gswitz
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Re: Will Sonar integrate with Melodyne 4's new tempo detection?
2016/01/25 07:44:03
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BRuys
Did you find the button that does a more comprehensive tempo scan? I'm not in the studio now, but it's called something like "in depth tempo scan".
Nice one! I did not find this button. I was just looking for proof that it worked fairly well. It does appear to work fairly well. On 3 songs I analyzed it seemed fairly close. I turned on the click and the click seemed inline with the tune. The idea of getting the drums to more tightly match the guitar playing by first recording guitar to a fixed tempo, then analyzing the tempo in Melodyne and pushing it back to the original project definitely interested me. I play along to a fixed tempo drum part fairly often and it does seem a little mechanical. It would be nice if there was the slight variance in the drums that might come from the drummer listening to me as he plays.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Vastman
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Re: Will Sonar integrate with Melodyne 4's new tempo detection?
2016/01/25 20:57:22
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Could someone write out the exact steps to get M4's tempo map into sonar? For example, I'm playing some live piano into Sonar, I have M4 analyze the tempo and can see the nice tempo graphic up top... Now what??? I am clueless... Sonar continues to play whatever tempo (ie, 120) it's set for and is totally out of sync to my freeform piano done without a click. FWIW, even though I upgraded to editor long time ago, I've never gotten around to using Melodyne and just upgraded to Studio4...for the tempo possibilities alone. For this I will learn it! I LOVE not using a click as it is way more emotionally intuitive, playing wise...
So if you were gonna explain to an idiot... what would you say? Someone pointed me to this thread but it doesn't help... Thanks!
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microapp
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Re: Will Sonar integrate with Melodyne 4's new tempo detection?
2016/01/25 21:22:59
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Vastman, I have not had time to do this but there are some videos about Sonar fit to improvisation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnAqjtXglOQThere are more in the Youtube sidebar. AFAIK, you export the Melodyne tempo to MIDI, import into Sonar and use fit to improvisation on the MIDI track. ALso. I have read that you have to use Melodyne standalone in order to do this (not in ARA region mode inside Sonar).
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Vastman
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Re: Will Sonar integrate with Melodyne 4's new tempo detection?
2016/01/25 22:40:46
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microapp
Vastman,
I have not had time to do this but there are some videos about Sonar fit to improvisation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnAqjtXglOQ
There are more in the Youtube sidebar.
AFAIK, you export the Melodyne tempo to MIDI, import into Sonar and use fit to improvisation on the MIDI track. ALso. I have read that you have to use Melodyne standalone in order to do this (not in ARA region mode inside Sonar).
I'm missing something... here's what I've done and it doesn't work: - export the piano as a wav file
- bring up M4studio external desktop program
- load the wav into M4... select all (don't know if this is necessary)
- Click Edit, go to Temp at bottom, click Detect Tempo of Selection
- File export, Tempo map... (entire length) I save it
- Go to Sonar, add midi track (don't know if that's necessary...) File import, Midi
- Select the exported midi track (.mid)
- Sonar LOOKS like it's importing it but nothing happens on the screen, no tempo map appears, and it continues to play at 120 and ignore what ever it invisibly imported. I've also tried to just pull the midi file onto a track or onto the temp map... nothing...
What am I doing wrong? I JUST updated to Manchester... before trying this.
Dana We make the future... Climate Change MusicVastMaschine:SP4L/W10/i74930K/32GB/RME/CAD E100s; The Orchestra! NOVO!/Inspire/BohemianViolin&Cello, ARK1&2,/MinimalCapriccioMaximoSoto/OE1&2, Action&Emotive/Omni2/Tril/RMX/All OrangeTree/Falcon/APE Jugs/Alpha&Bravo/BFD3 & SD3Gravity/DM307/AEON/DM/Damage/Diva/HZebra/Hive/Diversion/VC4/Serum/Alchemy/blablablaSpitfire/8DIO/SL/KH/EW/NI; Shred1&2/AGF,G,M&T Torch&Res&Ren/GD-6; Ibanez SR1200&SR505NOVAX FanFret Tele&Strat
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scook
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Re: Will Sonar integrate with Melodyne 4's new tempo detection?
2016/01/25 23:02:22
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☄ Helpfulby dantarbill 2016/04/14 11:38:43
I do not believe tempo data is imported with a MIDI file. To load tempo data with a MIDI file, the file must be opened using File > Open.
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Vastman
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Re: Will Sonar integrate with Melodyne 4's new tempo detection?
2016/01/25 23:04:08
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Thanks, Scook... I'll give that a try... would be good to lay out how to do. S1v3 has a real nice writeup/pdf from a forum member
see ya in 5 minutes!
