case: Silent Mid Tower, Power Supply: 600w quiet, Haswell CPU: i7 4790k @ 4.4GHz (8 threads), RAM: 16GB DDR3/1600 , OS drive: 1TB HD, Audio drive: 1TB HD), Windows 10 x64 Anniversary, Equator D5 monitors, Faderport, FP8, Akai MPK261
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bapu
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Re: Why you shouldn't trust DROP BOX or online storage sites for your master cakewalk bund
2016/06/19 14:05:10
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jamesg1213
As a footnote, I wouldn't entirely trust bundle files for back-ups. I went through some back-up DVDs from about 5 years ago recently, and only about half the bundle files would open successfully.
Yup. Bundles are best used as a one way transport to be opened and saved as a true project on the receiving end and discard the bundle after that. They are not a means to be used eons later.
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Jeff Evans
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Re: Why you shouldn't trust DROP BOX or online storage sites for your master cakewalk bund
2016/06/19 17:39:57
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USB sticks are not a reliable form of long term storage so don't go down that path. I have had mine and student USB sticks just die and become unreadable etc. They are too easy to remove from a computer by just yanking them out and although they usually survive sometimes they dont. They are great for shorter term transferring of data from one device to another and on that score they are excellent.
I know many probably won't go down the DVD path either but for me it still works and is very reliable. All you have to do is use quality discs, keep them out of the light and put them in their case so they won't scratch, store them correctly in the right environment and you are good to go. Like I said I have CD's and DVD's that are 20 years and over and they are still perfect today. The drive also needs to be in good shape too.
Another option that my photographer friend uses is the Drobo drive system which is constantly backing up data in the background all the time. That has saved him a few times too.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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BobF
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Re: Why you shouldn't trust DROP BOX or online storage sites for your master cakewalk bund
2016/06/19 17:41:14
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It would be nice to one day have an affordable, reliable media to use for archival purposes.
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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sharke
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Re: Why you shouldn't trust DROP BOX or online storage sites for your master cakewalk bund
2016/06/19 19:10:59
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There's always VHS....lol
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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