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Vastman
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Re: Will Sonar integrate with Melodyne 4's new tempo detection?
2016/01/25 23:14:34
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Well, that doesn't make sense! It opens a new song and indeed inserts the tempo map but now I've gotta copy my piano over from the other song... it works but OY!
If this is how we do it, it's frustrating... but it does seem to work...
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jayson
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Re: Will Sonar integrate with Melodyne 4's new tempo detection?
2016/01/25 23:29:16
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I'm not seeing the export to midi. Think it might be because I'm running the demo version? All I see under Export is WAV and AIFF.
Cheers,
jayson
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Vastman
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Re: Will Sonar integrate with Melodyne 4's new tempo detection?
2016/01/25 23:30:42
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jayson
I'm not seeing the export to midi. Think it might be because I'm running the demo version? All I see under Export is WAV and AIFF.
Cheers,
jayson
This has to be done in the external version of melodyne... kinda clugy...
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Vastman
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Re: Will Sonar integrate with Melodyne 4's new tempo detection?
2016/01/25 23:38:11
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OK, so this is the clugy system that seems to work: - export the piano as a wav file
- bring up M4studio or editor's external desktop program
- load the wav into M4... select all (don't know if this is necessary)
- Click Edit, go to Temp at bottom, click Detect Tempo of Selection
- File export, Tempo map... save it
- Go to Sonar, Go to file open, and select the saved tempo map (the .mid file in "5" above) your essentially opening up a new song
- It will import the tempo map...
- Then you can re-import the wav file melodyne analyzed into this new song.
This is real wacked, especially if you have several live tracks to save and reimport... Studio1 v.3 has a much better/easy/direct ara system per a pdf prepared by a forum member I reviewed while trying to figure this out. Imports directly in the same song into the tempo map. I'm sure the bakers are gonna fix this but it's NOT fixed in Manchester as I'm running it... Thanks, scook
post edited by Vastman - 2016/01/26 00:30:57
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jayson
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Re: Will Sonar integrate with Melodyne 4's new tempo detection?
2016/01/26 00:13:54
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I think I borked my install. E-mail sent to Celemony support.
Cheers,
jayson
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Vastman
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Re: Will Sonar integrate with Melodyne 4's new tempo detection?
2016/01/26 00:14:50
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Just uninstall and reinstall...
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BRuys
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Re: Will Sonar integrate with Melodyne 4's new tempo detection?
2016/01/26 00:35:10
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Vastman
OK, so this is the clugy system that seems to work:
- export the piano as a wav file
- bring up M4studio or editor's external desktop program
- load the wav into M4... select all (don't know if this is necessary)
- Click Edit, go to Temp at bottom, click Detect Tempo of Selection
- File export, Tempo map... save it
- Go to Sonar, Go to file open, and select the saved tempo map (the .mid file in "5" above)
- It will import the tempo map...
- Then you can re-import the wav file melodyne analyzed into this new song.
This is real wacked, especially if you have several live tracks to save and reimport...
Studio1 v.3 has a much better/easy/direct ara system per a pdf prepared by a forum member I reviewed while trying to figure this out. Imports directly in the same song into the tempo map.
I'm sure the bakers are gonna fix this but it's NOT fixed in Manchester as I'm running it...
Thanks, scook
A slight tweak to your recipe above might be to open the exported midi in a new Sonar project, then copy the midi data and paste it into the audio project. From there use "Fit to Improvisation" to pull the tempo into Sonar. That said, the main reason for this thread (self evident in its title), was to ask if this new tempo detecting feature could be integrated into Sonar's ARA plug-in architecture. If they do this, we can hopefully stop jumping flaming hoops to make it work :)
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Vastman
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Re: Will Sonar integrate with Melodyne 4's new tempo detection?
2016/01/26 00:57:19
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☄ Helpfulby BRuys 2016/01/26 02:03:37
BRuys
Vastman
OK, so this is the clugy system that seems to work:
- export the piano as a wav file
- bring up M4studio or editor's external desktop program
- load the wav into M4... select all (don't know if this is necessary)
- Click Edit, go to Temp at bottom, click Detect Tempo of Selection
- File export, Tempo map... save it
- Go to Sonar, Go to file open, and select the saved tempo map (the .mid file in "5" above)
- It will import the tempo map...
- Then you can re-import the wav file melodyne analyzed into this new song.
This is real wacked, especially if you have several live tracks to save and reimport...
Studio1 v.3 has a much better/easy/direct ara system per a pdf prepared by a forum member I reviewed while trying to figure this out. Imports directly in the same song into the tempo map.
I'm sure the bakers are gonna fix this but it's NOT fixed in Manchester as I'm running it...
Thanks, scook
A slight tweak to your recipe above might be to open the exported midi in a new Sonar project, then copy the midi data and paste it into the audio project. From there use "Fit to Improvisation" to pull the tempo into Sonar.
That said, the main reason for this thread (self evident in its title), was to ask if this new tempo detecting feature could be integrated into Sonar's ARA plug-in architecture. If they do this, we can hopefully stop jumping flaming hoops to make it work :)
Yep... that works too! But you don't have to "fit to improvisation"... you just paste it into sonar. just tried it! Would be a better way if you had several live band tracks. Good catch! So here's the alternate: - export the free form piano part or parts as a wav file
- bring up M4studio or editor's external desktop program
- load the wav into M4... select all (don't know if this is necessary)
- Click Edit, go to Temp at bottom, click Detect Tempo of Selection
- File export, Tempo map... save it
- Go to Sonar, Go to file open, and select the saved tempo map (the .mid file in "5" above)
- It will import the tempo map...
- Then you right click and select copy tempo...
- Then go to your original song and carefully paste it in at the beginning... it'll create the tempo map you can view from views. You can delete the midi track or use it for other things.
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BRuys
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Re: Will Sonar integrate with Melodyne 4's new tempo detection?
2016/01/26 02:03:11
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Vastman
Yep... that works too! But you don't have to "fit to improvisation"... you just paste it into sonar. just tried it! Would be a better way if you had several live band tracks. Good catch! So here's the alternate...
Nice work putting together the steps. At least we have a work-around for the time being. Bill.
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Vastman
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Re: Will Sonar integrate with Melodyne 4's new tempo detection?
2016/01/26 02:17:11
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Yea... the big problem with this, aside from it being a lot more work...is the "tempo" functions within Sonar are very crude...so once you bring it in from melodyne... you can't adjust it in melodyne without going thru the process again. Or you're kinda stuck or limited to Sonars cruder tools. If the temp map were immediately available in the daw, within melodyne...you can tweak it easier cause it has better tools/visual feedback. This should be directly transferable to sonar so melodyne can be closed. Further tweaks can be done just by redefining a region and rejiggering it. I think... that's the way it should work.
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BRuys
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Re: Will Sonar integrate with Melodyne 4's new tempo detection?
2016/01/26 03:15:58
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Hey Dana, there is a way to remove your first three steps. That is to add Melodyne to Sonar's 'Utilities' menu. As long as the 'type' is set to 'WaveEditor', Sonar will send the audio clip to the app. Once that's done, you just select a clip, go to Utilities and choose your newly added 'Melodyne' entry in Sonar - this opens Melodyne with the clip already loaded. Just make a new key under HKLM\Software\Cakewalk Music Software\Tools Menu like I have here:  This will shorten the process for you. And if working on your second iteration of your recipe, you keep your original project open, but open the exported midi clip in a new Sonar project, from where you copy it to your existing project. If you're not familiar with or comfortable editing the registry, let me know and I can send you a .reg file that will add it automatically. Bill.
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christian.landstrom
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Re: Will Sonar integrate with Melodyne 4's new tempo detection?
2016/01/26 12:00:48
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" - Then you right click and select copy tempo...
- Then go to your original song and carefully paste it in at the beginning... it'll create the tempo map you can view from views. You can delete the midi track or use it for other things."
Having trouble with the last 2 steps, can you please be a little more specific. Right click where? Copy to where?
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Vastman
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Re: Will Sonar integrate with Melodyne 4's new tempo detection?
2016/01/26 12:08:43
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I'm not at my daw right now but i recall making an empty midi track...hovering at the beginning of it and right clicking and selecting paste. If you are sloppy as i was once...and don't click right on 0, the map will start wherever your cursor is and everything before the cursor will be the tempo of your daw... If that happens just right click and paste again... I'm right pasting the tempo map inn the empty midi track as it's amidi file...Being more careful...That should work. Let me know
post edited by Vastman - 2016/01/26 12:15:21
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frankjcc
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Re: Will Sonar integrate with Melodyne 4's new tempo detection?
2016/01/26 21:57:25
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I tested my delays after listening to the post with the example, and I believe I found one that works. bos digital labs Imperial delay.
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christian.landstrom
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Re: Will Sonar integrate with Melodyne 4's new tempo detection?
2016/01/27 05:08:45
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Thank you Vastman,
Make a miditrack in the original project and paste the tempomap to the that track shoul be easy enough.
Problem now is where do I rightclick to select copy in the project that has the tempomap that I imported from melodyne? Tried to rightclick a little everywhere in Sonar and searching in menus to no avail?
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rebel007
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Re: Will Sonar integrate with Melodyne 4's new tempo detection?
2016/01/27 09:05:42
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Nice. thanks Dana (and everyone else) for taking the time to research and post this.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Will Sonar integrate with Melodyne 4's new tempo detection?
2016/01/27 10:10:28
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☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2016/01/27 17:26:27
Were planning on adding drag drop if tempo data via ARA. This is also possible with melodyne 2, we chose not to implement that area at the time.
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stevec
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Re: Will Sonar integrate with Melodyne 4's new tempo detection?
2016/01/27 23:28:18
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Were planning on adding drag drop if tempo data via ARA. This is also possible with melodyne 2, we chose not to implement that area at the time.
Oooohhh.. Nice!  I've never been that comfortable using free-form performances and converting them to sync-able projects, but this looks like the answer to that one - allowing music to breathe with ARA. Add the ability to select tracks directly in the ARA window (if possible) and it would make for seamless integration between the two.... as though Melodyne was simply another view within SONAR.
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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christian.landstrom
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Re: Will Sonar integrate with Melodyne 4's new tempo detection?
2016/01/28 00:46:22
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Thank you Cakewalk!
Looking forward to drag and drop via ARA. Tried the tempo feature in Melodyne on an old Project and it's close to magic! The workaround is a little tedious right now, thank you everyone in this tread for showing how
(by the way, english is not my native language, I'm Swedish :-)
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stevec
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Re: Will Sonar integrate with Melodyne 4's new tempo detection?
2016/01/28 16:10:40
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Yeah, I've been playing around with that as well. Having Melodyne in the tools menu does help speed things up.
Question: When copying the tempo(s) from the exported MIDI file, did anyone else find that they needed to select along the timeline to get all of the tempo changes? If I didn't do that before copying, what got pasted into the "real" project was just the first tempo.
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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Elffin
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Re: Will Sonar integrate with Melodyne 4's new tempo detection?
2016/02/07 18:07:31
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Looking forward to see developments on this...
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gbowling
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Re: Will Sonar integrate with Melodyne 4's new tempo detection?
2016/02/19 09:16:10
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Is there any way in melodyne 4 studio to edit a detected beat? I know you can edit the tempo, flatten it, or expand it or whatever, but I'm talking about a miss detected beat. Let's say there is a beat melodyne detected as beat 1 when it is actually beat 3 of the previous bar. Similar to sonar's "set measure at beat now" function.
I have some old songs I was trying to build a tempo map for and am trying to learn how to use melodyne for this. There are two places in one of the songs where it says the tempo goes from about 150BPM to about 100 BPM in one bar. Obviously that isn't correct. The result is if you change the tempo or do anything to the tempo in melodyne, that bar gets totally screwed up. The rest of the song is fine.
I can't seem to understand how to manually adjust that bar to move the detected beats. If you edit the tempo map you see a big dip right at that one bar, any attempt to edit the graph at that bar results in it screwing everything up. I need to be able to tell Melodyne that the beat is NOT what it detected.
Melodyne has done away with their forum and only has a FB page, really makes you appreciated this forum!! FB is a terrible way to handle user-user interactions.
gabo
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mettelus
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Re: Will Sonar integrate with Melodyne 4's new tempo detection?
2016/02/19 10:55:13
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Check out the "tempo regions" on this page. It says "Superfluous region divisions:* Sometimes the analysis introduces region divisions where the tempo only slows slightly. These divisions, and the superfluous tempo regions they create, can be deleted. To delete a tempo region, double-click on its vertical handle."
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gbowling
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Re: Will Sonar integrate with Melodyne 4's new tempo detection?
2016/02/19 14:21:53
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Thanks, I've read that page about 50 times and not got it to do exactly what I want. There are so many subtle things you can do and like all these tools it's frustrating when you first start. I got done what I needed to do, but not entirely sure how I did it!! I have to go through that page a bunch more times. Luckily this is a learning day and I'm just working on some throw away things to learn. EDIT: Ah, I was incorrectly thinking that "assign tempo mode" was something you do with the tempo tool from the toolbar. But it's not, there is an "assign tempo" from the dropdown at the top. So, assign tempo lets you move the tempo markers to match the audio without changing the audio. And Edit tempo and the tempo tool lets you move the audio to match the tempo markers and does change the audio. I'm slow but I'm getting there! haha gabo
post edited by gbowling - 2016/02/19 14:54:11
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